It’s not just filtering, the entire physics switches. With a wheel and keyboard on PC you can tell because the wheel is completely disabled when you press a key on the keyboard. The game is then in keyboard mode and you have keyboard physics. You have to move the wheel a certain amount for it to switch over to wheel mode and enable wheel physics again. The difference just in the ability to keep the car going in a straight line off road, when you’re providing no inputs, is huge, it’s not input filtering that is doing that because there is no input. If you use the d-pad on a controller, I expect you’ll get appropriate input filtering on those button presses, but I wouldn’t expect the game to switch to keyboard physics with the same obvious pause to switch back and forth that you see when it switches between wheel and keyboard physics, I think it will see it all as controller use.
You are probably right. But it’s not about physics. Forza was always famous for same physics for everything and adding helpers above it. I guess you have many stabilizers with gamepad and KB but same physics. And helpers will be different but I don’t know exact formula and haven’t tested PC at all.
I notice if I accelerate with the controller but then steer with the keyboard, the controller’s input is ignored and the car slows down. Whether that means the actual physics are changing, who knows. I don’t think I will change the controls to d-pad manually to try, just in case it messes something up though.
Hi, regarding the braking you described, it sounds like your front brakes are locked which would not let the car turn similar to RL. Just a thought…
Forza doesn’t let you steer properly under hard braking, it isn’t just lock-ups.
Exactly, there is extreme, and I mean EXTREME understeer. The car keeps going almost straight as if you’re not telling it to turn. Remember I’m using the D-pad, so theoretically this should be maximum turning input and yet the car is hardly turning. Also the fact that you’re applying brakes is entirely ignored and the car just keeps plowing off the road and through bushes like there’s no tomorrow.
It must be your dpad. Forza is extremely oversteery on a controller.
It sounds like you’re braking too hard. It’s fake difficulty, in a real race car you brake so hard that people train for it by doing leg presses in the gym. In FH4 you need to brake around the 30% level if you want to be able to turn. Bring up the telemetry so you can see your braking % and try to hit around 30%. It depends on the tune, but you might need to brake a little bit earlier than where the driving line goes red. If you brake too hard, the car won’t turn, and it won’t slow down either.
Ok, hadn’t really noticed. I generally have ABS turned off so braking too late sends me off into the woods or a wall (Edit: tires smoking). Thx
Well it is a known fact that the D Pads are digital, and the sticks are analogue so it would be bad programming to not use the analogue part of an analogue stick. If you use the Vinyl Editor you can choose a colour for example with the analogue stick, and the colours will be chosen from a smooth scrolling movement. If you use the D-Pad you step one colour at a time for precision.
You can fake some of the analogue movement with a D-Pad by allowing it to increment a speed one step at a time, but you cannot replicate an analogue stick perfectly. The stick will always be better for varying slow to fast changes in movements… unless the programmers skip the 0-255 speed variations, and program a set speed 0 or 50%.
Also the menus actually do use the controller settings, because if you mess with the controller settings it can mess your menu up. It means that the D-Pad is digital, and the analogue stick seems to be programmed properly.
I would say that I am right.
Well, Forza of course handles much differently then NFS.
Forza is a racing game with pretty decent driving physics, NFS is an arcade racer with, uhhh…, driving gameplay.
For example the braking thing. The tyres create a certain amount of traction, and you can use that for either braking, accelerating or steering. The more you steer the less you can brake and vice versa. Thats why you need to brake before the corner. Thats how it works in reality and thats how it works in Forza.
Thats absolutley not how it works in NFS. There you can just tip the handbreak, which gets you to drifting and that creates magicaly additional traction as required, allowing you to drift around any corner at any speed. Thats quite entertaining but has nothing to do with physics.
But Forza has an additional layer of automatisation above the physics. If you drive with binary controlls you are driving more or less on autopilot and just chose in which direction you want to go. It wouldn’t be possible to handle the car otherwise. Thats super awesome when you’re driving offroad, but on road it sometimes is a bit wired.
Oh, and drifting here just requires some practise.
Even if you drive with analogue controls in Forza, you are still essentially driving with binary controls, ie. the game only allows some degree of true analogue control. Most of the time if you have a corner coming up, you simply move the stick in that direction. It doesn’t much matter how fast or how much you move the stick, because the speed and angle of steering is determined for you by Forza’s hidden assist. What it does is gives you the illusion that you are fully driving the car, while in reality it’s doing it for you, the hidden assist is like ‘okay, the player moved the stick all the way to the right. But he’s going too fast to do that, so what he really means is something else, and I’ll do that instead’.
Certain things like Threading The Needle are surely easier though with less degree of turning angle.
I rediscovered car games in 2018 with FH3 and FH4 and always thought these drive the best for an arcade style game. For me FH4 is at the top of the arcade physics, below the next sim-arcade games.
I tried to play some new NFS titles or The Crew2 but man… wtf… the entire screen moves around, everything has 10000 colors and bosters and explosions… I can’t really control the car in there, it’s like a big lump of metal that moves in the most arcade-ish style possible.
So no, you can’t really compare NFS with FH4, although they are both arcade.
If Motorsport is not an arcade Horizon is not either. Yes, NFS is an arcade (most of the parts).
FH4 closes the arcade segment, while Motorsport starts the sim one. They are definitely different.
I found a post here on Forza forum where someone describes the issue I’m having. He suggests that maybe it has something to do with controller compatibility.
The issue is your turning angle is limited when driving at speed, but when you slow down to cornering speeds then the front wheel’s turning angle finally increases to a sensible degree for cornering.
So what happens is if you’re driving at speed you cannot make any tight turns until you slow down to cornering speeds and it has nothing to do with losing traction on the front wheels but its due to the game restricting the actual turning angle of the front wheels.
The original post is below:
https://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst152347_Turning-angle-with-and-without-braking.aspx
ER Slow down when cornering then i guess?
I mean the steering is assisted in myriad ways in this game. Get used to it or play another game. It’s always been like this and likely always will be!
Oh and tuning helps! Massively on some cars!
With a wheel you can eliminate that restriction, but it makes it harder not easier, because if you turn the front wheels too far, you’ll just understeer, like in real life. The controller helps you by eliminating the ability to turn the front wheels too far, preventing you from pushing into understeer. The more you turn the front wheels beyond the point of understeer, the less you actually turn, because dynamic friction is lower than static friction.
Do you understand why almost every car starts to lose the rear end if you use the steering assist on a controller on max? I am not sure front grip helper is so good you almost always overload your rear end. Helper must do something else too probably, it’s not just guarding max grip on front wheels and restricting angle.