I’m sorry if this might be a stupid question for the experts of this game, but I noticed on both transmissions that I can go pass the red line at the same range on both before the car starts studdering. So what’s really the big difference between these 2 transmissions? (Again, sorry for the nooby question, just a bit curious)
You can change gears quicker using the clutch
what Hilux said:
faster changing the gears,keeping the speed… important difference,especialy in lower classes
When I started in Forza, I used an automatic. Eventually changed to manual. And then to manual with clutch. It’s worth learning. There are a few video tutorials out there that talk about ways to map the buttons to make it easier to learn and adjust to.
I’m about as uncoordinated as they come - but managed to learn it. If I can, anyone can.
If I may ask how is clutch faster? Am I wrong in thinking manual without clutch is akin to a sequential in speed?
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shifts quicker. and, time is speed. and, it aint hard.
I know clutch isn’t hard. I was driving clutch until I did a few tests of manual vs clutch and almost every comparison clutch was a few tenths of a second slower with fastest times. I attributed it to me not being able to shift as fast as manual due to manual being sequential. As most everybody knows sequential gearboxes when done correctly shift faster than a human can working a clutch.
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Hmm, I used manuel no clutch for a few days due to my clutch finger got hurt. I found the opposite to be true. Were you upgrading the clutch when building the car? Maybe then I could see it but thats wasted PI because I never upgrade the clutch
I always upgrade to race clutch. Old habit maybe but I always do.
You keep replying to me like I have never been around the block so to speak. I used clutch for over 2 years before doing my test of clutch vs no clutch manual. My test involved nothing lower than A class and mostly S class to R1 around tracks I knew extremely well for consistency purposes. Granted I never tested any lower class cars so I may have missed the difference there. Over 10 cars with over 10 laps in each configuration. For me manual with no clutch came out faster by tenths on a regular basis and the longer the track the bigger the difference was. I would imagine Nordschleife could hold a time difference of a few seconds in comparison. That is a lot of time.
No I wasn’t lifting off of the gas when shifting up. Why I think I am slower with clutch has to do with operating the clutch button. In my current control set up clutch is LB. Me working the LB button is not quick. In fact I dare say it is slow bordering on cumbersome. I am sure that is where I am losing my time. I need the clutch to not be operated by the thumbs or trigger fingers to be any quicker with the clutch operation. That would require getting the 100 dollar competitive gaming controller. Definitely worth it eventually but not anytime soon for me. To boot my clutch button operation is inconsistent. I can be “fine” for a stretch but then I will, for lack of better words, struggle with it at times. Operating the shoulder buttons has always been a bit of a struggle for me when I am playing thumb stick heavy games. The new controller isn’t as much of a reach to LB from the trigger and my test was done in 4 as well so it may be worth doing a new series of tests. For your information I like my trigger fingers to be on the bottom of the triggers hence the reach to LB as I have to either rotate my wrist to hit LB with the top upper part of my index finger (potentially causing issues with steering input) or do an awkward reach with my left index finger. The reason for this maybe seemingly odd placement is so I can place my thumbs directly on top of the thumb sticks giving better thumb stick authority and less slipping off of the thumb sticks at high thumb stick angles. Hence the struggle with thumb stick input heavy games and the shoulder buttons. So pretty much the only good solutions for me is either modding a controller so I can use my lower 3 fingers (of which I am not willing mod a controller myself,) get the $100 controller that recently got released if I am not mistaken or get a steering and pedal system. The $100 dollar controller is by far, in my opinion, the better option because it is cheaper while not being game specific. If I got a steering and pedal system I would want it to be able to connect to my 1, PC and potentially at least a PS4 as well. The cheaper sets that are capable of that are closer to 500 if not higher.
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All you need to do is swap the clutch with the handbrake which you can do if you go into the in-game controller settings. That way shifting up is simply pressing A+B at the same time with your thumb and shifting down is X+A at the same time. No need to buy the elite controller.
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No I wasn’t lifting off of the gas when shifting up. Why I think I am slower with clutch has to do with operating the clutch button. In my current control set up clutch is LB. Me working the LB button is not quick. In fact I dare say it is slow bordering on cumbersome. I am sure that is where I am losing my time. I need the clutch to not be operated by the thumbs or trigger fingers to be any quicker with the clutch operation. That would require getting the 100 dollar competitive gaming controller. Definitely worth it eventually but not anytime soon for me. To boot my clutch button operation is inconsistent. I can be “fine” for a stretch but then I will, for lack of better words, struggle with it at times. Operating the shoulder buttons has always been a bit of a struggle for me when I am playing thumb stick heavy games. The new controller isn’t as much of a reach to LB from the trigger and my test was done in 4 as well so it may be worth doing a new series of tests. For your information I like my trigger fingers to be on the bottom of the triggers hence the reach to LB as I have to either rotate my wrist to hit LB with the top upper part of my index finger (potentially causing issues with steering input) or do an awkward reach with my left index finger. The reason for this maybe seemingly odd placement is so I can place my thumbs directly on top of the thumb sticks giving better thumb stick authority and less slipping off of the thumb sticks at high thumb stick angles. Hence the struggle with thumb stick input heavy games and the shoulder buttons. So pretty much the only good solutions for me is either modding a controller so I can use my lower 3 fingers (of which I am not willing mod a controller myself,) get the $100 controller that recently got released if I am not mistaken or get a steering and pedal system. The $100 dollar controller is by far, in my opinion, the better option because it is cheaper while not being game specific. If I got a steering and pedal system I would want it to be able to connect to my 1, PC and potentially at least a PS4 as well. The cheaper sets that are capable of that are closer to 500 if not higher.
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All you need to do is swap the clutch with the handbrake which you can do if you go into the in-game controller settings. That way shifting up is simply pressing A+B at the same time with your thumb and shifting down is X+A at the same time. No need to buy the elite controller.
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What he said. That option has been available since FM3. LB for clutch is pretty clunky feeling and messed me up a lot too. It’s a lot easier to be consistent with A button as clutch.
If I am not mistaken that is close to if not the default layout with clutch. I honestly don’t remember if I was still using the default layout but when I first started driving clutch the clutch was assigned to the A button. The A+B combo felt very odd (Edit: not to mention I missed the combo a number of times or hit B on accident when trying to do A+X) so I switched the clutch to LB and A became downshift. I will give A as clutch another go because it has been a long while since I gave it a go (and because I said I would give clutch another go with the new controller anyways) but I did change it to LB from A for a reason.
Buying the elite controller wouldn’t be a bad idea for me due to helping out a great deal with control mapping with a number of games. With thumb stick heavy games there are several odd button reaches. Even though that controller is 100+ it could be worth the money in the long run for 2 reasons. 1. I don’t have a backup should my current one develop an issue and the controller has a lot going for it for about 40 more than a standard. 2. It would help with a lot of games in terms of making the games more playable control wise for me. This is just personal preference to me though.
Sorry about starting the second.
Those 2-3 points, depending upon car, will only yield a very minor engine upgrade at best. That would be a 1st level spark plug for example however most of the time it is equivalent to cooling system or flywheel upgrades. I already do flywheel if I can but is cooling really worth say 2 hp for nearly 10 more pounds in weight? At least the clutch is saving some weight. I’m not trying to debate with you. I am just asking in reference to when the engine upgrades cost a lot in PI and a minor upgrade is worth more than a fully upgraded clutch. Also I would think clutch upgrades have very little to no impact when you are using clutch manual but otherwise is a big deal and thus major upgrade when not. Thus if I may ask how were the comparison tests of manual and clutch manual done with regards to the clutch upgrades?
Never, never, NEVER spend PI on flywheel upgrades…I’d add 10lbs for 2 hp anytime before I’d waste PI on a flywheel, especially on longer straight tracks. And that 4 PI used to upgrade clutches is better spent on handling or horsepower. Anyone that can consistently shift a car up AND down without losing control or lighting up the tires will be faster, all other variables remaining the same.
The AWD’s drag racing are taking advantage of less chance to fry the tires off the line for quicker times, compounded by the traction control engaged. Better launch, less slippage, less overheated tires, quicker times, no big mystery there.
So you think about 2 mph at best in top speed is more worthwhile than about a tenth of a second or more in acceleration to 100? There are very few tracks where the 2mph will come into play much less make a notable impact. On every track the extra tenth+ to 100 will make an impact. In most circumstances flywheel is better than oil cooling upgrades because flywheel upgrades increase acceleration more than oil cooling upgrades do while oil cooling marginally increases top speed while adding weight that kills any potential acceleration gain there may have been if not making you accelerate slower. According to an old F4 video the last upgrades to be making engine wise are flywheel and then oil cooling because both make very small differences. The only time I upgrade the flywheel is when I am maxing a car or when I have 1 or 2 PI left with nothing else to spend it on but oil cooling or flywheel. With 1 PI you will either be adding about 1 or 2 mph to your top end or about .05-.1 improvement to 100 over oil cooling with flywheel.
The clutch upgrades are only better spent elsewhere if you use manual clutch. That needs to be stressed greatly. It also needs to be said that everyone should be trying to move to manual clutch and use the PI from the clutch upgrades elsewhere if they aren’t using manual clutch and are upgrading the clutch. I don’t use manual clutch because I am slower with it for reasons I have said prior in this thread. For me the clutch upgrades are a necessity as a result. As of now I either need a steering pedal system or I need the new competition controller that was recently released for clutch to be faster for me.
Then you aren’t doing it right. The benefit is insane in the lower classes since momentum is key. In the higher classes it’s faster but the benefit isn’t huge. I actually recommend learning clutch in E or D class. Hotlap a car to the best of your ability with regular manual and the do it with clutch. It’ll teach you how much time you can gain when you do it right and how much acceleration you lose when you delay in shifting.
If you’re letting off the gas when up shifting with clutch then you’re losing time. I’m assuming that’s what the issue may be
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I am one of those that doesn’t use clutch. It doesn’t add to the game for me, in fact, for me it becomes a distraction. In the really real world, a clutch isnt a button. It’s a pedal, a pedal that is pressure sensitive just like the gas and brake. Also, as much as i have seen, clutch upgrade, which I almost always upgrade sometime drops as much as 50lbs and reduces shift time quite a bit.
I guess I really think that for example if I do sacrifice the 1-4 PI points on a build, upgrading the clutch and trans, I should absolutely be able to tune to be as fast as anyone using the clutch. I am reluctantly trying to use it since I have been doing alot of building and tuning drag cars. I have raced with a friend through all the forzas and he has always used clutch and I always just had manual on. He pretty much always wins, but I don’t really figure that’s the clutch because he will turn it off and still woop me, lol.
As I said, it should be more of a preference thing than an advantage thing. Especially if I use PI points for the upgrade.
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Clutch is there to add difficultly to the game. Manual shifting is a button? What’s wrong with that? Lol
I know it’s a button too. The shift button. At least there is paddle shift and sequential gear boxes. I understand clutch is added for “difficulty”. I still feel if those that use it and don’t upgrade the clutch to save PI, should have the advantage over me, upgrading and saraficing PI for race clutch, trans, etc.
So for me, it’s a matter of preference. Using the clutch makes it “feel” like a game for me. I know I will be that little bit slower. Oh well.
The ONLY time I would use Manual is for certain cars when I enter Drag races, which in those cases provides a benefit. Other than that…100% Manual w/Clutch. It’s easy to hit the add’l “A”-button for up/down-shifting. It becomes a natural process very quickly.
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take a look at this video,shows the advantage of using m/clutch… Horizon 2
