Someone on here told me that cams aren’t really worth it as an upgrade in the game. I’ve tried to listen to that advice and go with other options since. However, I’m fooling around with a 70 Camaro in D class right now. I have two builds for it. One is primarily centered around a supercharger and the other has cams in it. Can’t combine them in D class really… Its weird in that the one with the cam has a lot more HP, but a lot less torque. Yet, the cam build accelerates a little quicker and has a higher top speed. It shifts at very different points too. The supercharger goes about 15 MPH faster in 4th gear, but doesn’t seem to be very effective when it gets to 5th. The cam build just keeps climbing in 5th until its faster.
Just curious as what you guys lean more towards? Should I start experimenting with the cams, or is this just an oddball with the one car?
Ironically, the supercharger build is the one that I’m able to post faster times with. The cam goes a little faster, but its odd shift points make it a pain to drive. Its kind of in between gears for the last section of turns through LeMans. The supercharger build cruises through that section much nicer and beats the cam build every time. My PB with both of them is less than a second apart and I attribute that to the better shifting with the supercharger build. I don’t have a race trans to adjust the gears, can’t fit it in with the available PI. Could just be my driving though…
So you tested it. Found the Centrifugal S/C faster and don’t have the confidence to go with that? From what I’ve gathered your of an age where the need for attention should have long left you.
Seriously? What’s the point of this pettiness? Sorry dude, but I don’t have the years of experience with this game that most of you do and I’m trying to learn as much as I can. I tried it with one car only and I asked if this was an oddball situation with the one car. I’ve had some responses that lead me to think that is the case. Yet, you have taken this as an opportunity to take an unprovoked shot at me? Not sure what your problem is with me, but I could care less. Nice going there bud. Unreal…
Right, when it comes to engine upgrades, always go in this order (if available) get the centrifugal supercharger, and upgrade that, if it’s not available, both the Turbo and Twin screw supercharger usually get the same HP per PI, so get one of those, obviously the Turbo can make more overall HP though, if you still have room to play with, or you can’t get forced induction, always get cams. Best choice is centrifugal supercharger, and then the twin screw, turbo, and cams all have very similar HP per PI.
It is really hard to argue with the torque gains that come along with converting to forced induction. The camshafts may make more power at the top end, but invariably have less usable torque for the same PI. With a centrifugal supercharger, the output is closely pegged to engine rpm, which makes it more tractable than the other options. The roots type supercharger has the same linear power delivery, but offers more low-end torque. These are usually less manageable than a centrifugal, but still a good option. The greatest torque gains can be had with turbochargers, but this comes at the expense of a nonlinear power band. Each has its virtues, so you really have to play around and see what works best under the circumstances.
lol don’t be discouraged bud. That’s just how he rolls. As for the cams and supercharger, well, as you have probably already noticed, the cam upgrades tend to flatter to deceive. They look good on paper, but when you actually drive the car it’s often slower - even when the stats would suggest otherwise. There are some times when a street or sport cam upgrade can work with a car’s stock transmission quite well, but they tend to be few and far between. In 99 cases out of 100 the CS will be a better bet. You get a slight nett benefit from the weight gain as you can usually squeeze enough extra HP to cover it. Some cars work better left NA though. I have quite a few of those as well. It always pays to experiment. That’s how you find cool new stuff, and that’s how you learn.
Fair enough. If my memory serves me correctly, it was actually you that told me to not bother with the cams most of the time. I could be wrong… Anyway, I was really surprised that the Camaro ran as well as it did with the cam setup. It was great in 2nd and 5th gears, not so much in 3rd and 4th. If I could fit a race trans in and alter the gears, it might actually be worth it. There just isn’t enough PI for that though. Like I said above, I think this one car is a little bit of an oddball. After the above advice was given to me, I did notice that I was getting much better results without cams in most of my cars so I’ve stayed away from them. I was looking for more opinions though as I thought maybe I should rethink that strategy.
I agree, dont worry about attitudes lol. Plus I read this whole thread because I was also curious to hear experienced thoughts on this subject. Good thread bud!
That’s always been my thinking too. However, the SC always seems to be the best value in terms of PI. If it adds 50 HP, it might only cost 30 PI. Where if you try to add 50 HP through other methods, it might cost you 60 or even 70 PI. Its kind of confusing to me actually.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What’s confusing? look at top speed rating when you add a s/c and compare it to a cam. The cam adds a bigger value to the speed rating which seems since FM3 the stat that influences PI the most. I have no attitude just don’t understand the need to seek bad advice when you have already tested the “hypothesis” and found the s/c is better. Besides a brick to your head what more do you need? Confirmation from people who may or may not know? From your posts it seems you like attention, just a mere observation. Guess I struck a nerve, hopefully no controllers were injured.
All in all if you test two things and one works better, well…
p.s. were not buds. The Camaro didn’t run well with cams as you said it had major issues through certain turns, where as the s/c didn’t. If you try it in a higher class it will still be slower. Most of the time the cams really only help in cars with weak engines.
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With all due respect, who the hell do you think you are? It may not seem this way to you, however, to me, as a reader, the posts you have applied here make you sound extremely arrogant and actually rather rude. I’m not sure if you mean it or not, but sort it out. You’ve been here since '07, you should know how to behave on these boards.
Anyhow, OP, from my experience, centrifugal superchargers are very hand, Twin-screws are not bad either, but avoid turbos. As for the cams, they give a performance boost (and quite a substantial one at that) and also raise the rev limiter, which can help with gearing.
Lol my first post here but I couldn’t help myself. “Bud” calm down. Right now your posts seem like a desperate cry for attention. If you find the topic stupid, don’t post. I don’t know why It matters to you what he posts, if you don’t like his posts don’t look at them. As for the OP I found this thread a very interesting read. I’m going to go experiment with some of my cars and see what I can come up with.
This is why. You will spend alot of time, to get right back to the tried and true method of the Centrifugal s/c. For new/er players or tuners, this can be damaging it can discourage them and make them want to quit. Why is it you guys want to use math,calculators,this,that, voodoo, instead of what Lou did? Every question in regards to tuning,building,driving, etc has been answered by many on this forum. The problem is none of it is followed because you “enabler” with your I want to be liked attitudes think that giving an answer that may sting is God awful. However it is worse to load people’s heads with bad information in regards to builds. Since the build is 90% of what makes the car good. Try it out build up your cars with no turbos or s/c go ham with the cam. Go into the terrible public lobbies and watch how bad you get beat.
How do you guys think the good tuners and the like know this? They have tried every part on every car to maximize the build. They have tuned hundreds of cars and have come to understand how the PI works better than most. If you guys know better than the collective knowledge of some of the fastest drivers knock yourselves out. I have actually contributed to this forum with countless open source tunes and good advice. Seeking confirmation when you already have the answer is not needed. The proof is in the pudding, one car drove better and was faster, the other not so much. The premise was can a cam be better than s/c going into the experiment. The result was no. Yet posts were made to the contrary that in the end aren’t helpful to anyone especially those who are new to the game. After 7 years of reading this type of drivel it gets old.
@Dribbly really lol. Maybe look at from a different viewpoint. If a hundred people believe that cams are good, they build tune there cars and get destroyed online or in rivals. Will they still want to play? All you I care about the community guys need to realize not all advice is good. A positive response isn’t always good. Sometimes a little reality can go a long way.
Centrifugal Supercharger and/or Exhaust are about even
Upgrade to race centrifugal supercharger
Everything else in motor parts except cams. I start with air filter
Don’t use intercooler
Try not to use oil and cooling though it’s not all bad because it doesn’t add substantial weight.
Never, ever, ever use a flywheel
Here is where you reach a point and you have to start playing around.
If you cannot make the PI work adding street cams then playing with the other motor parts is beneficial
Next is sport cams if it still can’t work but it’s unlikely.
Putting a turbo charger, especially in the lower PI cars rarely every works. You are better off going non aspirated in the vast majority of cases over going with a turbo or twin screw supercharger.