League point calculations are whack

Forza Motorsport Legacy Motorsport
1

Anyone able to explain why finishing 7th of 19th only gained me 100 points? Yet someone else who finished far behind me got 1100?

Video of end of race here and points received here: Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.

I know that turn10 decided that you shouldn’t receive points for people that quit a race, i don’t understand why since its basically a griefers wet dream to know that they not only can cause lots of mayhem, if they then quit the race the people that still perceiver and finish won’t get any points for beating them is merely icing on the cake. But i digress, point is i don’t think this logic applies here as only a couple people quit the race (as evident by the 7/19 for my position)

At the end of this race there was 12 people still on the track behind me and getting a measly 100 points after racing 20 odd minutes in a sim league race is quite frankly fudgingly silly and incredibly infuriating. When i queried others in the lobby post-race on what they received, someone in 11th i think it was got 1100 points that race, go figure. They also would not have crossed the line as i barely missed doing so and everyone else was far behind.

Great work turn10, just when i thought things couldn’t get any crazier you pull a rabbit out of the hat… cannot wait for the next one! How about bonus points for hitting every other car in a race? Just in case you’re running out of ideas…

4 Likes
2

Same thing happens to me in leagues. I played like a 4 lap race on a Catalunya track and got like 2200 points after getting wrecked like 5 times and practically DNFing in like 12th place.

Next game was the looooooooong 2 lap night version of Nurburgring and I ran nearly a 100% clean race and finished in like 3rd or 4th place out of like 6-7 people. The race took me like 20-30min and at the end I only got 500 points. I literally turned off my Xbox when I saw my score.

I mentioned this in another thread and like 4 fanboys called me a whiner because T10 works hard and shouldn’t be criticized. Funny thing is, they claim to be top leaderboard players, but in almost every league race I’m in, it’s the wreckers literally wrecking everyone so that they can take 1st and climb the leaderboards; I have experienced this with like 7-10 Top 10 leaderboard players now…it’s annoying how T10 lets the glitches go unfixed for multiple generations of this game and continues to cater to the fanboy trolls.

Game developers need to learn that just because someone plays a game for like 5-10 years does’t make them the most trustworthy best player in the world. Some of these longtime people are the biggest trolls and T10 just gives them w/e they want. T10 needs to start listening to its entire fanbase and not just a select few who pander to their likings.

There are tons of threads on here about the same type of league/leaderboard nonsense, but they wind up getting locked or buried deep away in the forum, never to be answered/solved by T10.

1 Like
3

Why do you even play this game? You are literally on every thread complaining about every single aspect of the game.

Stop voluntarily subjecting yourself to something that is making you so angry. There are many other games out there, find something more to your taste.

7 Likes
4

Or maybe you can not join threads discussing issues with the game? I have replied to threads whose OP brought up issues, I too, have experienced. You are the outlier…if you have not experienced these issues, then do not reply in these threads with useless banter. I’m active in like 4-5 complaint threads out of thousands on this forum…that means I’m active in like half a percent of the threads on this forum, which if my math is correct is not “every thread.”

T10 took my money and gave me a game that is broken, for me. It might work for you, but on my end it’s not working properly. I’m not sure if you understand computers at all, but sometimes software doesn’t work as intended on every system, and sometimes the software contains bugs that act up sometimes for others and not always for everyone. You like the game and it works for you? Cool, but it’s not working right for me and my concerns have yet to be addressed by anyone from T10’s staff. It doesn’t matter if I paid $60 bucks or $60,000 bucks for a product…it has to work as advertised.

5

If that’s what he/she wants to do and isn’t hurting anyone in the process i see no issue with this, it’s his/her choice.

In my experience passionate and caring people fight for the things they feel are worth fighting for, even moreso when it upsets or angers them and this generally leads to making things better for all, including those whom are unaware, too passive or unable to speak up themselves. I’d rather live in a world with these people than one without personally, it’s a small price to pay for progress.

6

Real talk x100. I’m only bringing up my experiences and I welcome other peoples’ experiences, good or bad, as well. It’s how things move along and advance for the better. I just noticed that on most game forums, when someone experiences a problem, the longtime players thrash on them until they leave, and when I saw that happening here I just wanted to mention it.

There are FM6 players with YouTube accounts who have bought every version only to post troll videos online, which is why I mentioned that as an example, because a lot of people reply like “Well i have been here since FM1, so you’re wrong,” and that’s why it means nothing to me. I have been playing halo for like 15 years, but I don’t chastise people who criticize it because they haven’t played as long as me. Everyone’s complaints matter and people shouldn’t criticize them over it. The people complaining about me are literally replying to all my posts trying to repeatedly tell me my complaints don’t matter and why i should stop posting. It’s almost like they’re concern trolls or something.

I just don’t like when someone isn’t having fun and others go “well I’m having fun and I think the game is perfect, so your complaints are meaningless.” That just makes no sense to me.

7

I think something is wrong in the results screen after the race for DNF participants. The first results are correct, but then you got points, if you go further you can see the results of the last race. There I saw that the positions are completely different from the original standings and indeed reflect the points I got for this race. So 100 points says : you’re last. But sometimes I’m last, but then I received a lot of points. Watching on the results list : I’m climbed a lot of places.

Looks like an error…

8

If you’re meaning it’s a display issue it’s not, i did only receive 100 points that race and someone who was behind me whom also DNF’d did get 1100.

But if you’re meaning it’s a calculation error or some sort of ordering issue with the results then i completely agree, it’s like people who DNF (which for sim races is easily more than half the pack) are incorrectly jumbled around at the very end and then given an incorrect number of points accordingly.

If this is true, which i’m growingly confident it is as it happened more than once, then turn10 you really do have some awfully bad programmers plus terrible or non-existant QA processes and should hang your head in shame.

What’s the point of racing in a league which revolves around a simplistic point system when the scoring has been completely botched up. I may as well just drive around wrecking people as currently it seems the points i’ll earn is decided by a coin toss at the end amongst DNF racers - wouldn’t surprise me if people caught onto this long ago and have kept quiet about it so they could abuse it.

After spending 2 hours racing and earning a measily 500 points despite finishing pretty well in 4 separate races due to 3 of them suffering the same issue, i’m needless to say pretty ticked off.

Now its just up to turn10 to quietly try and fix this in an upcoming update which based on the recent trends will see them creating 2-3 even more embarrassing bugs in the process. How the people making these sorts of errors still have jobs at turn10 is beyond belief… perhaps they’ll do better in the banking or financial sectors cough

2 Likes
9

No it’s the second paragraph. Look at the result of the race ‘after’ you received the league points. Then you will see that your position is changed from the original standings direct after the race. I observed this also after several races. The problem is completely in the DNF range. Big question : Will your Truskill ranking also messed up ? I cannot see that at all. But it is possible if this is going wrong, than maybe the rating also.

10

See this post, which explains how league scoring works:

http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postsm429605_posts.aspx#post_429605

4 Likes
11

I had a lot of respect for you as you’re one of the few turn10 people who communicates with players and i love that, but you’ve explained nothing and just shown me why the game has so many unfixed flaws - you must not believe players when they discover potential problems and that sadens me plus loses my respect :frowning:

I’ve read the scoring system long ago and to sum up the parts relevant here its basically:

  1. 100 points per racer you finish ahead of, which is your finishing positon inverted in other words
  2. 100 points extra for each of those racers you finish ahead of that are below your trueskill rating, which you can’t see or tell as a player
  3. You get nothing for racers who do not complete the race or DNF

Now the last one is a little ambiguous and actually not clearly defined in that post - does DNF mean any and all DNF even those still racing or just those who quit before the race ends? I’ve noted that there are two styles of DNF’s in the results, some white some grey meaning there is a difference - whether its a quitter or someone beaten by the bell and didnt cross the line. Common sense should dictate its the latter (ie just quitters who dont count) especially if you’re going to have a 45 second race-end timer on 20+ minute races… but hey perhaps turn10 likes punishing players for actually being part of the community and staying in races til they finish rather than ragequitting so its the former. Either way the maths don’t work though and unlike you i’ll try and explain why this is so.

So riddle me this, if both myself (7th place) and person BEHIND ME (they were actually further down than 11th, upon rewatching i know exactly what position now but to keep them anonymous i’ll just reveal they were somewhere between 13th and 19th) were still on the track and got DNF for not crossing the line in time, how is that he gets 1100 points and i get 100.

Since you might need some hand holding in the logic flaws here, in order to receive 100 there must not have been anyone behind me or in other words i beat no-one (but there was and i did). If one says, oh but they all DNF’d so they count as nothing, then cool keep that in mind for my next bit.

How did another much further behind player whom also DNF’d get 1100?

Remembering that if the above sentance is true then 0 of those points were for those you beat, and so assuming that person also got a default last place amount of 100 points then there is 1000 points for… what exactly? The only remotely possible thing is the bonus points.

Let’s say he/she had the worst trueskill score of all the racers they beat, firstly if i beat no one then so did they, but lets say there is more than one logic flaw here and bonus points still counted for them but not me. The 1000 equates to 10 x 100 so in theory there must have been 10 racers that finished behind said person AND had a lower trueskill score. Problem is with 19 racers and this person finishing 13th to 19th in a race which started with 22 racers in total there simply is not 10 racers that finished behind said person let alone 10 racers with higher trueskill levels - its simply impossible which ever way you carve it. Well unless turn10 has whack calculators that dont acknowledge that 7 is real a number or something just as crazy, it would explain a lot.

I’d like to believe that turn10 still has at least someone who understands this and is empowered to actually acknowledge and get the flaw fixed up but starting to think there is as much chance of that as there is a rabbit visiting my house on easter and hiding chocolate eggs in the garden.

Alternatively flame me and explain where i’ve gone wrong, showing how i rightfully got 100 and the other person 1100 which doesnt break mathematical rules and i’ll happily say i was foolishly wrong and you regain my respect, but right now i expect the silence from anyone in turn10 on this will be deafening… by all means prove me wrong, i dare you if that helps :slight_smile:

1 Like
12

You get 100 bonus points for each player you beat that has a higher TruSkill score than yourself.

Assuming you get 0 points for a DNF, the 100 points you received was from beating a player that has a higher TruSkill rating than you in that race.

If the 11th place driver, out of 22, had a lower TruSkill rating than the 11 drivers behind him, he’d get 1100 bonus pts.

Based on the info RBW Triton provided, that would explain how someone who finishes behind you can score more points in a race.

13

Actually it doesn’t explain it, nice try though.

If you were observant enough to pluck out that there was 22 racers, then you would have also been observant enough to pluck out in the very same post that the other person placed 13th to 19th not 11th.

14

True but what if the game sorts the DNF’s by fastest lap time when awarding points? Was the other player Stinky246 or Owl Capwnn? Since were discussing the points system and not shaming players I think it’s ok to name names. Both finished between 13-19 and would have scored 1100 or more if their TruSkill was lower then everyone else behind them. Not sure how the game treats DNF’s with no best lap time.

Forgive the ugly formatting…
Gamer Tag - Time - Physical Finish - League Finish
Shoober - 1:22.451 - 9 - 6
LOST Reaper - 1:22.473 - 13 - 7
MixBRED - 1:22.763 - 6 - 8
Sirta - 1:22.971 - 7 - 9
Stinky246 - 1:23.697 - 14 - 10
Owl Capwnn - 1:23.834 - 16 - 11
Nismo - 1:24.130 - 15 - 12
CoolRex - 1:24.222 - 8 - 13
Gods Soldier - 1:24.778 - 17 - 14
MTB - 1:25.210 - 10 - 15
nic - 1:25.531 - 19 - 16
F1Dan - 1:30.135 - 11 - 17
DonLesh - z1:22.560 - 12 - 18
E brake - z1:23.051 - 18 - 19
bighead - z1:33.678 - 20 - 20
iBluryface - z1:52.740 - 21 - 21
Viking - zzDNF - 22 - 22

1 Like
15

Mmm interesting theory on the ordering by laptimes!

Unfortunately said person isn’t either of those two and isn’t viking either, those were the people that actually quit the race from memory. Also whilst it may not breach any rules i’m still not comfortable with revealing who it is exactly - sorry i know it makes solving the puzzle more difficult but the good news is your theory is not far off the mark and has given me a thought i otherwise wouldn’t of had and consequently the answer.

It’s alphabetical ordering amongst all the DNF’ers who were still racing when the time runs out!

Freakishly even though my gamertag starts with the letter s, if you order the list you made above alphabetically there is nothing beyond S, so i end up down the very bottom which explains the 100 points for myself. Flowing on from that, the other person would be placed high up enough for the 1100 points to be plausible too.

I also recall for one of the other races that day where i got just a measly 100 points despite finishing quite well, i looked at the “previous results” page once back at the lobby and i was indeed down the very bottom of the list which also aligns to the whole aphabetical thing. I didnt pay much attention to the order of others at the time as it was clear there was an error and i was fed up by that stage. What i can say for sure though is that i paid particular attention to who who finished in front of me and behind me at the end of the race and they weren’t in the correct order on the “previous race” page so i ragequitted… and for any nitpicking smarty pants yes i did wait for everyone to return to the lobby and the change of track visible to be sure it was the actual previous race being displayed not the one prior :slight_smile:

Shaggy SoCal I tip my hat to you sir and award you an imaginary “smarter than a turn10 programmer” trophy for figuring out how the scoring system is botched, and to the turn10 programmer who implemented this bug or well you might want to try calling it a feature feature, i award you this xkcd: Exploits of a Mom and this Bug vs Feature

I guess now i should change my gamertag to aaaaaaaaasirtragetsmoarpointsthisway to maximize the earnings i’ll get when i get a DNF but am still on the track… on the assumption this isnt already stealth fixed in the 108mb update that was pushed out on the day following my original post.

ps - hey turn10, how about giving Shaggy SoCal and myself a unicorn car in FM6 we dont already have? We surely earnt it for this and its not like it would cost any money, its the least you could do! Go on! You know you want to! You could even pick a really horrible one as a bit of a joke… or throw some hilarious livery on a decent one… i know i’d get a chuckle out of it and Shaggy seems like a level headed dude who would too :wink:

2 Likes
16

Thank you for this link.

17

Are you sure the Previous Race screen is showing the race you just left, or the one before? I’m pretty sure the Previous Race screen doesn’t update until everyone is back in the lobby, so if someone still has the checkered flag next to their gamertag in the lobby screen it’s possible that you’re looking at the results from the wrong race.

That said, the points may well be messed up all the same. I don’t give a hoot how many points I receive so I never pay attention to them anyway.

2 Likes
18

I’m sure about that. I wait until everyone is out of the race and the new circuit is available. Also in the Previous Race is not visible who has a clean lap or not.

About points : it doesn’t bother me how many points I get. It’s an indication of how good/worse my race was and gives a little indication if my rating is going up. It’s a pitty that it’s unknown what rating you have and how many you should rise till the next level/division. I have the feeling that a division consists of more little groups. The more I race, the better the match with the other racers is. Also after an bad week, it will be followed by an easy week. If this is true, why not creating more divisions. Then promotion/relegation is more easier and that gives more inspiration.

19

You may not care about the points but the entire point of a league is having a championship over a series, just like other sports such as football.

Would people watch, play and care about which football team made the playoffs if the scoring system during the season was flawed? No… and this is no different.

Having a flawed point system will mean people who do care about the leaderboard, like myself, will simply stop playing if its not accurately giving correct points and that means less racers for you to race against. I’m sure you care about that unless you prefer drivatars over real people :wink:

You’re spot on for the previous lap screen stuff though, observing another race where incorrect points were given the “race results” viewable at the stage you can save the replay (which is correct) at the end of race does NOT match the “previous results” viewable from the lobby afterwards (which is incorrect and seems to be what gets used for point calculations). The DNF’s are all jumbled up and wrong.

Yet another friggen forza bug… great work turn10, great work! slow claps

20

Yeah I’m lost with division placement too. I’m in enthusiast, and went from top 97% to top 9% in one night, all clean races, and I’m still stuck in enthusiast. I don’t get it.