Hello. I know this isnt first topic about this issue, but i find out something new that wasnt mentioned anywhere else about the issue and spent a lot of time on inwestigating, so lets start;
There is issue with game + Xbox One controller support (or any controller to be precise except driving wheel - gamepads have the problem). THERE IS NO WAY TO TURN WIHTOUT REACHING CORNER SPEED. Sound stupid but problem is turning rate - you cant fully turn your wheels without braking to speed limit for corners - its impossible. Let me get it straight - in real life, or any other simulator, you can drive 100km/h and turn wheels fully (depends of car class, but lets just say we are sitting in Nissan GT-R GT3) - what is gonna happen if we turn wheels at 150km/h or more? We will loose traction on front wheels and tires will start to “scream”. What will happen in Forza Horizon 7? Nothing, beacuse you cant fully turn wheels before reaching down speed dictated at corners by game engine (?) So lets say we have 90 degree hard turn, and we are experienced driver knowing how to take this corner at 70km/h, but Ai drivers are slowing before reaching this corner to 50km/h or even less - we will not be able to fully turn wheels untill we will slow down also to that speed. Issue here is we dont have fully control over car, there is something like forced assist to slow down to speed same as AI bots, like every corner have some speed limit. I ask why? What i have tested ;
Tuned my settings for gamepad (deadzones to 0, stering sensitive to 50 and 100, - found one strange glitch - when changing outer deadzone, inner is changing automaticly with it, so we can set them all to 0 by far) - didnt helped
tuned my car so it would turn easier with higher angle - didnt helped
So please, its definitive some engine hard coded limitation, and need to be disabled or at least there should be option to turn this off. I played lot of racing sims and didnt found that in any of them. I know Forza should be for everyone, but there are enough assists making game easier, this one “assist” is making game harder only and more booring - all races last longer without any sense. Currently i’m redownloading game - last time my nervous didnt last long and i uninstalled game, now i want to give another chance by checking borrowed controler for 5$ if there will be some difference (in NFS 2016… i know its arcade) keyboard and Xbox gamepads also didnt worked well - turning wheels was lasting forever and car had problem with turning, but cheap controler was instantly turning car’s wheel at 100%.
This is something that I too am getting some knowledge on, I will try and reach back to you with a better explanation as to why that mechanic is in play the way you see now,
Good to see someone from the T10 staff take notice. I have issue with this as well - the way control is programmed in the game, it just doesn’t allow you to steer hard and hit apexes. and for some reason, it is tied with braking. I can’t seem to hit the apex at a deep enough angle when I trail-brake into corners, which is what I prefer doing in real life. The steering just seems to turn less as opposed to slowing down (a lot) first, keeping your finger off the brake trigger completely and then turning.
This isn’t the case with other racing games and simulators I’ve played on multuple platforms. I also own PCARS2 on my xbox and its amazing how hard you can push the car and overdrive it. The game lets you live with the consequences, which I was hoping to see in FM7 as well. Please introduce a proper simulation mode and remove ALL ‘hidden’ aids on pad and wheel. Thanks very much.
It is also strange how the game suddenly gives you complete, unrestricted control over the front wheels once you break traction and have to countersteer. I mean it suddenly becomes unusually responsive. The level of response/steering speed for both steering and countersteering should at least be the same or close. The countersteering speed is literally 2-3 times more than the regular steering speed. It’s not like this IRL, so why does the game depict it this way?
Just replying to see what info we get about this. I understand exactly what you are talking about OP. On circuits that are in both FM7 and PCARS2 I can really grip up more and push harder around the corners in PCARS2.
For example, take a GT3 (GTLM) Porsche 911 out on Long Beach in both games and compare. I still play FM7 more often, but I feel like the “corner push” and lack of wheel input at speed has been around since FM2 or FM3.
So is there some info ? I’m tired of Horizon 4 and really bored, wanted to play some real racing game, and FM7 seems to be one of them, but thanks to this issue its unplayable (i hope temponrary).
Though I’m not a developer, I should be able to explain what you’re experiencing. Hopefully this sheds some light on the mechanic.
This is called friction sensitive steering & it’s tied to the speed of the vehicle & friction of the front tires. Essentially it’s an assist that only controller users have & cannot be switched off. It’s the main reason why controller users are so fast & why the game is so easy & good to play on a controller.
What it does is it adjusts the maximum amount of steering angle that you can use at any given speed on a controller in relation to the peak friction of the front tires. In short, it prevents you from understeering, unless if you moved your analog stick all the way to the left, you’d use allthe steering angle the car has & you’d understeer into the wall. Think of it like driving an F1 car, but for every corner you turn the wheel full lock regardless of the speed or sharpness of the corner. That’s what this mechanic is preventing.
How it does this is by limiting the front steering angle of the car at any given speed to give the front tires almost 100% peak friction & optimal grip at all times. This is why controller users are so fast because when you turn you never understeer. You get almost 100% grip constantly. You may think this mechanic slows you down, but that’s incorrect. Without it you’d lose considerable lap time & be much slower. You’d understeer every corner because 100% input would be 1:1 with 100% steering angle of the car.
If you feel you can’t trail brake, put yout rear brake bias further back. That will help massively. Stock cars usually have the brske bias very far forward, which makes it harder to trail brake as you’re putting too much load & pressure on the front tires, which it can’t handle which makes you exceed the peak friction of the tires & in turn the game compensates for you understeering by limiting your steering angle. Again, without it you’d hust plow straight ahead. So in short, when tuning your car, put the brake bias further towards the rear which will help massively.
In short if this mechanic wasn’t in place, every controller user would have issues driving the car.
Wouldn’t make a difference if you were allowed to push the car as hard as possible. The way the system works now you’re away the peak of friction & pretty much all the time getting the optimum front grip that’s possible from the tires. Any more & you’d be pushing the tires past their limit, scrubbing them, increasing tire wear & making your laps slower.
It depends. If you want to be competitive you need to steer precisely and don’t care about it too much (you are precise and game doesn’t need to help you). If you want to test your thumb, try something like Project cars and disable helpers. It’s undrivable with a thumb. I use settings which need much better precision than Forza but it’s probably not much competitive.
I absolutely love the control in PCARS2 and have no issues whatsoever on the pad. It is not at all “undrivable” with the analog stick as you said - quite the opposite. It feels real to me because you get to drive the car “how you want” not how the game wants you to drive. You are also prone to making more mistakes, which means a taller learning curve and more engaging gameplay - just like to learn from mistakes in actual track driving. I love this approach - learning from your mistakes and getting better.
PM me and I can share my PCARS2 pad settings with you. Took me a while to dial them in just right, so takes getting used to. I can write rave reviews about PCARS2 control all day.
Forza should at least offer hardcore simmers a “no assist” option on the pad. I don;t like this front wheel friction assist - I should be able to decide HOW I want to attack corners.
The steering just feels too heavily assisted, not just while steering but also while counter-steering. In fact, steering speed becomes twice as fast while sliding and countersteering… what the…?! All of a sudden you can go to full lock, just like that? It’s weird and not representative of actual driving. There’s no harm in giving the player full control over steering speeds, countersteering speeds, speed sensitivity, etc.
You can adjust outside deadzone to make the car more sensitive to input.
Steering doesn’t become “twice as fast” when counter-steering. Friction & speed sensitive steering either doesn’t apply when counter-steering or it’s dramatically reduced. Animations in Forza aren’t 1:1 unless using the drift suspension.
SIM steering gives more control over your car on a controller especially when transitioning.
If the system was removed, there would be a massive uproar. An option would be nice.
play any other game then. This is the reason Forza is so amazing on a gamepad and all the others fail to see it or think it’s wrong. Well, they are wrong and you are in the minority here.
So why not make this optional? Why Forza Horizon dont have this, eh? It would be much easier to overtake oponents on turns, before apex, - that assis prevents that as all must slow down to turn their wheels for current curve. Now its easy to overtake on straight if you have enough power, much harder to overtake on turns. I havent touched game yet since i started this topic, but played a lot of different racing games (PC2 and FH4) and had no single issue with gamepad. Thing is PC2 is short game, have no destination, FM7 could be great, but with this invisible assist it feel really fake.
That’s good, I love it too. But if you set high steering sensitivity and low speed steering sensitivity (opposite of Forza) it’s not possible to drive it. Small braking while 200+ km/h and a thumb move would send you car to a wall The same for brake and gas, sensitivity must be lower because you don’t control it with a foot. It’s funny how it’s high in Horizon.
I agree with HC mode for Horizon. And probably for “sliding helper” (when you slide, game assists a lot).
The problem with different speed steering is problematic for me too - you are not the real driver.
But many people use even more assists than the game has with everything off. So I am not sure. If you want immerse controls, you need to play different game. If you want assisted driving and Lego, you can play Horizon 4 I love Horizon too but it’s not for the controls.
