Never ever first. Thanks Worm. Wasn’t trying to be argumentative to that extent.
Yes you were 
A little too blunt and brash though I saw the point you were trying to make that testing it himself and confirming what he had was the right way to go about it. Coming to the forum and seeing people continually build cars the wrong way and tell people to do it the wrong way is frustrating. Lots of new people around now that just don’t know, frustrating to see them continually getting that bad advice though I don’t mean to discourage people from posting, reading, or asking. If someone asked me how to paint a car to compete with tomninnin I just wouldn’t answer or tell them I didn’t know. I wouldn’t go telling them how to shade and color things just because I can paint a half decent race replica. (LINK to tomninnin)
Only in B class in FM4…C class is close (same PI) but in FM5 you had race tires on nearly everything. With the change in tire upgrades this time around and having race on one car and stock on another you never know what you are going to get. Just what I’ve picked up so far.
I wish I waited one more minute. Thank you worm.
I see “cuts weight” and all of this but while cutting weight is important in general terms there is a balance called PI and you are trying to tip that balance in your favor.
There is an amount of weight that is equal to horsepower. It changes if you grade it on how much PI is costs game by game. The only way to find it is to test things out, in FM3 it was pretty much 1hp = 10lbs. In FM4 it was all over the place and FM5 seems about the same. You can cut 5 pounds and it’s worth more than 1hp in some cases (not @ Le Mans).
You guys have to understand there is not a set “it adds weight it must be bad” rule. Yes, a Centrifugal Supercharger adds weight. It also adds a substantial amount of horsepower while nearly every bit of that horsepower is usable in circuit racing. It does this at a bargain in terms of PI because it adds substantially less torque than any other part you can put on a car. Add a turbo charger to the same car and you will see more torque in relation to horsepower but if you notice you will start making the power 1,500 rpm’s or so lower than you would with the other aspiration upgrade. Now imagine exiting a corner in both cars. The SC is making all the power you added at 5,500 rpms AND above where you will likely be exiting - climbing revs - shifting - climbing revs. The turbo is making all the power around 4,000 rpms but you are still exiting at 5,500 rpms and shifting at the same points. You are wasting the PI points you used unless you are in a hairpin or you’ve geared your car terribly.
Want to know why Lotus’, Honda’s, and such have always been leaderboard cars? The above explains it, their stock motors are awesome.
The only way a turbo will work is if you find a flaw in the PI system with it. An example of that flaw is the 1.6L motor, not the aspiration upgrade you cannot put on it. Turn 10 tests PI on an artificial track with the AI. The AI always shifts at red line, if you shift the 1.6L at red line instead of short shifting it that motor is subpar to equal with the 5.7 or anything else. It’s def subpar to a 5.7L with a SC upgrade and you can look at the graph for where that 5.7L is making it’s max power.
I don’t have one car in my garage in FM3, FM4, or FM5 with a flywheel and I try them all the time just in case.
You can combo up wheels, diameter, and driveline to equal out PI. If you can’t do it that way try moving motor parts around and gaining/losing one torque/one hp to make it up. It’s better than a flywheel. If all else fails use a clutch upgrade as a last resort…never a flywheel.
Interesting.
This was pointed out to me a few years back. But it seems to have some validity. If a cars hp is about ten percent or greater of its weight you probably have a good car.
Thanks Loco, I had not seen/heard about this before. I’ll check some of my cars and compare to my stats. If valid, seems like a good “rule of thumb”.
I know this is Lou’s post, yet, wanted to thank everyone for their insights…especially Worm’s comments on his 3 responses!
I’ve been in a xbox live party with just 3 or 4 people trying to help explain things through it’s hard to do that in a small group. Having many people post right or wrong just makes the question,discussion convoluted. Even though it is unintentional it can be damaging to the new guys. I root for you guys, I really do(except for a few, you know who you are). One of the few things that makes FM enjoyable. Lou is off to a good start and needs to trust his instincts.
Well, thanks to everyone for the replies. I would love to take the time and test each car and figure it all out, but finding the time for that isn’t always easy to do.
Over time, I will probably do just that. There is a lot to take in after only 3 months though…
Anyway, maybe we should have a sticky created for what is allowed to be asked (Silly me, I thought that was what forums were for, but what do I know?) and what is considered attention seeking. Maybe us new guys won’t upset the veterans as much if the rules were clearer. Either way, my shorts aren’t bunched up over it.
If I have to come back and/or see this again in the future there won’t be a warning. Stop trying to dredge up arguments then play the victim you were warned to stop already and everyone had.
Are you kidding me? Whatever…
Your question was fine, you then said you had tested both and found one to be better/faster. Also you had Mick’s advice which he took from Worm going into it all. I guess after your first two posts I didn’t see a question. Silly me reading words and trying to find meaning.
A quick example of a question most everybody would jump on. My car is under/oversteering in corner 2 on track x? Oddly enough those questions never get asked. A question needs to be specific unfortunately in Forza as there are many causes to the many problems that occur. Vague or general questions don’t help because well it just shows the poster really hasn’t attempted to learn 99% of the time. If they can’t be bothered, why should I or anyone else be? Worms guide is about as simplified as it gets. Filling in the blanks is the job of the poster, not anybody else. You had done that, so what is your question?
I found this thread awfully enlightening because I hardly ever consider putting on a SC. As a newcomer, I think lou is still in trial & error stage but has been hitting the right marks more frequently and improving by leaps and bounds. He is passionate about everything Forza and being a great fan at it. Suddenly the forum feels a little cold.
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You’ve missed the point GRD, we are saying he did do it right. I’m still in trial and error mode, we all are once you get down to it. It’s how you tune/build a car
It is nice to have a forum where you can bounce ideas and findings off more experienced people. Even if it is just to confirm what you are finding. I definitely learned something from this thread. I had been leaning toward turbos for a while and used cams at times where I definitely didn’t need to. I am going back to the drawing board on a few cars with this new info! Thanks guys!
I know the arguments are bad but sometimes it brings out the best info. Thanks I was actually going to post a power to weight question.