How can I become more competitive online?

I started playing Forza on the release day of Forza 1 and since then I have bought each Forza on it’s release day (minus Forza 5). In all the previous years I would always do Circuit races but it seems like this year I do a lot of the ‘fun modes’. Now I’m trying to get back in circuit races and I see that I am absolute rubbish. It seems like all the other cars are faster in a straight line while being able to go through a corner faster. On most of the tracks and classes I’m usually in the top 5-25% (mostly ~20%) in the leaderboards so I don’t understand why I consistently finish in the back of the pack.

Of course there’s always a few guys that take turns 30mph higher than they should so I can beat them out but the other 80% of the field seems to keep pulling away from me. There are a few things I know I need to improve such as staying off of the bump strips in the corners as well as applying the power better in the corners (RWD) to maximize grip. I know that screeching tires equals slower speeds so I’m working on that. However, my main problem is it seems like even when I do run clean laps the other racers are pulling away from me in all parts of the track.

For now I’m racing in B class, manual w/ clutch, simulation steering,brake line on turns, ABS on and the other assists off. The cars I’m using are…

Several STI’s, S2k, M3, Elise, Evo, 240sx/Silvia, Supra, and a few other respectable cars. All of those cars should be very competitive in this class so I don’t think it’s a matter of a poor choice. As far as upgrading goes, I always do brakes, suspension, differential, and tires. My tires upgrade depends on the car (not as much for AWD, thick rears for RWD, etc). Depending on what I have left I’ll usually go with a full exhaust and some other engine mods. Aero depends on the car and what it will be used for (short sprinter, long straights, etc). I rarely do any tuning. Sometimes on my AWD cars I’ll put some more power to the back to counter the understeer but until I get a better understanding I try not to mess with the cars I use for competitive purposes.

I have a background in sporty Japanese cars (currently have a 2013 WRX hatch) which I do all the work on so I’d like to think I at least have a good understanding of the mechanical side of things but I suppose that doesn’t always transfer over to a game.

Besides working on running cleaner laps (less tire spin, stay off the rumble strips, etc), does anyone have any suggestions? I don’t expect to be first but I’m amazed at how I’m consistently out paced.

I won’t have any tips for you, I don’t think. But for what it’s worth, I’m in the very same boat you are. Like what you said for hotlapping. I am running somewhere in the top 10% on most courses I’ve hotlapped at. Give or take some. So I too find myself wondering, how it is that seems like a lot of guys are posting near leaderboard times at almost every race I run on line.

I’m guessing that there’s just a lot of people that race regularly. I also have a suspicion that the majority of those guys run cars that have been tuned for that track. And tuned by somebody that knows what they’re doing. I think. I could be wrong about that though and just rationalizing why I’m so much slower.

I have heard some say that AWD cars just aren’t competitive. So… if you run them a lot, it might be something to be aware of. I’m not sure if it’s true or not. But I do know that AWD adds weight and sometimes the performance of AWD is not enough to offset the weight gain. I think. Like for me a really good car built up to A class is the 92 Ford Escort Cosworth. But I converted it to RWD. I seem to do the best with that car in A class. But I think if it was AWD, I wouldn’t do as well.

I will say this, a lot of those fast guys don’t always run clean laps. So I’m not sure that’s part of the equation. I think it’s actually rare that the really fast guys don’t have a triangle next to their fastest lap. I see them cutting corners all the time. I’ve done it too, but mostly not on purpose. Some of these guys seem to know how much you can get away with, without it slowing you down. Or in fact making you faster. There are certain spots on many tracks that you can take the corners faster by pretty much cutting it right off and not have it slow you down, or upset the car horribly. Turn 3 at Road Atlanta. Turn 1 at Hockenheim. And many many more. Personally, I try to take a corner properly. I don’t always accomplish that. But the fact is I don’t really care if I’m with all the really fast guys. I just want to race well. I try to let all of them pass without taking any out if I’m way up in the starting grid. A few of them are rude. Not always though. I’ll usually take a corner slower and out of the way if I know someone is trying to pass. Unless it’s some jag off that is ramming everyone.

Seems like MOST of the really fast guys are good at staying away from another car. But some don’t have a lot of patience if you’re slower and are on a hard track to pass. Like Montserrat.

Anyways… I’ll try to look for you on line. I have had some fun times online. But sometimes it’s a complete drag.

Take the cars you want to race and check the leaderboards to see what times the fast guys are running. Try getting to within 2-3 seconds of those times. Usually, if you can do that you will be competitive. Watch their replays and race against the ghost whenever possible to see how they’re running the track, what lines they take, throttle and braking, etc.

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Setup seems to be my biggest issue. I can’t figure out for the life of me how to take me own cars. It defaults me to the garage and the full car listing. What I need to do I think is isolate a couple car variants and try to get a decent all around tune for them. You guys are way above my level, but I was hoping to at least finish the race against average competition.

-k

That’s part of my problem too. I feel like a tune will make a massive difference. I’ve been doing some reading and a guy was saying how he did a few laps with his car and then he did a few laps with his car after a friend tuned it and he was several seconds faster.

Ah, the age old question, “How to be competitive racing in Forza?”

I’ll come right out and say that I’m no leaderboard barn burner, I don’t have any top 1000 times. Typically I’m in the top 1-2% depending on track, class, and how much I care. However, I’m competitive online. Not saying I always win, but I can hold my own. So take my advice with that grain of salt in mind.

To start with the easiest to change to the hardest to change.

Car Selection:

The Pi system actually does a pretty good job defining how a car will compete. Cars of similar characteristics will run about the same times all else being equal. But not all the cars are similar, and very few tracks are balanced in what they favor (nor should they be). Put simply, the lightest car wins. Put less simply, the car with the lowest top speed wins. The Pi system overemphasizes top speed, which in most circuit racing is a completely worthless statistic. Light cars usually have low horsepower (for their class) and very good handling. However, the low horsepower combined with the low weight gives them power to weight ratios equal to or better than the heavier high horsepower cars. The end result is that they have higher cornering speed than the heavier cars. They launch off the corner better than the heavier cars, and can brake later at the end of the straight. The speed at the end of the straight maybe lower for the lighter cars, however, the total time for the sector will be less. Ironically the same strengths carry over for muscle cars. Their high aerodynamic drag gives low top speed despite their high horsepower, which allows for more acceleration or handling add-ons.

Whenever I make a user created lobby, I usually put a minimum weight restriction to make car selection more competitive across a broader range of cars. And speaking of competitive, AWD cars quite simply aren’t. T10 basically added a 50-80 Pi penalty to every AWD car in the game after complaints during Forza 3 as to their dominance. On a very tight track you might be able to build a competitive AWD car, but it will be an utterly uphill battle. My suggestion, rip the AWD system out of any car you build if you can. If it can’t be done don’t bother to race the car.

Tuning:

I know there are people that tune their cars for every track. I know there are people that buy tunes for every track. …I am neither, it takes too much time for every car. I personally make a general setup for non aero cars. And a Low, Medium, and High downforce setup for cars with aero. I’m well aware that I’m leaving lap time on the table (my guess is up to a 1.5 seconds for an average track). But since I don’t get paid to play this game…so what. Anyway, when it comes to tuning the easiest way to think about it is managing grip levels front to rear. Stated simply, if you make something softer (usually called compliance) you will add grip to that end of the car. If you make something harder, it will react faster (a good thing to a point since a car can become skittish). The telemetry system is an excellent way to tune a car. Use the tire temperature screen to set your camber, for instance. You’d want the temperature to be as even as possible across the tire through corning. I like to watch replays of my test laps in slow motion to see how the suspension and grip levels are working. But to keep things simple. If the car is understeering (refusing to turn) soften the front in of the car or make the rear end stiffer, in some way. If the car is oversteering (turning to much) stiffen the front of the car or soften the rear of the car, once again is some way. There are multiple ways to accomplish this, unless you have specific questions, I’ll just say you should experiment. And I’ll also say that tuning for yourself is for naught if you can’t drive consistently. Which brings me to the most important part.

Race Craft:

It doesn’t matter what car you use or how it’s tuned if you can’t drive it. Not every fast driver is exploiting physics loopholes in the game (though I did laugh when a friend mine lost all his times when T10 patched the rev banging cars) a lot of them are just faster than you…or me. You get there through practice, like with everything. I’ve recommended to several before that the rivals events are a perfect way to learn fast lines around a track.

The most important part of a track is the straightaways, because you are using the maximum power of the car, whereas everywhere else you are either slowing down or at part throttle. Consequently the most important corner on a race track is the fastest corner leading onto the longest straight (that’s why cars with aero are so fast). The reason why, is because it is harder for a car, any car, to accelerate at high speed as compared to low speed. Thus a mistake on a highspeed corner is more costly than on its low speed counterpart. Take every track and find this most important corner and perfect your line out of, into, and through in that order. Then go to the next fastest corner on the next longest straight and do the same process on and on until you get to the slowest corner on the shortest straight. You’ll find that when you improve in one area you will next to “fix” the previous area you were good at since you are now approaching it at a higher speed than you were, which will alter your line. That is the sport of driving fast. The sport of racing is driving fast with other people.

I don’t use the braking line (turn off ABS, BTW, you’ll gain lots of lap time without it). I find that most who use the braking line are wedded to it despite all claims to the contrary. It is good to be able to know how to take multiple lines through a corner. You will be off line every time you overtake someone and have to alter how you go through the corner because of that. In fact you will more than likely be off line when you are passed (assuming the person did it correctly and didn’t just push you out of the way). I may not be the fastest racer, but I find that I am enormously difficult to pass even by people driving several seconds faster than me because they are not used to passing someone that can take the inside line away and hold it throughout the corner to track out.

The trackday rivals event is a good tool to learn how to drive fast while being off line. I might be able to hold my own and occasionally win in the normal hoppers. However, in the multiclass hoppers I almost always win due to being able to cleanly and quickly get through traffic.

Hope my advice helps.

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Everyone’s experiences may vary, but for me, most Forza multiplayer race lobbies seem to be more about survival than racing. Success in Forza race lobbies seems far too dependent on variables way outside my control that have nothing to do with my driving skill: too often it seems like podium finishes in race lobbies simply default to whoever doesn’t get rammed as badly as others get rammed, whoever doesn’t lag as bad as others lag, or whoever’s console doesn’t lock/freeze - and none of those things are valuable gauges to me for assessing my competitiveness as a virtual race driver…

…So I focus on one thing that I have the most control over: my lap times…

4 factors to competitively fast lap times:

  1. Driver.

  2. Car.

  3. Build.

  4. Tune.

  5. Driver… Race driving technique is the biggest factor in setting fast laps. As the saying goes: “Fix the nut behind the wheel before you try to fix the bolts on the car.”

Hot-lapping, examining replays of faster drivers in action, & chasing faster ghosts can help when searching for faster lines around a track.

Here are some links to resources for polishing up driving skills:

AMG Driving Academy YouTube playlist - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAFA32E4E86B511D2

iRacing Racing School YouTube playlist - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqZLBOpI5JFKebBA_i-SCkGRRypXovWv6

http://www.DrivingFast.net

http://www.TurnFast.com

“Ultimate Speed Secrets: The Complete Guide to High-Performance and Race Driving” by Ross Bentley

  1. Car… Pick the right tool for the job. Some cars are inherently more competitive than other cars in certain classes on certain tracks. It can’t be helped. No matter how much we might love certain cars, they won’t all be competitive in every situation. A Lotus Elise that dominates Laguna Seca isn’t likely to set any records at Le Mans.

  2. Build… How a car is upgraded factors heavily into the car’s situational performance. All power & no handling can make a car rocket down the straights but slog through the turns (which can be handy at tracks like Le Mans & Road America, but can fall far behind at tracks like Infineon & Laguna Seca).

  3. Tune… Tuning can be heavily dependent on driving style & driver preference. The same car with the same build & tune at the same track can yield very different results among different drivers with different driving styles & different preferences. Some drivers put down their fastest laps in cars that are loose & wild. Some drivers put down their fastest laps in cars that are steady with “on rails” grip. Some cars have stubborn behaviors that cannot be completely tuned out, so every tuner & driver just has to adapt as best they can to the car’s characteristics.

There’s no shortcut or substitute for practice and trial-&-error. It can be a very satisfying feeling & a rewarding experience when it all comes together.

Good luck & have fun.

_

When you 1st start racing, you will need to pick a car to race with.
You usually can use that car in the beginning Career Mode to race the lower class races.
Don’t worry about winning, just race and you will earn credits for buying new cars and Upgrade parts.

You don’t need to upgrade cars yet, As you ear Credits you will also earn Affinity credits for the make of the car you are racing.
When you get that car to Level 4 Affinity, you will then get 100% discount on most parts for that car Manufacturer. Then you won’t need very much Credits to uprade to the next Level.

When you enter a Career race and your car is not upgraded high in the class you choose to race “D or C” the game will upgrade for you.

Later when you get more cars, you will be able to race online with upgraded cars.
The Chevy Spark is a great car to race with in the lower classes.
Look for tunes in the Storefront and choose the tunes with 4 Stars.

Check out some of the Racing Leagues where you will meet friends that will help you out.
check in the Forza Tuning Lab and you can even ask for tunes there for you favorite cars.

The 1992 Ford Escort Cossworth is a good 4-wheel drive car

Good luck and happy racing.

Hi, quick question… buy why are u running w/clutch? Is that a common thing? I can’t imagine it being any faster than just manual!
Try normal steering (not sim) and learn to ride no ABS…might help u on the track. And only use braking lines as braking markers…do not follow those lines!

Clutch is faster due to extra acceleration boost after each up shift. The benefits aren’t great though in the highest classes

You clearly don’t race R1 or X Class…

Did you even read my last sentence? I know already R1 and X are more about tune/driving ability than how you prefer to shift. Hence why I added the disclaimer to my opinion. In the majority of classes and probably 85-90% of the cars, clutch is faster.

I am though unsure about the race cars (not prototypes). I remember racing against ghosts using manual and being able to get a little acceleration boost on them down the straights. Im uncertain though if that was due to shift points or possibly downforce.

And yes I know those classes very well. If I recall correctly I finished both classes and the C9 was one of my favorites.

manual/clutch let’s you have more control over you’r gear changing, change your controller setup so your clutch is (A) button and x is down and b is up just make sure you remember a is clutch,
that will make it a bit more easyer, abs is easy with it turned off just dont slam your brakes on, not all corners you have to break for if you think the corner is wide then try full speed or let off,
im not the best but i always give it my best - also 1 last thing remembering each corner will also help you run faster, fuji is my worst lol

Make sure you don’t have any assists on levels that say “Assisted”. Those will slow you down, big time. Also, manual w/ clutch is mainly used because there’s a widely used exploit in the game for it… You don’t have to let off the gas when you shift. It will not damage your clutch, transmission, or engine. You can basically power through your shifts and just hit A+B to upshift while on the power the whole time with no detriment as well as being back on the power as fast as physically possible.

I’m still relatively new to Forza on the 360 and have been driving auto with braking line on. Do you typically need to let off the gas when shifting when not using clutch? My first attempt at manual shifting in Forza ended in hilarity. I had a hard time maintaining a good line.

-k

My first attempts at manual shifting ended the same way :slight_smile: I found that I had to learn to use my middle finger for the brake and my index finger (which is what I’d previously used for braking) for the clutch. It just takes time before it becomes habit. I took an Audi TT for laps around Fujimi and by the time I was halfway through the gearbox was so damaged I couldn’t tell when I’d timed it right anymore so I had to leave it in third gear. However I stuck with it and now it’s become second nature. Between that and using the braking line my laptimes have significantly improved. Stick with it. I do release the gas briefly when shifting, FYI, sometimes with better effect than others.

Forza 4 clutch vs manual vs automatic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMh6iQeVYJI

Just put the clutch on the A button and fat-thumb it and press the up or downshift button at the same time. Unlike a real life car, you do not need to let off the gas if you open the clutch when you shift with manual w/ clutch in Forza.

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In FM3 there was a significant advantage using the clutch over manual, especially in the production cars, you could actually shift faster than the game could. In purpose built race cars that use sequential shifters the advantage was smaller, if any. In FM4 there doesn’t seem to be as big a difference between the two. I tend to use whatever the car naturally has, clutch in the production cars, sequential in the race cars, just for the added immersion. There’s nothing better than tearing up the track in a muscle car with a four speed gearbox using the clutch pedal and my shifter!! I guess if your using a controller, the experience isn’t quite the same.

Bulin, you clearly don’t know Swerve. I can attest that he is extremely competent in ANY class.