All of us here are fans of Forza. It would be great if we had a thread with constructive criticism as other games in the series have had it.
Rules of this thread are:
Use tempered language. If you think the game is “broken” or “unplayable” then this thread is not for you.
Remember that developers are human too. Overly harsh language is not needed. State your issues and suggestions in a manner that you would if you were talking face-to-face.
Happy posting (and reading).
20 years ago, EA Sports released NASCAR Thunder 2004, a game that is still looked at as one of the best NASCAR games ever made. In that game, players were able to participate in a fully-fleshed out career mode that allowed you to not only develop and build a race team from scratch, but also allowed you to foster partnerships and rivalries with fellow drivers through your actions on track.
Why do I bring this up? Because in 20 years, we’ve devolved from that level of sophistication to forcing players to grind out the ability to perform basic racing simulator functions all for the sake of player engagement.
CarPG is a predatory mechanic that has no benefit to anyone…except for Game Pass executives, of course. Being forced to drive for hours just to have the ability to tune a bad car into a good car (or even a not-so-bad car) would be an awful time if the game adequately supported this mechanic. But it doesn’t. The Builder’s Cup is a rushed afterthought of a career mode that doesn’t even include a fifth of the game’s 500 cars, has absolutely zero race cars or championships incorporated into it, and sends you to the same tracks over and over and over again for embarrassingly short hero runs against AI drivers that are, somehow, both too stupid and too overpowered at the same time. The only way to even come close to circumventing this is to place yourself as close to the front as possible (because you can’t start on pole even if you outpace the AI by more than four seconds) because someone at Turn 10 thought that feature was an acceptable excuse for qualifying. And we haven’t even begun to discuss the legion of technical calamaties that are interwoven into this game, from graphical issues to players crashing to desktop to players not even being able to launch the game.
Constructive criticism? Sometimes, the best constructive criticism is sitting down, shutting up, and paying attention while the people you’ve wronged tell you as eloquently or succintly as they wish, and with all of the scorn you deserve. Because make no mistake - this game should not have released in the state that it is currently in. This is not a game that took years to develop to any acceptable standard. This is a pastiche of bad ideas and half-hearted effort being barely held together by a physics system that feels more like an incremental evolution than it does something that was Built From The Ground Up.
Should this be fixed? Absolutely. In fact, they have an obligation to fix it. Can this be fixed? Well, that’s to be determined by whether or not they want to listen to constructive criticism…or “constructive criticism”. If it’s the former they seek, then I suggest they go buy a PS2 or OG XBox and a copy of NASCAR Thunder 2004 and start taking pointers from there. Can’t do that? Then look to Codemasters - they seem to be pretty good at this whole racing game thing.
The game is broken in certain areas and some parts like multiplayer and career mode are occasionally unplayable.
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I think what scares me is that there is baked in problems to any solution that Forza can and will probably come up with for the current lackluster set of affairs that FM23 is. Do not get me wrong, as I do find myself enjoying most aspects of the game, but even I can tell you that there is stuff that needs to be criticized, and quite heavily. These are things that have always been a problem with the Forza series… it will always lack a sense of natural progression, as it was never meant to be that. Everything they’ve tried has kinda placated some people, but never enough to keep it around. The game feels like it’s one that wasn’t ready because it might not have had enough resources (play testing and QA were very much skimped on this one, which has been a thing that Turn 10 just seems to nail wrong time and time again). I feel like I’m playing something good, as the bones are strong. But that’s like saying the Toro Rosso/AlphaTauri cars are like Red Bull cars. Just because there is a solid foundation, if you don’t know how to make a complete package, then why even go with the logic of doing something. I’m not defending the poor decisions made by Turn 10 for previous entries, when I think it’s clear that the games have moved away from what made them so great. I’ll keep playing this one as I do quite enjoy the physics. But Turn10, and by extension MGS and the Forza community, have let down so many people, because it feels like the series is in that state where it doesn’t know what it needs to be anymore.
My critiques on the game are a bit more nuanced than most - why bring back tracks that don’t always fit the Motorsport theme (or are on the regular list of least liked tracks [here’s looking at you VIR and Yas Marina]). Why not allow each player to curate their own experience with whatever cars and tracks they want to use, give the community the chance to show that they know how to play a Forza game? I like the CarXP system, but why not fix it so it’s not as broken - all you have to do here is have it be set up differently, everything unlocked but you still have to earn the Car Points to build and tune to your heart’s content. It’s no different to credits, and they can even add overtakes and the sector points to this. And finally, why don’t we have varied rivals? If I want to see if I can beat someone’s time during night at a course, why can’t I?
Constructive feedback ok…
Communication - I feel basic comms like “we are aware of… and working on…” from officials go along way when a new game launches with widespread issues. I also feel players want to know more about what new features or events are coming.
Time vs Reward - I like most want the car leveling system scrapped. I feel the time invested into leveling cars is out of proportion to one’s sense of accomplishment, reward and enjoyment. Not to mention it’s all unnecessary. I feel it’s in Turn10s best interest to scrap this system or rework it as soon as they fix major bugs, otherwise I see many putting the game down for a year with the hopes things will change in time.
I think the first things to address are bugs and graphical bugs. These things were unexpected for me in a Forza game. I understand that times have changed and crunch-time is scoffed at, but I guess management then needs to make better time-schedules/roadmaps.
Secondly there is a huge uproar from the community because of perceived lack of content (no I’m not saying that the game has enough content, but it’s still a subjective perception). As I understand this is meant to be a constantly updated game i.e live-service. That type of game needs constant reminders to the community of content that’s coming-up. I see you are doing this on this page, but it seems the communication isn’t reaching many members of the community.
Lastly I think drifting and drag-racing is a big part of the community. They must be very disappointed at how the game launched. Also… Can you teach me how to drift better in the game somehow? Wouldn’t hurt if there was a driving coach in there too.
Other than these things I think the game plays really great, maybe even fantastic. Going in the direction of a sim, but with friendly options for those who want to/need to learn the basics is the way forward I think.
I forgot all about communication in my constructive critique. Yes, communication is needed, and clarity in that communication is going to be of the utmost importance. Since we’ve got so many half-truths I don’t know which way is up. I think the best way for Forza to get themselves out of this mess is to look at all of the games in the Franchise, take what was good from each game (this is subjective) and then reach out to the community to help rebuild what trust they’ve lost. I wouldn’t mind a tweaking to the car leveling system, and it does give me parallels to Forza 4’s Affinity system, but like I’ve stated previously, it does need overhauled.
Another strange critique that I just realized I had is exactly where I’ve felt this conversation going if they are to remove the car leveling system… please do not make it become too easy or make people feel like they are better than they are at this game. I don’t want to be rammed by people doing the same old power builds of Forzas old. I’m learning my way of building in Forzas old didn’t exactly stand up to the game either, so I’m trying something new. What scares me here is that those exact things that made previous Forzas become super stale and static after a few months could come back here.
I have to ask lol, have you played MP yet?
I have, and I’ve not yet come across any bad drivers yet. Or power builds for that matter
The multiplayer is great.
And now…may we go back to the constructive criticism?
About three-quarters of the forums are constructive criticism already.
I kinda regret commenting here now after reading your comment because it’s so true.
Yeah exactly this guy doesn’t want to hear constructive criticism, he wants it buttered up, spun and sugar coated, he proved that by having a pop at anyone and everyone giving the game proper criticism yesterday, the opening post here is about as real in it’s sincerity as I am the real Gilles Muller.
He’s spent 15 minutes at absolute most with the franchise in the last 13 years before this new game, but now evidently sees himself as some kind of FM diehard in just 70 hours of playing this new one, which in that time he has completed just 1 single Tour in the career and has done 228-230 laps in MP without getting on the podium once so far, and it was past the 100 mark when he set his first clean qualifying time.
But hey seeing as it’s a constructive criticism thread I suppose I should give some to finish off…
Competence, experience and knowledge are the 3 main things that contribute to an informed and worthwhile opinion on any subject.
I think the developers made some aggressive and courageous creative decisions with this game. The idea of instilling a sense of dedication and care among the players over their cars comes from a good place. It’s doing something new and it’s taking risks. But obviously when you have risk you’ve that possibility of things going south.
I’m a bit miffed at being ditched into an A rating through, I think, no fault of my own. I’m no shrinking violet nor am I whiter than whiter, mistake-free saint but earnin many of those mutisecond penalties were truly draconian & genuinely mystifying. However they have shown a pledge to readjust that as they get more experienced with populated lobbies and I can take a philosophical view on that for now.
I do find the game very confusing. There’s two currencies in this game?! I still only half know what car points are? I aggressively level up my car through bloody grit but I go back to it and I’m defeated in what I want to do - because I’ve no car points? I mean…wha?
This business of getting in and out of cars and then having to rummage to find the car again if you go from upgrade to design editor or to a race - it’s a small gripe in the scheme of things I guess - but it’s highly irritating and very unnecessary.
Anyway I do enjoy the game for all of that. Some MP races are good, hustling a Group C car up and down Spa is always fun and there are other bits n’ bobs. I’m able to enjoy the game on my own terms.
But taking the broader view if you are going to put several ‘Berlin Walls’ of grinding and the fog of confusion before the average forza player can get to have a satisfactory racing experience with their cars, I don’t see the average forza player sticking with this game. I don’t see the road map for that to happen. Forza players want to get in their pick of cars and have a rewarding experience quite quickly. I just don’t think you can overthrow a key expectation of the player base and not confuse and alienate that base - whatever about anyone fresh to the franchise.
That’s kinda what I’m seeing here.
It’s fairly simple. Use credits to purchase cars. Level cars to unlock parts and earn CP to spend on parts.
They need to add the ability to select a current car that always appears at the start of your garage just like in Horizon.
C-Class open has been the highlight for me in MP this week. So many viable cars. All competitive.
Horizon and Motorsport are 2 completely different games. Horizon targets a very broad audience while Motorsport targets a very narrow audience. In saying that, the bulk of Horizons success is in the physics and models that come out of Motorsport. So the 2 games compliment each other quite well IMO. Point being MS isn’t really trying to snab up Horizon players. In saying that, MS have done themself no favours with the current poor unstable state of MP especially on Xbox.
It’s the best looking Motorsport game now that I’ve had time with it. The blur/vibe in replay mode reminds me of PGR3. I had time to look around spa and le sarthe, and the 3D environment really pops.
That being said, it’s not the best feeling Forza. FM5 and 6 feel better overall. There are elements that if incorporated into what made FM5 and 6 so great would make this the best feeling Forza ever, but it’s not there. Cars have too much grip, there’s too much understeer, and not enough slip angle in the cars.
It’s not the best sounding Forza either. FM6 Porsches all sound right, and since FM7 Forza has gotten lazy with their Porsche sound design. Even in FH3 the Porsches sounded good. I guess they short changed Porsche when they got their license. Also anything fast and loud in real life sounds horrible in game.
The game is also bugged, and in trying to fix power shifting, they made shifting worse and power shifting is still a thing.
It has potential, but I don’t see it beating FM4 or 6.
It is a step up from FM7 though which is nice, but we’re missing some cars that I’d like to have from 7.
Forza Motorsport has a bug in its windshield wipers. They don’t wipe away rainwater and in the car’s dashboard camera, the wipers disappear. The emblem of some cars also disappears from the steering wheels during night races, as in the case of the 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS Forza Edition
Congratulations on finding ‘car points’ simple. I don’t. I don’t know where I can find the ‘car points’ figure as it’s often missing from the screen. And when I’ve gone through the hassle of leveling up and there’s no points, that’s an added extra level of frustration. If all this is simple for you, again, that’s great.
I appreciate that Horizon and FM have bases that don’t neatly overlap. That’s is indeed a tremendous and interesting thing to know. That several big barriers of frustration being placed before players still isn’t good to retain players for this title, nevertheless, remains my view.
I must be mistaken… Forza 5, the understeery mess is better than this in the handling/physics department? That confuses me. I remember simple cars being undrivable in FM5 (and some retained that feature in FM6). There is a world where I can see it, but I remember some of the cars I’m currently driving being messy in 5 and 6 (here’s looking at the DLC Holden Commodore VL from 6 being a boat). I can agree with the slip angle though, and I think the grip is set more by track conditions, and since they feel a bit smoother, yeah I can feel that grip increase.