Well what do I mean by that? Well from my experience, most automatic cars won’t let you rev out the engine to redline at a stop unless you’re in Neutral. Take a RC F for example, while holding the brakes with manual turned on and no clutch (why would you have clutch on a paddle car?) you can build up the revs to your hearts content. However in actual automatics with manual modes, you won’t be able to rev the engine over 2000ish to prevent engine failure and such. I know its a minor nitpick that hasn’t been touched on but I just wanted to let the community know. It would be kinda great seeing T10 implement a rev limiter for the paddle cars to simulate a sort of “launch control” but I honestly doubt it.
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Automatic in forza is a semi automatic gearbox with AI doing the shifting. At the end of the day torque converters and any other types of auto are not simulated at all.
No games simulate that stuff particularly, GT did for the Prius when it had a cvt auto with a working hybrid system in GT5 but it was cut from 6 as strangely enough it added absolutely nothing game play wise.
I play with clutch. I would like a little feature if you drive with paddle toy cars you wouldn’t have to clutch while shifting. It might also be interesting (and fair) to be unable to use the clutch at all on those cars.
Aren’t there already three options…
Automatic
Manual (without Clutch)
Manual with Clutch…
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I’m not gonna go ahead and change settings everytime l switch cars.
Doesn’t exactly take a long time though does it…
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Previous suggestions have been to put assists in the car tune or a separate assist file for each car. Save it once how you want it for each car.
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I agree 100%!
Forza should account for the fact that some cars that are ‘automatic’ are, in fact, just manuals with paddles instead of a gearshift and clutch pedal, while others use a torque converter. Cars like the Nissan Titan concept would benefit so much from having a properly simulated torque converter in the game!
The closest you can get to a ‘REAL’ auto in the game, is to play in manual and drive around with the car locked in top gear - but even that doesn’t quite compare to how it would feel driving a car with a simulated torque converter…
Also, HOW THE HELL are we supposed to drive a car in “manual with clutch”, when most of the cars in the game DON’T EVEN HAVE A CLUTCH PEDAL?!
Nothing pisses me off more then driving a McLaren 570s “with clutch”… Froza… IT DOES NOT HAVE A CLUTCH PEDAL!!!
This isn’t just a Forza thing, but most video games will treat cars that have torque converter automatics as manuals, hence why you hear the rev-matching during downshifts or why it is entirely possible to drive them as a manual transmission (when IRL some versions, especially older autos do not have the provision to row through the entire range of gears manually). Enthusia Professional Racing on PS2 AFAIK is the only video game I have seen that models actual automatic transmissions like real-life, with converter lock-up or how downshifts are treated when more throttle is applied.
As for clutches in vehicles that don’t have driver operated ones, I have a personal preference to match the driving assists with what the vehicles would have IRL. For example, I keep ABS on cars I know have that feature - IRL, this isn’t something that can be easily turned on and off like traction control. Similarly, if I know the vehicle in reality has a so-called semi-automatic (DSCs) with an automated clutch, I won’t turn “manual with clutch” on.
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Its an arcade game not a simulator…
Why does it have to be one or the other? And why when people have given it their label do they almost always say therefore it should have this or that?
Why can it not have some realistic features and some not so?
Why can it not be described as a driving game that fits neatly in between traditional arcade and simulation racing games?
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I disagree, it doesnt fit neatly in the middle. Forza motorsport would be closer to that definition if anything and even then imo just barely. The only “realistic” thing about horizon is the way the cars look, other than that i really cant think of anything else. Horizon does have more believable physics than other arcade games, but its still an arcade game. I think of it like an open world Project Gotham, great series, but still an arcade game.
I didnt say its not an arcade game.
Your post actually agrees with me. “more believable physics than other arcade games”. A big part of the point i am trying to make. Name a game usually labelled as arcade with more believable physics. Not sure there are any.
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I did name a game which was the project gotham racing series which including MSR would include 5 games that had realistic physics but were arcade games. I think test drive unlimited was at the time the most realistic open world game and then even driver san francisco had pretty believable physics, driveclub would also be considered “realistic”.
As far as more believable i really couldnt say, that would be an individuals opinion. Horizon is filled with things (as well as forza motorsport for that matter) that arent consistent with reality. Imo i think horizon 2 felt more “realistic” in certain situations than 3 does.
I know you like this game a lot and maybe i offended you by labeling this game an arcade game, but it is. Being an arcade game it doesnt need to adhere to reality, which it clearly doesnt on many levels. I only commented on this thread because i dont understand people expectations for a game such as this. The assists that this game shares with motorsport are strictly a difficulty setting, that doubles as a way to earn some more money, nothing more nothing less.
You have not offended me and this is nothing to do with how I feel about FH3. Its more to do with how I feel about stereotyping 2 types of car games versus letting them land somewhere on a spectrum.
You mention a handful of games with some degree of realism over and above the full arcade games. If someone had applied the “its an arcade game it should ….” to those games they would not have had some of the features they had, they would just be copies of say a Burnout. I am not saying Burnout is bad. I am saying it is very arcadey.
On the one hand I don’t care about gearboxes. I will always use manual with clutch. But Forza games have always claimed to be in part a game for car lovers. That applies to FH as much as FM. Therefore I believe it could be argued that as a car lover’s game it would make sense to include real world gearbox options, without detracting from its arcade features.
I just do not get all the statements made recently that FH games are arcade therefore they should be full on arcade. If that is the case they should have just copied a Burnout or even something like Full Auto and be done with it.
The reality is all car / driving games are not the same and do not always copy other games in their sub genre. They fall somewhere on a spectrum, being part realism part not.
I guess similar (or opposite to you) I do not understand peoples expectations that arcade means xyz or arcade means it does not need to adhere to reality. In some ways the arcade games you mention do adhere to some aspects of reality and in some ways has helped those games be unique and more enjoyable as a result.
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only game that simulates auto gearbox is beam.ng and euro\american truck series.
Well when it comes to racing games there certainly would be a spectrum. Im not saying horizon shouldnt have options for transmissions, but i highly doubt it will ever offer options based on the real world car. Forza motorsport which is supposed to be taken more “seriously” doesnt have these options either, the fact is these things are not simulated in any way.
Like i said above the entire assists menu is filled with standard settings for every car in the game. Its been this way for 10 years, i doubt theyll be changing these options to make horizon more realistic. If anything i think theyre trying to do the opposite and become more arcade so motorsport doesnt seem so similar.
But who knows, horizon 3 has become very successful for them and they might decide that more arcade is the way to go. I personally dont like the trend of recent forza games but business is business. The fact is theres plenty of racing games out there with varying degrees of realism. I myself am drawn to more realistic games so i dont really play either forza at all at this point. I just think if people are going to buy a game like Horizon and expect much realism theyre in for a big suprise.