Perhaps you’ve just nailed the problem. Developing for wheel is doable, developing for controller is doable but developing a game that’s great on both is where developers appear to struggle due to the differences between them. Maybe the ultimate solution would require the player to select their devise at install so the coding is specific rather than generic.
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I’m also on the idea of dumbed down physics. It seems Forza 4 was at the top on simulation physics and force feedback in my opinion. Then it happened and they released horizon on us and that’s when Forza put it in reverse. The game was playable with a wheel but it was very twitchy on tire grip so drifting was an issue to be smooth. All cars had f1 braking and the annoying zoom in when the brakes are applied is very very annoying. Force feedback was sloppy in that game as well.
Now all the Forza releases on Xbox one feel atrocious with a gaming wheel and still have the horizon physics. Now in real life you do feel a good amount of information in the wheel. You get some vibrations when the wheels are spinning or locking up. The big deal is the force of the front tires. If you turn in one direction then quickly flick to the opposite direction and your tires start to slip the wheels want to continue in the direction that they were going while the rear is stepping out… so the steering wheel will turn opposite lock for you. In the new Forzas this is not even modeled in the game. The only force feedback I get from a $800 wheel is identical to a $60 rubber band wheel. The wheel in the game just wants to keep your wheel pointing straight 100% of the time making it near impossible to keep from sliding out because countersteering takes a lot of effort to do when the game should do it by itself.
EDIT: The feel of a car does depend on suspension geometry and what power steering the car has. None is raw like a race car
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And beleive me you’ll be told again, that’s not true at all, go try out the LFS demo on pc and you’ll see.
Power steering should NEVER try to be simulated by the game, for one consumer wheels are not strong enough to begin with so the pretty much already have it, but we can also adjust the FFB scale anyway.
That seems/sounds a bit rediculous don’t you think? I mean both devices are controlling the exact same physics, one is given filters/aid to help control the vehicle and the other is given tactile info to help control the vehicle. Changing how the tactile feedback is calculated should have no impact whatsoever on the other device as nothing is being changed with the physics or the filters/aids.
Last time I played GT they didn’t seem to have an issue, im interested to see how PCars2 turns out too.
This Demo can’t come soon enough…
This is why i believe the reason forza feels so good on the controller is not due to its physics but the filters/aids added to it. When we use a wheel those filters arent in play and the results are what wheel users have been complaining about for the past few years.
I dont think much has changed from their physics engine in quite some time tbh. Its easier to just tweak the controls to “feel” a certain way rather than change the physics. I think theyve tried to do the same with the ffb, theyre trying to tweak an existing possibly dated engine to suit modern ffb wheels without much success. Having a 2 year turnaround doesnt exactly allow for major changes to any game nevermind a game with loads of content like forza.
Only time will tell as usual. Theres a lot of competition this fall and although i will get all these games i havent preordered anything yet. Forza has been my favorite racing franchise for a long time, its always ticked a lot of boxes for me. But now that i mostly use a wheel rather than a controller it doesnt tick the most important box for me which is fun.
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I feel exactly the same.
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I believe the ffb in apex is better than fm6… If fm7 matches or exceeds the feel of apex I will be content but im hoping they surprise us all. Have to wait and see!
It needs to exceed it massively. Though Apex felt better on a wheel, it’s still felt like a Version 1.2 compared to FM6.
I think it shows how much people care about the wheel and FFB in Forza considering this thread is one of if not the biggest thread on the FM7 sub-section (apart from the wishlists)
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The size of the thread means nothing. It’s the same people posting over and over again.
Its views chief not posts. A lot more people have wheels now then they had in the past so ffb is more important than ever in a racing title especially one trying to make the jump to pc.
Yeah, it’s not as if you can inflate the number of views.
The FFB i the reason I stopped playing 6 once I got a wheel for the Xbone. I felt that the FFB with the old xbox 360 wheel on fm4 was actually better. I moved over to other games to get the most out of what I have. I pre-ordered fm6 with the LE system bundle. Unless I hear that the FFB and physics are fixed, I don’t think I’m even going to get fm7. This is a key factor to me. There is too much other solid competition out there right now for them to ignore this elephant.
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This echos my thoughts and feelings. I have used a wheel since Forza Motorsport 2.
Some of my best racing days were with the Microsoft FFB official wheel and Forza 4. That magic has not been replicated in a FM game since then.
I feel most people in this thread feel the same hence its length and amount of views. We are here because we care, its like an intervention.
We are speaking up because we know Forza can do better and we want it more than ever.
Some have said instead of complaining we should just leave and go elsewhere.
I am a huge Forza fan but just feel a little burnt out with the franchise. For me Forza 5 & 6 was a waste of money, i check the Forums daily to get an idea on what to expect from Forza 7 whether i buy on day one or in 6 months time. Ultimately the forum will help me to decide either way.
At the moment i am in the “wait & see” camp. Mainly due to poor FFB & wheel feel, lack of “Motorsportness”, rules and samey content.
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Ignore them, whinge up a storm as much as you like in here about the FFB.
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What so you think the maybe 10 of us regular posters in this thread have viewed it 7-800 times each? Get real mate
This thread AND the fm6 wheel thread are among the most viewed because this topic is a big concern for alot of people.
I didn’t say that. I’ve viewed it many times myself, and I couldn’t care less about the FFB or hand animation. It’s still contributes to the count.
Either way, whether it be views or posts, this is one of the biggest threads/most viewed threads because it’s a one of the biggest problems that many players are praying that it gets fixed.
Yes, only Wheel users have such a big problem with forza motorsport. Most of us wheel users started forza with controller. And it was our favourite game and it still would be, if we would use the controller. People should remember where they came from. What was so good in FM that we started to love it? Racing together, painting, tuning, drive your favourite car and so s on. I remember all that and sometimes i take my controller and play it like in old times.
But… FFB is still bad. COME ON TURN10, DO SOMETHING!!! 
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We’ll have to agree to disagree. This forum represents a minute proportion of people that play the game.
The game is already done. Perhaps PC2 would be better suited to your needs?
This same thread/complaint exists in other places/forums. GTPlanet etc.
Just because you, or someone else doesnt notice or think its a problem, doesnt mean it isnt.
Brand loyalty is dumb. We all want the FM to be the best it can be and sometimes that means admitting some hard truths.
Some things arent as good, up to the same standard expected, as it/they should be.
We can all like a product and still criticize said product we like. Amazing, I know.
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