FM Update 5.0 overview - Nordschleife and Ringer Tour

[PJTierney]

@opudalo1337

@PJTierney

Most studios try to make the best and most enjoyable games they can, but actually doing that is really hard because you can’t predict how the public will react 3-6 years down the line from you (the designers) coming up with your ideas. That’s on top of the genuinely difficult process of making a shippable product in the first place.

For all we know there were some great ideas on the table for Forza Motorsport and most of them either didn’t get approved (by leads at Turn 10 or Microsoft) or the studio couldn’t make them work and what were left with was… y’know…

So T10 and Microsoft just chose not to make a great game.

Without being inside the studio it’s hard to tell.

• Maybe some good ideas got denied.

• Maybe some good ideas had too many bugs and the game had to be ripped open.

• Maybe there was some significant studio issues (not impossible, COVID affected the entire industry for 2 years) and some ideas had to be cut due to scope.

• Maybe some key people were laid off before work could be complete (Microsoft has laid off thousands of people over the last 12 months).

We know for a fact that the game was delayed at least once, as it was initially slated for a Spring 2023 release before coming out in October.

That leads me to believe there were some critical issues during the latter half of development. That could go some way towards explaining why the game launched in such a buggy state, and why some features are barebones and others are absent.

This industry is too precarious and competitive for somebody to willingly release a bad game, so I choose to believe that the studio leads thought they were making something better than before, but misread their potential audience’s expectations. By the time that was clear (the day Builders Cup was revealed) it was already 2 years too late to do anything significant about it.

The fact that a “plan B” was released within days of the game launching leads me to believe there was a late band-aid contingency plan devised between reveal and launch, as there’s no way the studio could have decided to radically alter their headline progression system based on Day 1 impressions.

Fundamentally changing the progression system and economy of the game takes months of research, balancing and iteration, which is why we’re not seeing anything for it in Update 5 (and probably not Update 6 or 7 either).

[Operator1]

LOL wow… just… what?

@PJTierney

Fun fact: The Forza Motorsport series has had twice as many years without a lobby browser (13) than it has with one (6).

Fun fact: that & many other popular features have been so frequently requested since their disappearance that maybe the studio might want to take heed.

When consumers clearly & repeatedly say “do this & we’ll throw more money at you,” it kinda takes some of the mystery out of how to sell more.

When consumers clearly & repeatedly say “we’ll stop throwing money at you if you keep taking away things we like,” it kinda takes some of the mystery out of why sales & engagement are falling.

There’s an old saying/quote:
“Success leaves clues.”
…so does failure.

@PJTierney

You can’t just “whip up” a great game on demand

“Whip up on demand?”
Taking so many years to get it this wrong is clearly, uh, marching to the beat of a different drummer (to put it kindly).

@PJTierney

Most studios try to make the best and most enjoyable games they can, but actually doing that is really hard because you can’t predict how the public will react 3-6 years down the line from you (the designers) coming up with your ideas. That’s on top of the genuinely difficult process of making a shippable product in the first place.

Games being high quality or low quality is not a roll-of-the-dice gamble.

Games being popular can be a bit more speculative,
but after 18+ years working on this series, this studio should be nearly omniscient about their audience & genre.

After all this time, they’ve had enormous amounts of feedback, suggestions, requests, & player data collected…
…but what they’ve delivered goes against nearly everything that makes sense (to most).

Lots of things are “really hard” for those who lack the relevant expertise & experience.
That’s why there are professionals - people who have the relevant expertise & experience to perform a job/task well.
After professionals have worked on the same thing for 18+ years, they should be exceptionally good at it.
…At the very least, they should be improving/progressing instead of declining/backsliding.

@PJTierney

For all we know there were some great ideas on the table for Forza Motorsport and most of them either didn’t get approved (by leads at Turn 10 or Microsoft)

If decision-makers rejected good ideas & approved bad ideas, then that’s all the more reason to make it unmistakably clear that those decision-makers made bad decisions.
…Defending them & coddling them with undeserved praise+awards only helps them justify their bad decisions - along with their follow-up decision to continue making more bad decisions.

There’s no excuse for missing so much low-hanging fruit.

[AnakalaRon]

T10 could have just upgraded and updated FM7. Given the garage an upgrade. Given other parts updates and upgrades. They could have made the sideways upgrade of FM7 into an actual upwards upgrade and made the new Motorsport into a winner from day one. And it would have been ready long ago.

[opencamswrx]

Ehh… Big budget studios. Many do it, thinking they will get away with it because they have the corporate budget to do so.

This time though I think the backlash has given them something to worry about.

Either way, all I care about is the game improving, that’s it. Could care less about all the corporate mumbo jumbo and BS industry politics.

[opudalo1337]

I don’t really care about their internal affairs that much anymore tbh. As I mentioned before, it’s very exhausting to be a Forza fan and, to quote someone from this forum, “it feels like an abusive relationship”. What you don’t do in such relationship is keep lying to yourself that it will get better or that the other person (company) didn’t mean it. Maybe it will get better but I personally am running out of time to experience that because of certain geopolitical events in my country.

Just a reminder: they started working on FRR back in FM7 and had some version of it and they kept it only to 1 hopper because it was WIP. Now 5 or 6 years later it’s roughly in the same state as it was in FM7 and tells me they weren’t really working on it that hard and simply robbed us from the improvements it provided just so they could sell the next game better.

I’ll do some laps in rivals on Nordschleife if it comes out fast enough but I don’t expect the public multiplayer to get much better. And if I have to participate in some leagues just to have a good race - I’d rather just put that time and energy into ACC.

[Emanym66]

The fact that you are in the industry makes this all seem possible.As always with most of your posts,you give a balanced insight into how the game industry works,its nice to read rather than just a rant like some of the posts on here.

[PJTierney]

@Emanym66

The fact that you are in the industry makes this all seem possible.As always with most of your posts,you give a balanced insight into how the game industry works,its nice to read rather than just a rant like some of the posts on here.

Thanks.

I’m not trying to defend or make excuses for Turn 10 (the game clearly looks like it needed another year in the oven), just trying to make reasonable guesses as to why things have gone so wrong, based on what I’ve seen for other games.

As posted much higher up in this thread, there’s tons of things I am personally not happy are broken/missing (livery editor is unusable, I’ve not painted a single car in this game), so they’re not getting a free pass from me either

[Emanym66]

I dont see your post as defending T10,just an unbiased opinion offering an informed view on the situation,much like the majority of your posts over on GTplanet with GT7.

[AdmPatate]

There’s already a global currency, and I truly cannot see the point of adding another. Don’t get me wrong, I would take global CP over car CP, but that’s still like a band-aid on a heart attack. It’s better than nothing, but it just isn’t that helpful.

[LuculentPigeon8]

They just need to bring back credits and the FM4 affinity system so people can tune any car but grind for additional discounts. That way everyone is happy. Or should be.

[JoeDiesle]

I was happy with forza 7 currency I have over four hundred million credits

[D4rkRaC3R]

I can’t wait to this pacth. Come on!

[Staffy2]

I don’t like Nord track🥲

[slatts4211]

No Mount Panorama. As the native Australian language is banned on this site I wont tell you what I actually think, but Tuesday must be the day Turn 10 meets. They will see you then.

[im2fast4u711]

This game is an updated fm7, its just they chose to downgrade it heavily.

[anon20000763]

So when in February are we expecting this update t10?

[PizzaEnjoyer685]

Text from original post:

@T10ManteoMax

Update 5.0 will be available for download in February for content starting on February 14th.

With content starting on the usual Thursday (Feb 15th), the update releases the Tuesday before (Feb 13th), that’s how it’s been happening so far.

[SKILLICIOUS]

Sorry the question, but what turn10 doing all these years? This game is not even a beta with all those bugs and glitches. Now i know why we dont saw any gamplay videos before lunch. Selling a pre Beta for fullprice is a straight punch in your fans faces. Update this game more frequently.

[X3R_Monkey]

Agreed. And to be fair I feel like the game gets off easy, the slander is kept low and that shows how unpopular Forza Motorsport is. Most people who come here to post and read are core fans, the majority of people have moved on. At least for now.

[SKILLICIOUS]

Yes thats true. It is so sad what they have done with forza. Im a fan since forza1 and we all saw the progress of forza and how they climb to the top of the simcade racing games. Now we see the “straight fall” of this game. I dont know what wrong with turn 10 but this game got no Quality anymore… and at last - they hide this bugfest till the last moment and all media still hype this game. I cant understand this.