Really want to start building my own tunes rather than relying on somebody else’s that can’t be modified.
Has anybody used the app from the app store for a base tune with a view to tweaking?
It isn’t any good, stock settings are better.
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I have the app and it IS quite good, cars have great balance with their tunes.
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What do you suggest then to get into tuning?
I have used it in the past as a starting point but, I am doing everything myself this time around. I did try it for comparison and liked my balanced starting point better. Besides it’s more fun and you will learn more doing it on your own. Plenty of tuners on here willing to help especially if you try helping yourself first. If after that you don’t understand something ask. Pretty sure you will get a couple positive responses. These forums are a treasure trove of information on every aspect of tuning. Search and Google search are your friends.
Check out my 1997 BMW M3 in B class or 1970 Corvette Stingray in A class. You might like em. PM me. I’ll make you a tune if you would like adjustments.
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First gold nugget free…
http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst221_Tuning-Guide.aspx
An excellent read that shoulder point you in the right direction. There are other guides, formulas, and threads throughout the FM4, FM5, and FM6 forums.
The calculators give you the same base tune on every car based upon it’s weight and weight bias only. They are programmed to understeer based upon the creators intrepretation of what a car should do and should feel like. How does the creator drive? Is he any good at the game? Does he know what is going on or what adjustments to make when tuning? It isn’t done by the cars characteristics nor by its response to inputs, which is how you should tune a vehicle. It’s an awful way to tune and to learn how to tune, let alone the bad habits it can create for someone that thinks this is what things should feel like.
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I´m sorry but or you don´t have the app yourself or i don´t know where you got this info…
"They are programmed to understeer based upon the creators intrepretation of what a car should do and should feel like. "… really not true.
It doesn´t give you the same tunes and above all, it let´s choose a lot of options before giving you the setting, it has tunes for understeer, oversteer, wet track, and all changes depending on powertrain…
Of course you can then tweak the car yourself, but the tunes from the app are way better than the originals.
“It isn’t done by the cars characteristics nor by its response to inputs, which is how you should tune a vehicle” correct, but it doesn´t make the app tunes wrong, just makes them adaptable after using them first.
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It’s still based on what the creator of the app believes works. Tuning is very subjective and the best tune for yourself is the one you come up with. Every tune has a compromise, corner exit, entry, mid, over/under steer, stability vs speed etc.
The tuning calculator uses parameters than you input based on how the creator tunes the car so it’s effectively his calculations based around weight, distribution and power. Yes you may get to add/remove downforce when you input your settings but it doesn’t take away from the fact that it’s very much a case of if X+Y=A display B.
It’s also not car specific. Example take a Ferrari set your parameters, then take a another car with the same distribution and input identical parameters to the Ferrari you’ll find the results are the same and that’s because like everyone here thinks “the car becomes a forza”. It doesn’t take into consideration information we don’t have and never will, like center of gravity, roll centres and the rest of the vehicle dynamics.
Well, the app states that, the tunings are general and yoy have to adapt them yourself, but they are good tunings and they are correctly based on physics, there is another post on this forum where someone explains equations to calculate suspention and Roll bar values…
Of course you will then need to tweak the tune to match your specific driving traits, but it´s valid and it´s a very useful app.
Regardind the Ferrari example if the tuning is based on weight, power, downforce, tire width, drivetrain, it will be correct, and the app gives diferent results, as weel for gears.
Downforce is taken in account also, and diferentials.
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… No it won’t be correct that’s the point I’m trying to make. The cars might become “Forzas” so theoretically what works for 1 car should work for the rest of the cars with the same spec sheet but that’s not the case.
A tune for a Ferrari 430 won’t be any good for an MR2 in the same way that a tune for a BMW M3 won’t work on a Mercedes C63 AMG. That’s because the roll center, center of gravity, track width and wheel base are different. The tuning calculators are not capable of taking this into account and how can it? It can’t because we’re not given those figures we have to try and figure it out.
@Anthony I respect what you’ve done and the work you’ve put into creating a calculator for people to use, but the statement about the standard settings being “out of sync” once you’ve upgraded isn’t as true as you think. I agree the gearing is just poor with a race box but that’s about it. The rest looking at the figures is plausible as a balance on how T10 think the car should behave. In this sense tuning is entirely subjective hence there are hundreds of formulas or “methods” if you will to work out where everything should be to create a “balance”.
Again I respect what you’ve done, the work you’ve put in is crazy. Do I agree with your statements? Not really, do I think the calculator is a useful tool? That depends how serious you are about tuning and how badly you want to find that extra milli second.
"A tune for a Ferrari 430 won’t be any good for an MR2 in the same way that a tune for a BMW M3 won’t work on a Mercedes C63 AMG. That’s because the roll center, center of gravity, track width and wheel base are different. The tuning calculators are not capable of taking this into account and how can it? It can’t because we’re not given those figures we have to try and figure it out.
"
That is why the app won´t give you the same tune for those cars, that would never happen if you introduce the data right.
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A calculator by its very nature can only provide outputs proportional to the nature of the inputs.
So until we find a way to quantify intangible or non- existent Forza data there is no way to take into account roll- centers, variable geometry suspension dynamics, steering axis inclination, or any of dozens of other realistic physics model data that exist IRL, and most likely don’t exist in Forza anyways. -
If the calculators tunes make every one of your builds arbitrarily understeer then it is my strong belief that you fail not only to grasp the fundamental limitations of the calculator, and it’s intended purpose, but also have no idea how to make the simple adjustments needed to dial out understeer. Keeping in mind that EVERY SINGLE POST I’ve made since the inception of the calculations (approx. LFS/Gran Turismo/2004 era) has stated that the calculator is a STARTING POINT for further tuning, and may not work to everyone’s liking.
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We’ve had this discussion before Worm, if you can even call it a discussion. You continue to tout your opinion as fact, that the calculators are “awful”, based entirely on what? Your experience?
The experiences of others?
Well guess what, you are entitled to YOUR PERSONAL experience.
If you think Forza tuning physics is realistic then it is you who are creating bad habits and sharing awful advice.
Let me share my experience regarding the calcs I’ve created over the years…
The purpose of the calculator was to help people enjoy the game by allowing them an alternate form of tuning, based on realistic relationships of suspension geometry, damper and spring balance relationships that were tweaked within the generic physics boundaries of the game.
It also only provided a starting point for tuning, and follow up custom tuning has always been encouraged.
Having spent over TEN years, and HUNDREDS of personal hours testing, playing, and developing the calcs for each release in the Forza Motorsport series, I have learned many things, and gained many followers, fans, and friends.
Not only in the US but also internationally.
Well over 20 THOUSAND people have downloaded the Forzatune app itself.
Multiple copycats, websites, apps, spreadsheets, and forum posts on the subject of calculator tuning in general can be found.
The calculator doesn’t work for you, fine. You’re not alone. It doesn’t work for everyone.
It especially doesn’t work for people who have taken the time and effort to learn about custom tuning and driving in Forza.
THE CALCULATOR IS A GENERIC TUNER FOR PEOPLE INTERESTED IN A TUNING ALTERNATIVE OR BASIC TUNE.
In this capacity the calculator works for literally thousands of players who have contacted us directly, and/or who have stated so in forums here and elsewhere.
Will the calculator work for you?
Maybe it will, maybe it won’t.
I say make your own and ssessment, build and tune for you, then decide for yourself.
Don’t take my word or the word of any forum troll.
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LOL, okay.
Find where I said this
Feuerdog, pick a track, class, and car and get at me. Do that or you can go back to your little hole that you only come out of to defend something you profit from that also…well it sucks. There is no other way to put it.
AGAIN, you fail to accept the purpose of the app.
You are a better tuner than I am.
You are a faster driver than I am.
Happy now? Cause all this I’m better than you crap is pointless.
I offer an ALTERNATIVE, not the golden egg itself.
How the hell do you expect me to compete with with a custom hand tuned build vs. a GENERIC CALCULATOR TUNE?!
Learning to tune for yourself is always the best way, but some people can’t be bothered learning to tune. For them they have the ALTERNATIVE of buying the calculator.
How are players supposed to learn about tuning by downloading locked tunes? They can’t.
The calculator at least offers them an idea of what a tune can look like and also allows them to tweak and change it as they see fit.
Right or wrong, good or bad, it’s a choice.
Choice is never a bad thing.
I’m not forcing anyone to buy anything.
For several years I didn’t charge anything for the calcs. I even posted a full page of the calculations I used right here on the forums. Guess what, nobody really wanted to do all that work with a calculator, a notepad, and a pencil.
What they wanted was for me to do the work for them.
Some people even offered me cars, paints, and even cash to tune cars for them.
I have been a member of of the Forza community since the very beginning, prior to the release of FM1.
The reason we charged a whopping $1.99 for the app was simple. Time and effort investment.
My personal investment…
- 10 years of experience with all the Forza franchise.
- A small library of gaming/tuning/engineering books that exceeds $500.
- HUNDREDS of hours of personal time invested in testing, tuning, and tweaking calculations that will work for as many cars as possible,…not just one or two.
And this doesn’t include hiring programmers, learning and developing software, and then translating spreadsheet data to functional code.
If you don’t think our time is worth a 2-liter bottle of soda then feel free to not buy it.
But don’t come in here and tell people it doesn’t work and that I’m a scumbag for charging for it.
It does work and our efforts are not worthless.
If they were then we wouldn’t be as successful as we have been.
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He won´t understand that, to all the guys saying here that calculators are bad, StellaStig, one of the best FM players reviewed it on his youtube channel and said it IS quite good.
If you can tune your cars, great!!!Doesn´t make the tune less valid.
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Best around here implies top of the boards.
The build is 90% of the factor, something the calc cant give you.
Tune is 10%, and will never provide settings that are better than average, or work to manipulate the physics.
The unknown factor is the driver. The car needs to be on the limits to notice flaws.
Feuerdog has a vested interest. If he sold 20k copies at $2 and you factor in the usual 30% most digital shopfronts take, he still made $28,000…
[Mod edit WSD - Profanity and implied profanity is against the ToS]
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Thanks for the tips guys, I’ll check out that guide tomorrow and see where we go from there.
In previous Forzas I’ve just got a tune from the marketplace but I want to give it a go myself this time around.
Got a feeling ill be on here quite a bit.
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Your welcome and good luck