Switched to manual shift

Wish I had done this from the start. This was HARD relearning but so far its worth the effort.

I was getting frustrated watching the AI pull away after a corner even though I had done everything right. I just didn’t have any UMPH when I needed it as I had to wait for for car to downshift or floor it and wait for the RPM’s to build. Either way the car ahead of me was leaving me behind and there was nothing to do about it but try and play catch up at the next corner.
I had to turn Damage Off as I kept blowing transmissions by downshifting too soon and I’m still doing it too much. Trying to rely on the sound is tough because I have crappy monitor speakers and I 'm having trouble watching the tach and driving. The next issue was keeping the car upright as I was having to focus on the new buttons so the car was going from kerb to kerb and barrier to barrier or I am looking at the buttons and miss a turn completely or just completely forgetting to shift at all.
Old dogs can learn new tricks but it sometimes takes us longer. Hardest part is remembering TO shift instead of auto and then figuring out when to downshift especially when I’m in a crowd and cannot hear the motor. Best part is its definitely more competitive. Grabbing a gear and having torque available coming out of the corner or heading up a hill is worth the frustration its taking me to learn it. I have noticed I can race in tighter and hang in with a pack and I’ve got some throttle available when I get an opening to pass.

If you haven’t already, try mapping your shift buttons to X and B on the controller. It’s a lot easier. You can also map the clutch to the A button, but it takes some getting used to mashing two buttons at once, especially on the down shift.

First thing I did. I have big enough hands but reaching over wasn’t going to cut it.

I drive in bumper view so the tach and gear indicator is over on the right and I’m trying to train myself to glance at it like I used to do the map on the left before I was familiar with the tracks.

Here are some general tips for using manual w/clutch that I’ve written up for people some time ago, hopefully they’ll be of use to you.

Another bit of info that may help is I suggest changing your in-game audio bias to “Car.” This will make the engine sounds a bit louder than other SFX, which will make it easier to hear when to shift.

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Thanks for pointing this out. I didn’t even know those settings were in there. I have flown R/C helicopters and we have a setting in the transmitter called Exponential which takes some of the sensitivity out of a stick so its not so twitchy feeling.
I set my inside steering axis higher and I seem to like that much better. It eliminated what I called “nosing” where the front would move abruptly left of right with the slightest stick movement. It seemed unrealistic and was really evident in watching a replay.

Nice with the deadzone settings, i will try them later

Geez I don’t even know if I want to try with a clutch. I am just now getting back up to speed from using Auto shift and I’m still zoning out at times with that. I just get these DURRRRR moments when I’m sitting there staring at the screen wondering why I’m getting left behind and then realize I’m at red line and would have blown either the engine or transmission IRL.
Important point is that I am improving my times and keeping the car on the pavement and moving forward. It was literally like starting over for me. I even contemplated abandoning the effort and going back to Auto but the car just seemed sluggish and unresponsive so I kept at it. Even being terrible at it for awhile I was still showing improvement but I was really surprised how adding that to the mix negatively affected my steering and braking.

I will give your setup a try when I get back to the console tonight. How hard can it be to train myself to press yet another button??

Adding clutch into the mix just means you’ve gotta press A at the same time you press X or B. That’s pretty much it. And running clutch will allow you to shift even faster.

Well, my attempt at using a clutch didn’t last very long. I couldn’t figure out a button setup I was comfortable with and it seemed like more of an application of improving my finger dexterity rather than improving my racing. Maybe I’ll visit it again when I am looking for an extra 1/10th of second.

On another note I switched to doing career races on the Hard opponent setting and am getting on the podium. Running at Pro level leaves very little room for error and at Hard theres always a few opponents that are willing to take a dive off the track and even if I bobble a turn a little I can generally catch them again which makes for exciting racing and a decent payout at the end. I guess the only reason I’m worried about CR’s is that my inventory of R series cars is kind of bare as I have focused primarily on buying B’s and A’s and making them into S’s.

Question for someone further along in Career. Is there ever a full race for Cr’s at Nurburgring Nordschleif or is it always just the short section challenges with traffic? Am I missing something else I have to complete before I can do that?
Not really a big fan of those short runs but they are good exercise. I’d rather it be a Touristfarhtin type challenge where the its full length and a mix of several classes both slower and faster like you might find on a typical open Sunday afternoon there.

I don’t recall any career races on the the full Green Hell. What a shame. FM3 had at least a few races on it. Man, I love FM3…

If you really want some races at the 'Ring, I think you have two choices; run with other people online, or set up a custom race with the AI—which is in the same part of the game, so to speak. Go to multiplayer, online, host custom race, then set it to private, and then you can populate with several classes of AI-controlled cars by going through some of the options in the various tabs. Might even be able to independently set the AI difficulty for the different cars, so you can have more and less skilled drivers all in-class. Not sure if they’ll be PI’d-up to your level, though…

…at least, I THINK that’s something you can do. I’ll check that and get back to you folks here with an edit to this post, here in a short while.

Edit: Sorry about that. I looked in your other thread and noticed you mentioned you didn’t have gold… That takes the custom races out of your list of options. What a shame, Turn 10. I had to check again myself to be sure; it’s so stupid that they set it up the way they did… It really should have been so that you could set up custom races without needing online. It should’ve either been another section in career so you could get paid for it, or at least another section in the free play/quick race menu…

As for getting gold, it’s not a terribly bad deal; it isn’t free like online is for PSN, but on the other hand, Gold with Microsoft DOES net you some free games. I think two per month, and sometimes they do double deals, so you could get four games over the course of a month, or some such? Maybe it’s only one per month… Anyway, free games. The games you’re offered are pretty widely varied, as well; there are some serious games, like Formula 1 2013 last month, some shooters like Gears of War and Army of Two, and others like Tomb Raider and Just Cause and who knows what all else… If you’ve got kids of your own or just look after other people’s kids every once in a while, it can be nice to have a wide variety of things they can play, if not for yourself. You might even be able to look around and find yourself a free one month trial card in one of your game cases, in with whatever (increasingly little) literature might’ve come with your games, or one might’ve even been packaged with your console.

For the longest time I didn’t have gold, either; didn’t care about it, didn’t particularly want it. When I was a kid, my father and I played games together; even recently when we get together, we’ll sit down in front of the TV and do that, instead of watching football or baseball; I’m not much of a sports fan, unless there is a motor involved. It’s either a Western, some other Action title, Formula 1 or WRC or some other racing event, or we play a game. Back in the day, it would’ve been Rainbow Six or Goldeneye on the N64. More recently, it’s been HALO on any of the XBoxes, or Forza, or, most recently, Formula 1 2013 (which, now that I got it for free from Gold, I’m ashamed I didn’t pay for it on day one; I’m definitely enjoying it, even if I can’t squeeze any fscking oversteer out of the dsmn cars…if reality for those cars is anything at all like the game, I’m amazed Vettel and co can get the dsmn things around the track, much less at the pace they manage to do it!). He’s the one who picked up the Gold I’ve got; if it hadn’t been for him, I wouldn’t be on the forum, either, probably.

As for using manual with clutch; if you can coordinate your fingers well enough, it is most definitely the way to go. Ease into it, just like you probably did with racing games in general; start out in the slower cars, and as you get to where you can manage them and the controller with the manual with clutch setup, gradually move on up. It can be really difficult to just suddenly go to trying to manage manual with clutch in a high-end car, when you had been using the faux-automatic setup before. If you really mess around with your car’s setup, especially tinkering around in the gearbox, that might help as well. And with the differential settings, on top of that…

When I got it first thing I did was jump into freeplay and a R3 and go to town. I believe they call it “hooning.” I sucked hard but it was fun. I finally got into Career and at first was bored to tears with the F cars but kept at it because I wanted some credits to build something and was really surprised at how driving the slower cars improved my skills even though they were still boring for the most part. I was having the same issues but at a slower pace and giving me more time to react and recover. I found a few short races and kept pounding away at those and leveled up pretty quick only to have a USB stick fail and having to start over after buying a proper HD.

I use the TuneLabs spreadsheet for my Forza tuning needs. I am TERRIBLE with numbers and am not much of a gear head so using that gets me in the ballpark really fast and then I can make adjustments from there and fine tune for the car and what feels good to me. Without it I would be floundering and nowhere near where I am now. I had no clue as to what a differential was doing for me and even though I read all of of the excellent advice thats been posted here, I didn’t know how to translate it to help me or the patience required to work through each step individually. It’s not perfect but it helps me get closer to a starting point that works well and maintains a balance on the cars settings so the front works well with the back and nothing too far out of whack. Still a few settings I have no clue about so I just use what Tunelabs spits out. Like damping, I understand what it is and what it does on real cars but haven’t figured out what it does in my cars so I rely on the Tunelabs settings for the time being.

The extra reaction time is the key to it, when it comes to using the slower cars to learn or hone skills. They’re more forgiving in most respects; a mistake that might put you out of a race in an R3 car, or that might kill you in reality, will likely just leave you with some minor body damage in the F cars—if that, even. Going slightly off-track or into a wall at 120 is different from doing it at just 60 or even 80. I have the hardest time explaining that to my nephews; the fast cars, the LMP cars in particular, may look like they must be easy to drive, and very exciting, what with their 9.9-10.0 handling/braking stats, along with the blistering acceleration and great speed…but without the requisite amount of skill or experience, the familiarity with braking points, turn in points, apexes, and shift timing when you throw in the manual/manual+clutch, they might just be sources of annoyance, a massive grind until you learn how to handle them. It is possible to do, but that’s called ‘doing it the hard way.’ Of course, pretty much every car needs to be treated differently to some extent, anyway, so merely learning how to handle a slower car won’t help immediately. Braking points change from car to car, with braking distance and cornering speeds…turn-in points change, too. Shifting points change drastically, perhaps more so than the others. Especially going from what might be as little as a 3-speed, to what may be as high as a 7 or 8-speed. The key to improving in the faster cars by honing skills in the slower cars, is in learning how to recognize the faster car’s needs based on what you learned in the slower car. It’s in putting what you learn in one place, to work in another. You learn how to drive in one car, apply that knowledge to the next, and then fully learn how to drive that one. Formula 1 has GP2 and Cart to look back to, for learning experience, for instance.

Myself, I have the most fun down in the lower levels. The latest and greatest hypercars usually don’t interest me much, but turning a muscle car into a cornering machine thrills me. It’s strange, maybe, but fighting a Bugatti Veyron around a turn is pure agony for me, but doing basically the same thing in a Chevelle or Cobra is like the best thing ever… I do the majority of my running somewhere around B Class, A Class, though there is a lot of running in S Class and C Class as well. I’m through with the Veyrons, but I’m always ready to play with the McLaren F1s. And of course the wide variety of Japanese AWD machines… Love’em, in any class just about.

I do most of my own tuning, but I’m with you; I’ve not figured everything out, and there are things I don’t touch, but I do tweak other things and can feel it out some. When it comes to working on the transmission, I don’t have an answer for everything…no concrete numbers to suggest, or that even I go with. I set aside all the more technical aspects of it, and just adjust things little by little until I feel like the gears are arranged how the car and the track feel like they want. I tune the final drive such that the last gear is at or just below the rev limiter at the fastest part of the track. Generally, I’m below the rev limiter, even outside the red, playing it perhaps a little too safe for a game. If I were to look more closely at what my tachometer says when I’m drafting someone, I might find I have plenty of room to set the gear up further, after all… First gear, I try to tune so that I only use it at the absolute slowest point on the track—but there may be multiple areas where you’ll dip down that low, go that slow. After that, I try to work it out such that I’m spending the least amount of time shifting gears, but making use of everything I’ve got along the way, by keeping an eye on what speed the car can handle through each turn, how slow I have to dip down to brake into the turn, and how soon I have to shift with current settings as I accelerate out… Typically, I don’t want to be shifting up right before a braking point, because then I have to shift down an extra gear. This might sound like I tune for every track individually, but in all honesty I don’t; I almost always use Mugello for testing and tuning, and have found that usually the transmission settings I use for Mugello translate well to other tracks, including Catalunya and Road Atlanta… This may be simply due to it being a game; the parameters might just come out that way. As for differential settings, I don’t touch them much on Forza 1-4, aside from on AWD machines. On another game I played, I messed with the diff settings far more often. In any case, on AWD machines, if they don’t already have a 55-65% rear bias, I tweak and test, with them usually running a bias in that range at the end of my testing, sometimes going even further to 70% rear bias. Decreasing diff settings on an RWD, in most games, seems to me like it slows the rate at which the power comes on, allowing you more grip to finish your turn and line yourself up, but I could be entirely wrong about that. I usually leave it at 75%, or decrease it from there if I think I need to. I may be going about it in entirely the wrong way.

I also frequently test and tune on the fly. I’ll get in the car, build the car up selecting parts carefully, then I’ll do a quick base tune, setting my suspension up a little stiffer than stock, and finally I’ll take the car to the track—again, my usual testing site is Mugello. Once there, I run a lap and see how the car feels, then start adjusting settings little by little to see what feels better or worse, and put together a tune that way, usually setting aside some laps to set up my camber and gearing. I set my anti-roll bars stiffer than stock, as well; usually, the fronts I have stiffer than the rear, for the ARBs. I probably run less camber than others, but do watch my tire temperatures and try to keep them even across the tire; where I differ from others, is that I usually look at it on the longest straight, rather than in the middle of the most demanding turn…this probably leads to me using a more upright setting, running my tires flatter, seemingly prioritizing straightline performance over cornering performance. I do still try to avoid letting the outside edges of my tires getting hotter than the inside, but at the same time I don’t want the inside edges getting too hot, either. I want the tire green all the way across, with the outside edges on both sides of the car lighter green than the inside edges of the tires. If I were to look closer at it in the middle of the turns, it might not actually be as different from others as I think… Caster, I don’t touch. I can’t wrap my head around it, can’t understand it, so it stays however it is. Aerodynamics, I generally set higher than stock, on those cars that I mount adjustable aero components to. Again, I may be going about it the wrong way, but I usually run more downforce in the rear than in the front. In any case, I tend to prefer a car to oversteer, rather than understeer, and I tend to prefer to alter suspension settings and the center of gravity/balance point, rather than alter camber beyond my usual, or other settings.

Of course, like you said, all of that takes time. Don’t always have that, so the tuning calculators and such do make things quick and painless. I think one tuning calculator or another really helped me when it came to drifting, though. I don’t normally like drifting myself; without a wheel, and with the way I manage the stick controls, drifting is difficult for me. I’m not particularly smooth, I don’t think, and it seems to me that drifting requires better smoothness than I can bring to the table… I’m too twitchy. I can surely acknowledge the car and controller management/control required for drifting, it’s amazing really, both in reality and in-game, and sometimes I can manage it in this game or that, but nothing like a true drifter…

God bless you for driving the muscle cars. I tried a few as they were gifted when I was coming up and I even tried to outfit and tune a Mustang as a friend of mine owns one and while I did see improvement, it just isn’t my style. I seem to only want to drive Porsche’s as I spent $20 on them so I want to get the all the mileage I can out of them. They cost me more than my game disk and I love me some 911’s.

I like the lower classes a lot too. Plenty fast for me and I’m able to get through a race without eating too much barrier. Last week or so I’ve been running an “exercise” of sorts where I set the difficulty down to medium so I still get CR for the win, and then try to run the race as quietly as possible. My normal hooning style I was pitching the cars around and drifting through the corners and standing in the brakes. Its fun but I was watching a Trans Am race on the tube and the announcer noted that he could hear tire squeal from a few of the competitors as they were driving wets instead of race slicks. I drive almost all slicks and make a huge amount of noise in every turn. I watched a replay of mine and switched to the car following me and heard almost no tire noise from it or any other car I switched to. I decided to maybe slow down a bit and pay more attention to the line and using the gears and could tell I was improving speed in the corners and I was driving less as I wasn’t all over the track. On the tighter tracks I also was finding myself in a better setup position for the next turn. The hooning style may have won me races in Forza world but I’d have never made more than a few laps in the real world as I have shredded the tires or just blown them completely.