So folks, I thought its high time we had a casual discussion on the strengths of both F5 and 6 sound design, the things 6 might have done better and perhaps, a little bit of constructive feedback for the devs from us old-time fans.
This is not a wishlist or complaint thread and one that I hope remains open for discussion sake. So fellas, no complaining or tainting the franchise.
Now… I’ve been increasingly spending more time going back to F5 when I’m taking a break from F6 or H2. And it is very hard to ignore the fact that there are many positive traits in Forza 5’s sound design that did not carry over to 6.
I.e. how the pitch and tone of the motor and exhaust continuously changes as you get closer to redlining the engine, how the car’s sound bounces off tunnel walls and the environment, the wind and road noise effect, ambient sounds etc.
F6 really does a good job of making exhaust pops and crackles more audible and realistic this time; however, compared to 5, the engines and exhausts sound a bit basic and linear. The same level of clarity, prominence, and sheer visceral detail is not to be found in F6. Another example: when you pan your head 45 degrees either way in the cockpit view in F5, you hear the engine volume getting louder. Or how the car’s tone and pitch changes when it shoots past the camera as you hear the exhaust more afterwards. Brilliant! I have seen countless car review videos in HD, I’ve spent time with some of these cars hanging out with friends who own them, and have had the chance to test out a few. I can’t say enough positive things about how SPOT ON Forza 5’s car sounds are. It truly shows off the kind of creative talent that comes out of T10 studios and what the X1 is capable of.
I can go on and on about how the soul of each car is beautifully recreated in F5’s sound and how 6 feels a bit dumbed down and synthesized, but I know the devs had a very good reason for scaling back the audio mix, quality, depth… whatever you want to call it. With so many cars on track and night as well as weather, it must be tough keeping it together at 60 fps and 1080p.
Just earlier today, I could not get enough of the P1, 350Z, Supra or F12 in Forza 5 - the level of detail you hear in every engine and exhaust note plus the doppler effects… I really hope the devs consider bringing this audio design back in F7 plus more improvements. I can’t even begin to tell you how wide I’m smiling as the mids, highs and lows on my sound system come alive with unrelenting detail.
Thanks for reading. Do share your thoughts on what you feel was noticeably better in F5’s audio that should have been represented in F6 as well. Discuss away.
Hey, thanks for chiming in! “Detail” being the key word here. I do find FM6 engine audio very impressive, especially given how many games and sims have gotten car sounds wrong over the years. However, the moment I pop in F5, it’s a on a whole new level. Just leaves me stunned and I have to remind myself it’s just a game I’m playing, not an actual car. lol
The cars just sound so natural, true to their real-life character and non-digitized. Honestly, they do not sound like a collection of 1s and 0s, but actual recordings cleaned out and represented in vivid mind-blowing detail.
I’ve found that in cockpit view, car sounds in firza6 are exceptionally good, including such things as tunel, under bridge passes, being close to high walls - such as Daytona, Indianapolis, grass sounds, stones hitting underside of race cars, or those cars that where I’ve stripped the weight down by choosing acid dipped bodies, and gear changes, exhaust note changes as cars get close to red-lining etc.
Forza 5 does have the edge in some circumstances, and visa-versa, but overall… I’m quite happy with this iteration of the franchise.
I’m certain there are areas where things could have been better, but like the OP, I enjoy both Forza 5 & 6 equally…but I will take a closer note of how the various sounds appear In each game… Even if it’s just to report back my personal findings, in order to continue a civil, constructive conversation about the franchise.
^^ Forza 6 does bring a number of audio improvements to the table; however, there were certain aspects (as we’ve discussed) that were done remarkably well and perhaps should have been improved upon rather than ditched completely - the visceral character in exhaust pitch and tone, exhaust sound mercilessly bouncing off tunnel walls and barriers, better use of doppler, more distinction going from first person to third person etc. Forza 5 also seemed to mimic exhaust upgrade sounds better. Let’s not overlook road and wind noise, which is hardly audible in F6. I personally feel the sound of objects and overhead bridges whooshing past you was done better in F5, including hovering choppers, but that could be down to personal preference more than anything else.
I just love Forza 6; have stuck with the franchise since FM2 and have not been disappointed once. I just wish you could take the best audio elements from F4 and 5 and paste them right into 6! As another quick example, lets take the SLS AMG - it sounded mind-blowing in F4, much like the real-life version… that fierce and untamed signature AMG growl. They took the sound in F5, cleaned it up and retained most of the character, though not quite as unrelenting as the F4 sample. In F6, it sounds almost artificial and synthesized. It left a bit of a question mark on my face, as this was the case with several other cars where the engine/exhaust notes generally felt toned down to a more basic level.
It got me thinking - do I want to settle for less detailed car audio to have more tracks, more cars, weather and night? Well, I’m a sucker for quality, depth and realism and aside from physics (which Forza does brilliantly), audio is the single most important thing in a car/driving game or racing sim. Now imagine if we could combine F6’s exhaust feedback/overrun and pops with F5’s sheer detail and bark in car sounds.
I just could not put down F5 last night. Must have tested out over 50 cars, maybe more… and compared to their F6 counterparts, nearly every car has the kind of detail and true-to-life character that screams: T10 know their cars and they mean business!
Agreed that a lot of the sounds seem more synthesized than other FM titles.
However for car sounds I feel that PCars has it got it much, much more right. The sounds are incredible - albeit the transmission noise can be a bit much sometimes.
I don’t feel like we’ve been short changed though. The stock cars on FM titles sometimes sound realistic, although post tuning, they tend to go downhill.
I somewhat agree to that - apart from Forza 2, the FM titles haven’t paid much attention to how upgraded engine sounds should change. I don’t know how good PCARS sounds are on the PC, but on the X1, they don’t sound too impressive. They did a good job on the race cars, but the road cars sound wierd. It appears to me they went to a racetrack, recorded some generic sounds for different cars and pasted those in the game. They do not sound convincing.
I think as far as console games go, F2, 4, 5 and both Horizon (H2 on X1) games have the best sounds to date.
It’s not just the forced induction sounds that don’t sound as realistic anymore, but mainly the engine and exhaust - many cars sound too whiny like jacked up lawn mowers. I do not like admitting this as a long-time fan, but practically every engine sound feels scaled back, compared to the rich and real-life samples present in F5.
I don’t know why they ditched a perfectly good approach. Earlier today I was driving the P1, SLS and LaFerrari in F6, and I just did not want to turn the volume up like I do in F5, because the cars sounds are so artificial and forced.
Believe me, there will be folks disagreeing with what i’m saying - I urge them to drive the exact same cars stock and upgraded using the same sound system. I don’t even have a full surround set up; I’ve got a digital 2.1 stereo setup running through 8 speakers in total and man oh man F4 and 5 blew my socks off with their visceral and true-to-character engine/exhaust sounds.
I hope the devs consider redoing some of the samples like they did for the GT350 and V8 supercars. Not satisfied at all with these samples:
F-type (all Jags actually, except for the XJ220 and D type)
F40
SLS
LaF
P1
C63
Miura
The downshifting sounds on many cars in the game are cartoony and too linear - they have no character or distinction like they do IRL. The Laf and F40 downshifting sounds come to mind - not too convincing.
What I’m getting at is the fact that the FM games are known for highly detailed, dynamic and rich engine audio. F6 got robbed of that, there’s no question about it. And since Forza has set a benchmark with previous titles, we should settle for no less.
The E46 M3 is another. In FM5 it sounds amazing. Take one out on Prague or similar and listen to that engine noise echo.
After its exclusion from FH2, I was looking forward to wringing its neck out to hear the upper registers of the rev range but it’s just not pleasant to have the volume up on this thing in FM6.
But there are some cars that do sound great. The LFA, the 4 litre twin turbo V8 Audi and Mercedes engines in the new models and I like the One77 as well. The Delta S4 sounds a lot closer to FM4 and FH1 too having both supercharger and turbocharger noises audible.
But a lot of cars sound very synthesised and just harsh.
I agree - on some cars they have done an exceptionally good job such as the One-77 and LFA. I was hoping to an across-the-board kind of thing - apparently, some cars were handpicked and got their sound done right. Both the F50 and F99 GTO sound insanely good in F6, but what went wrong with the F40? Very annoying to say the least, and a major letdown for us folks that have been going back to the franchise again and again for the last decade or so, hoping to continue living our dream with Forza’s authentic experience.
I actually purchased my very first DLC today on XLive: the LaFerrari pack and my oh my that thing sound beautifully menacing. They nailed the character of that car. Same goes for nearly every car in F5… the team put their heart and soul into bringing the cars to life. By comparison, F6 seems rushed. I hope this kind of thing never ever happens in a Forza game; it is unheard of for crying out loud!
Even the tire screeching sounds seemed more realistic to me, however, F6’s are nice. There was wind and road noise in F5, which is absent in 6. Plus, 5’s reverb felt just about right and the way the cars sounded going past the camera and into the distance, definitely more convincing in 5.
FM5’s interior sounds would also change when you strip off weight or pan your head 45 degrees in cockpit view. The ambient sounds were also better IMO.
Forza 6 Sound 7/10
It seems like engine sound in games should be an easy part for developers but Forza games are as good or better fan a lot of games even with a 7/10 score IMO.
I miss the small block Chevys exhaust notes from FM4.
FM6 is a mixed bag of fantastic :(97 Skyline, 95 Mustang),
Good (Lambo Huracan, 458 Italia, Any Vtec)
Okay : All GM classic muscle
Poor : SLS AMG, Modern Jags.
Remember the Mercury Cougar dyno recording from FM4?
When I literally stop and think about it for a moment - FM4 sounds just left me stunned as I never imagined cars could sound that good in a game! It is sad to see sound is not being given as much attention in a franchise that is known for getting the CAR SOUNDS right!
Well, I mostly prefer using the Home Theater setting as it gives you the full dynamic range - you hear the cars around you better, the ambient sounds are better balanced. However, headphones will make the cars that already sound good or even okay = really good. While the cars that sound off like the SLS or F-type may sound worse. Another down side is that you can’t hear cars driving next to you or creeping up on your as good; even in replays you’re mostly hearing your car which gets boring.
The headphones setting is good to go to when I’m just doing Rivals or hotlapping; I want to really hear my car. However, I would recommend the H.Theater setting (as long as you have an amp and speakers) to get a better dynamic frequency range on the highs, mids and lows.
In complete agreement - they put so much heart and soul into F2, 3 and 4 (well, 3 was a bit of a weak link); I wonder why the same level of research or dedication did not go into F6. In F5 too, some could have done better like the ZL1 and Evo 10 i.e. I really was hoping to see the best of F4 and 5 sounds being improved in F6.
The headphones setting is interesting and does indeed bring to life additional details in the engine and exhaust sound - however, as you say, other cars around you can’t be heard as good. Forza 5 sound and even graphics showed off what the X1 can do… I hope to see that level of polish with improvements in F7. Been sticking with the franchise since good ol’ FM2… hope there isn’t more disappointment to be had in future!
It does improve sounds… but on some cars (that ones that sound wierd or off), it can make it worse as they sound even more synthesized or digitized as opposed to an actual engine sound. The SLS AMG was one of my absolute favorite cars to drive in F4 as they nailed the sound so well. It got ‘quiet and civilized’ in F5, though retained some of the car’s signature sound, but in F6… it does not sound like a howling and growling AMG V8, it sounds like one of the “videogame lawnmower car sounds from GT”. Sorry, couldn’t resist saying that!
I want to see that dynamic range in the car sounds… where you would actually hear variations in pitch and tone while climbing the revs, right up to the redline. That was present in F5 and the downshifting sounds were really realistic. Oh man… the P1 and LaFerrari in Forza 5… sweet to the core and does complete justice to the real thing (P1’s turbo could have been done better though). In Forza 6 they improved the turbo and exhaust feedback sound on off-throttle, but that P1 growl is gone. The LaFerrari’s downshifting sound got wierd (countless other examples) along with the main engine sample, which I cannot tolerate from the first person view as it sounds too digitized and fake. It sounds fine from the chase cam though, much closer to the actual car.
They already have the audio files from F4 and 5; why can’t they improve sounds on the LaF, P1, SLS or F-type, i.e. ? They gave the V8 supercars and GT350 sound a boost. Speaking of which, the 350 could have been done better, but still much improved form the original sample at release.
It’s the inconsistencies that bother me, because when you hear cars like the 458, Huracan, LFA, One-77 in Forza 6, or the F50 and 599 GTO, you are left breathless and wonder why some of the others got the short end. What happened to the Supra? It was so faithfully recreated in stock and upgraded form in F2 and 4… the F5 version was fine… but in F6, quite sorry to say it sounds somewhat fake and forced.
I know T10 check out these threads - please gentlemen, update some of the engine/exhaust sounds, we shall be much obliged. We’ll stick to the franchise nevertheless, however, some improvements are in order.
I have the games output to headphones, but listen to the game as per normal… Using a 65" UHDTV that has built in sudo surround sound. But do have 5.1 surround as well, but it gets a little loud for others in the house, so normal TV sound it has to be when others are at home, or late at night.
Ppl found that by setting your Forza game sound output to headphones, it enabled a significant sound improvement across the board. Head to your settings and give it a go. You do not have to use headphones, just change the settings to suit them.
I remember from way back at forza3 launch, going to several MS Forza events and there were discussions on how Turn10 were creating the engine sounds.mthry used both dyno and real life recordings, having mice on the front, rear, sides, inside on dash, near drivers head (on B pillars etc) and behind driver, and on hoot (truck).
Saw several vids showing how the team captured the various cars changing gear on the dyno, then on the track. They put a “huge effort” into making that game stand out from the two previous iterations. I dedicated a complete website to the game at the time, both poor to, and after the launch…
Not sure where things deviated from that level of dedication…? Perhaps now with two developers working on it, some areas overlapped from Forza 5 into F6, while others were shared with the others crews, so some areas of sound weren’t done as they might have like it yo be done etc? Who knows really…
But overal, I enjoy the rounds of both games, I use the ‘headphone’ settings for sound output, and that certainly has made a marked difference in many cars.
I notice more tyre scrubbing now, more road rubbish such as stones, grass, et. Scrubbing the undersides of cars, especially when I choose the acid-dipped weight upgrade on cars. There’s a distinct difference yo the originally muffled interior sounds, to the more distinctive “tinny” (in a good way btw) sound one would expect from a gutted vehicle.
One thing that’s definitely lacking though is the sounds of adjacent vehicles as you pass them, or as they approach from behind. I used to be able to tell if someone was creeping up on me before, but not so much now. No real buggy, I can live with it, but it is missed…
Yes (Speedy), one would wonder where those great audio files went???
I know the HQ GTS Monaro certainly sounds good, but I had one in the mid 80’s put real “headers” on it, a few tricks with induction. And the sound from both changes certainly made a huge difference to how it sounded.
While it sounds ok, when you drop the ‘big block’ into the Monaro, there’s a distinct sound diff from the original small block Chevy to the big block. Especially the 396 Rat a Motors. We popped one of those beauties into a '55 510 Chevy (Tudor) backed by a toploader box and Ford 9" rear end.
I’ve built quite a few beasts over the decades, and Forza needs to def pick the game up with regards to distinct sound changes when upgrading…
Wow… you do all that in your spare time? Living the dream eh?
Exactly; there really is little point in buying cars and boosting them when their audio character won’t change like it should. FM2 was really good at this stuff. And it baffles me why they leave this out in future games - it was non-existent in FM3. FM4 somewhat brought it back though not completely convincing. FM5 had it for some cars only. And I’m pretty sure FM6 does not do this at all, just like FM3. Engine swaps should make every car sound unique… instead every car with a 615 KW V8 racing sounds the same, just to give an example.
Maybe they should battle it out with Polyphony to bring Caveizel back, cos’ the sound as it is, isn’t Forza material. I want to relive the good ol’ days, and preferably not see the game turning into a grind for collecting cars and cash, ala’ GT.
Bring the sounds, bring the motorsport rules, bring the simulation with highly advanced physics… because for the casual fun there’s always Horizon. FM should be as serious about track racing as possible, and sound is where they need to redo their strategy. With all the tech these days you’d think it’s possible to 100% replicate the real thing in a game.
I guess thats what happens when a great sound guy leaves the company lol easy to tell from instalment to instalment. Fm4 had some awesome sounds agreed, but I liked their little details too such as the E46 M3 when you brake its LED’s light up just like IRL but in 6 it acts as if its a normal giant bulb. That and its awesome car list with not as many inaccuracies as its successors make me miss it alot.
