Responding to you via PM to avoid a repeat of the censure which resulted the last time you engaged me in public debate.
- Don
I guess the first spot to post info shoud be here. We deserve it.
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I frequently find Forza info on places other than these forums. There tends to be more informed discussion here from people who “get” Forzas, but news can be slow in trickling through and official comment and interaction is undeniably sparse here.
The esteem to which I held Turn 10 dropped markedly for me as my viewing and participation in these forums increased.
I’m still excited for Turn 10 products and Forza in general, but I feel community interaction and support could be improved greatly as it seems to be in decline in the current console generation.
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As a (somewhat, partly due to a “in moderation” hex sticking on me after a brush with “the law” a year a go) active user of the community, I must say, I feel somewhat betrayed by T10 and T10’s representatives. There is very little meaningful interaction between the developers and the community, especially amongst the part of the community that is invested in the game the most, and at times it shows in the choices T10 takes during development of their games (see: Dan Greenwalt defending the here quite unpopular choice of not allowing the transfer of vinyl groups and designs between players as a favor to the painters).
And I get we’re a bunch of nagging [Mod edit - WSD - Profanity is against ToS], but it’d be nice to see people from T10 post more often here, really, if anything to feel like they care about us and our opinions and preferences. After all, when you push the angle about Forza being a place for the painters, the tuners and the photographers, you are selling our as much as your work.
At the end of the day the relationship between T10 and the fm.net forums is not dissimilar to that between Polyphony Digital and the GTPlanet userbase; the only difference lies in the fact that the latter is a private forum (although it is, as a matter of fact, the place to go for a Gran Turismo fan), while the former is official. We’d like to think these forums matter more than NeoGAF, and that when T10 goes looking for the voice of the Forza community, the opinions and preferences expressed here matter; maybe not as much as statistics and sales data, but at least a little bit?
You know it’s a problem when one of your mods (or ex-mods?) calls you out on it. Truth is, this community has been dwindling in size and vitality since the days of FM4, and while it is surely not because Helios posted info somewhere other than here, the fact we’re treated the same as NeoGAF users may be the sign of a suboptimal relationship.
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In addition to what has already been said by the obviously concerned fans above, I believe a huge opportunity is being missed by letting the community manage its own. The title Community Team, itself, implies that the members of that team engage with the community and drive interactions to foster excitement and involvement. Now, sure, Turn 10 has done some things to spark the interaction by taking up a presence on Twitch and has provided an uptick in car content with various weekly articles; but, at the core of it all, this community is tattered and worn with hopes of being rescued.
As I brought up a few weeks back when this discussion had been raised, the proof is in the pudding: member participation in news article postings and weekly competitions now turned monthly is at an all-time low. So, to suggest that the Turn 10 Community Team practices a hands-off approach where the members entertain and inform themselves and, instead, staff take up a social digital presence elsewhere is, in my opinion, off-putting.
Ian, I get the strategies associated with segmented marketing and the idea of trying to be accommodating where info appears to be lacking; but, from my perspective right now, I think this is the community that is most in need … right here at the grass’ roots.
Like the early days of the franchise, when Turn 10 builds the community from within, more do come. But, right now, there are a lot of us seemingly straining to hold the roof up and the idea that we are guaranteed consumers who are infinitely excited and not ready to let go is the wrong assumption. Generate the level of excitement and passion in us that you have when you go out to special on-location events and, I promise you, this community will be the word of mouth throughout the internet that brings a larger audience of gamers to the world of Forza.
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To add to Shadow’s post it is no longer the case that preaching here is preaching to the converted. Preaching here is preaching to those wanting to hear some good news and even to those who are currently maybe thinking about skipping FM6. Many comments were made post FM5 that people were done etc.
Of course this is not just Ian’s issue but Turn 10s issue.
And sure spreading information wide is part of a good strategy but it is only one part.
Turn 10 could do worse than either take on what ManteoMax does and flesh it out to the level the powers that be are comfortable with or put something similar out on a regular basis on this site from here until launch, answering some frequently asked quesitons.
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I think people may be mistaking the title community team with fmnet forum team, the forza community is larger than just this forum. I also dont think its very fair singling out Ian, the community team are more than just one person and at least Ian is posting something, rewind a couple of years and you would be hard pressed to find the team posting anything on the forum apart from the official weekly news posts.
It would be nice if everything came here first, if only to swell the forum membership and encourage more participation here, but I also understand that other sites want their chance at exclusive info in return for featuring the game prominently on their websites.
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No news about car clubs, club garages etc etc. Not looking good
T10 still has 3 months to fill this site with daily/weekly info in the respective sections.
I think I did see somewhere that there wouldnt be car clubs, but I cant be sure so dont quote me on it. Keep an eye on filo…I mean Manteomaxes posts as he has bee collating data is the man in the know.
Troubling news. That was one of my favorite aspects of FM4 and FH2.
I was a member of GAF for a long time. Gaf has so many members that chat about 1000s of subjects. Its like a family in some aspects. A lot of the Forza thread is a continuation of that chat. The nature of that forum is for back and forth dialogue, questions and responses, trolling in support of competitive racing games, spill overs from other threads, digression, all sorts of things discussed that make a thread 56 pages. It is not 1000s of prospective fans hands open for new info. Some of it is, but it’s not 56 pages of pure noob Q&A. Many of those guys know more about the details of the game than is exposed here. Especially the regular Forza thread posters, who have been there since day one. This forum, and I like it this way, is not conducive to chit chat and digression, as a matter of fact a lot of the discussion gets pushed into monster FR and wishlist threads that are a chore to sift thru. Gaf is just ONE official thread.
A lot of those people come there as lurkers because they aren’t getting the info from here. Sign up and join into the conversation, stay for years. That was how I started, during FM2 hype. Somehow, I ended up at Gaf.
This is a constructive discussion that I hope leads to a more straight wire flow of info.
– Don, while I do agree on skewed data your example is a bit off on A class as it’s still the most popular of the bunch. The data thing I was talking about the other day, and this example is no fault of the Community Team, but they do remove things then and allude that data said less people do it…no wonder.
– The hopper system is forced by Microsoft. Project CARS (gasp) didn’t want it either but were shut down by MS and Sony, they wanted browsable user hoppers like you find on the PC but were told that wasn’t available. Nothing we can do about that here.
– I don’t think any of the moderators are meaning to say “don’t discuss Forza”. I think it is more that this early on everything turns into a wishlist. We’ve both been there, it’s frustrating.
Not to Don and to clarify on my original post. I seriously don’t care, and neither should you, that Ian or any developer posts on Neogaf or has an active discussion on the game. It’s healthy and benefits the entirety of the game. We all benefit from it, we benefit from Ars Technica, and Gamespot, and IGN, and anyone else getting exclusives and writing articles about the game. More interest means more potential fans, that leads to more money on their end and that gives us (hopefully) a better supported franchise. It also leads to more populated servers, more user content created, and a broader community that isn’t just located here. I really, really don’t mind that. What I do mind is that outside of written articles we receive little to no information on Turn 10’s own website.
Now, I have read this thread over and see a sort of here, not there attitude by people. It doesn’t have to be like that, the flow of information can be at multiple places can’t it?
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My comments were related to Turn 10’s approach to the hopper system, not to the system itself. Heck, in general, I had a more satisfying multiplayer experience with the hoppers than I had with the “CPLs” - particularly FM4’s “Cycled Production” hopper.
I strongly felt at the time - as I still do - that Turn 10 completely dropped the ball on preparing their fans for the change; on how they handled the fans who were upset by it; and on their implementation.
As I said, I understand the desire / need to engage in various areas in an effort to bring new players (yes, customers) to the game. I have no problem with that - clearly, the more players the better.
Helios’ response in this thread, however, just so strongly (in my view) reinforced the perception that Turn 10 Community staff is out-of-touch with their community, I felt it needed to be said (again, as I’ve said it numerous times before this).
- Don
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Totally agree Worm, and I think anyone who understands what you are saying would too. By all means, put the info out there in as many places as possible to build interest and the Forza community. What seems to be at issue, is the info is being posted on other sites rather than or before here. When I look for the latest news on Forza, I come here. I rarely if ever read any of those other sites mentioned, (maybe a bit narrow minded I guess), as I thought this was the official site for Forza. I would expect all the latest info to be posted here first. From what I’m reading here that is not the case. Correct me if I’m wrong in this. I don’t even care how the info comes down. It doesn’t have to be from the community team, allowing the mods to post official announcements is fine with me. Manteo’s post on all the different purchase options and what each entails was great. I think in general what is being asked is that we are already fans of this game and part of the active community. Keep us better informed.
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This was an ongoing discussion and complaint when I was a moderator and still is. They receive the same flow of information that you do and it’s by looking elsewhere or just being informed by Max who somehow grabs all of this on his own as he did before being a moderator. He’s pretty vital to the community and does a lot, way more than I ever would. Thanks Max!
I guess my time here is done. Later.
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Wow… I didn’t know that. Well, bugger…
Irritating that they block, what I and many others think to be, an essential feature.
Its not that they block it as such, as it is “here, use our infrastructure, this is the standardized format we have for xbox live.”
I guess they’re incapable of understanding that such a feature would drastically improve one of (if not their best) first party games.
That’s not how Microsoft works unfortunately. This is heading into another discussion so back OT.