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I would like to see AI making mistakes like braking too early or too late, coming off the track and so on. Anything that a player or driver would do when he/she is overdoing it.
6 Likes
Yeeees, I’m all for it - give AI personality.
Dirt 2 RX AI is probably my favorite still. Being the first racing I had 2010 and still play on 360. If you dent someones car in one turn he could get back at you later in the race with a funny remark. Not robotic, but some human character to it.
AI also prolongs single player long after online servers are dead or thin competition etc. One reason I stayed single player so far, you can buy older games and still have as fun.
2 Likes
totally on board with this, and give us the option to customise the AI. instead of the half-baked drivatars, let us create custom AI, give them names, customisable attributes such as aggressiveness, passing ability, pace, defense, mistake slider etc etc. it would give every driver in the race a personality, and you could use it to replicate your favourite IRL racing seasons in game.
for example, the 2021 F1 season. verstappen was ultra aggressive, while hamilton was more measured. being able to replicate this sort of feel in forza would be an amazing feature.
2 Likes
Machine learning could be cool. Like in the campaign, the AI should grow with you and learn from mistakes at the same rate as you. If they begin to get too far ahead, they could plateu in learning until you catch up, or they could even get dumber slightly to maintain a reasonable difficulty level for the player.
1 Like
I guess you could make a difficulty slider with more customization. But reading through more comments made me realize that a combination of the two would be most ideal. There are 5 levels of AI drivers: beginner, club, pro, unbeatable, and undetermined. A list of each can be made as follows:
- Beginner- takes the average lap time of the bottom 50% of players on the leaderboard. They are also less willing to take risks, much more accident prone (spinning and going off the ideal line) and are overall unagressive.
- Club- Overagressive, takes average lap times from the top 50% of players, but otherwise similar to beginner.
- Pro - Average lap times from the top 50% of players, however they found a balance of aggressiveness and risk taking. They are much more calculated and are willing to deviate from the ideal line if it gives them a chance at a faster lap.
- Unbeatable - Takes the average lap times from the top 25% of players for each track, and otherwise the same as the pro level.
- Undetermined - This is where machine learning comes in. It takes the player’s average lap time for the track as they play throughout the race and will have a slight deviation (±2% lap time maybe?) therefore it seems more alive. Also, they will take the player’s incident rates and attempt to be at a similar level, again with slight deviation so some will be more accident prone, and others less.
Another idea that can be made is a safety/race pace system. The higher class you are, the more difficult the AI will be. They will adjust to the rankings that you have for safety or race pace. You can combine this idea with a slider like in the F1 games. The higher you set the difficulty slider, the faster the AI go. You can implement machine learning to this like this:
- Career Mode- AI will have a set incident rate, and it will decrease over time to match the player (with a slight deviation)
- Multiplayer/Practice- The AI will take the average of the safety ratings of the lobby/drivatar drivers/player and take that ranking and assign it to a specific incident rate (with deviation of course for more lively racing).
Turn10 already did a learning system and called it Drivatars. It was not the best.
1 Like
I also experienced this, and i think that’s one reason AI isn’t available in Multiplayer.
I’m sorry but the A.I are bad, their effectively teaching you it’s okay to not respect driving lines and collisions. The carrier mode is good but the A.I need to be sorted. They randomly break on corners like they are break checking you, they never respect the line your on even when next to them, they drive unit like your not even there. It makes the Career not enjoyable and sometimes punishes you for sticking your line but then you get the penalty, for the a.j going into you. Not everyone plays in 3rd person especially now since my sim games are popping up, players want a more immersive experience.
I upvote this. I bought Forza to enjoy some racing (against AI), starting near the back of the field and advancing corner by corner past AI.
Currently I have quit playing the Career modes, due to issues similar to those mentioned in the main post above:
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AI do not respect my racing line.
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AI ram into my car, very often spinning my car, and ramming me off-track.
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If my car or an AI car has spun, the AI will often prefer to run directly into the spun car, even pushing it sideways or backwards… Instead of slowing, and steering to avoid the obstacle, and quickly moving regain speed on-track.
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AI cars seem to make minimal or even zero effort to avoid cars (my own or other AI) which are attempting to rejoin the track after going off.
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AI brake at inappropriate places (on straights and fast corners).
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AI fail to accelerate in appropriate places (exiting corners and even the starting line), which causes other AI to back-up into traffic jams. .
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AI will make a move like they are trying to protect their race line, but they do this too late (once my car is far along side) and too aggressively, and it essentially becomes a ramming action, instead of blocking my clear line past them.
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AI often make VERY aggressive pass attempts, on a racing line which is completely unsustainable. After the pass, their car is unable to stay on-track, and often goes wide into the dirt, and loses places rather than gaining.
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AI do not seem to value the significance of AVOIDING COLLISIONS and thus AVOIDING DAMAGE to their own car.
Trying to race in a respectful, skilled manner doesn’t feel like it’s being reinforced by how these AI drive.
Thank you.
6 Likes
The current AI model is based on being the fastest car on the track. With this model the AI focuses solely on its preferred racing line, entry and exit angles, along with braking zones.
For the individual AI car this is fine as it has the width of the track. Where it falls apart is in pack racing or when dealing with a car in its path.
The AI does not race other AI cars or the player. The AI is simply avoiding collisions while trying to get back to its preferred line. This causes the AI to behave erratically causing it to brake check, brake exceptionally late, or when in a tight group over correct to cars around causing collisions. The goal of this AI style was to present a challenge to players by givjng them a car to be faster than, however this fails to do that becuase the AI is simply “driving on rails” and removes the challenge of picking the best place to overtake or defending against a pass from an AI car and reduces the races to avoiding the pack and getting out front. Then defending by using the AI weakness of collsion avoidance to stay in front.
I suggest the AI is retrained to win by finding the best way to defend and overtake with the goal of being in P1, not being the fastest lap time. If the AI truly does not have any artificial cheats or boosts as Devs have mentioned before release this should present a more natural and realistic single player racing experience. If the devs marry this type of AI training with the new AI track racing knowledge they will create perhaps the best AI racing system around.
Something needs to be done about the way AI races. I got brake checked on a long straight today. Had to switch the game off afterwards. Frustrating.
I swear the developers have never watched motorsports in their life.
3 Likes
Fix ai braking on a straigt or during mid corner and braking randomly making me ram in to them on accident. Fix ai is a must
Dropping a note about progress on this topic:
Recently we made small adjustments to the Drivatar AI to correct race start behaviors and provide a smoother experience into turn 1.
The next update [Update 8 - May 13th] will reduce unnecessary braking by AI overall. This includes cases while the AI attempts to pass, 2 cars wide in corners, at the apex of corners, and on straights.
Future updates will tweak additional areas to support better AI behaviors related to slowing down after being passed by the player, when the player is alongside AI cars, and passing improvements in multi-class and endurance races.
1 Like
To add to this here is an example of what some of the really bad behavior of the AI looks like. This image is from a multi-class race in which I am the leader and about to lap this car. What should happen here is that the 21st place car should stay to the left side of the track as I have already established myself on the right side, wait till I pass and then move to the right. What actually happens is that the 21st place car moves across to the right and runs into the back corner of my car as we enter the breaking zone. There is clearly something missing in which the cars have no awareness of where other cars are on the track regardless of if they are getting lapped or not.
If things are better now I would have hated to see the AI at release. Here are a few of my complaints:
- AI will rarely deviate from the preferred line, instead faster cars will just pile into the back of slower cars. Even on tracks like ovals that have 2 or 3 viable lines, the AI will rarely deviate from the preferred line.
- In the rare chance an AI does attempt an overtake, it will do so in the most ridiculous fashion and either cause a massive pile up, or completely miss the next corner.
- AI throttle control appears to be 100% throttle or 100% brake. In situations where part throttle would be the best method, the AI will slam on the brakes and then mash the throttle repeatedly. This results in a lot of unnecessary brake checks, very noticeable on oval races.
- AI cars are immovable objects. It’s almost impossible to bump or spin an AI car, but they will slam into the back of your car and spin you out at every opportunity.
- AI pit entry/exit is a disaster. On entry they turn sharply and slow immediately without warning, and exiting the pits they will make a sharp turn right into oncoming traffic. I’ve been wiped out by pitting AI cars many times.
- In a race that requires 2 pit stops, AI cars will often pit 4-5 times, many cars on the first lap.
I was just doing a twenty-lap race in Free Play. On like lap 14 I’m passing a lapped backmarker and he’s driving erratically and wipes me out. I spin wildly across the track and into a barrier. I reverse away from the barrier and several cars slam into me, knocking me all over. Fortunately I’m near the pit entrance so I limp into the pits for repairs. By the time I exit I’m over forty seconds behind where I was before. To add insult to injury, I got a five-second penalty. One AI driver got half a second.
1 Like
Unfortunately, there is still no improvement in sight.
The driving behavior of the AI is still unacceptable.
There is pushing and shoving and the player seems to be non-existent for the AI in places.
There are also still long loading times if you just want to drive a free race against 23 AI opponents.
Tuning and upgrading in the pit lane is still extremely annoying as the game sometimes thinks it has no internet connection and so you sometimes have to spend 5 minutes until the game reconnects to the server.
Calculating fuel also becomes a game of patience if you don’t wait a few minutes for all opponents to load.
It’s just terrible how such performance problems are still ignored after such a long time.
Ive been very disappointed by the over aggressive A.I. in this weeks American Road Racing section of the American Thunder Tour.
The A.I. was insane. I got repeatedly rammed by the A.I. or run off track in all 3 races. I finished all 3 races at the back . For the first time since FM launched im not gonna re-run a series to try & improve my position as it just wasn’t fun.
Hopefully next weeks series in the American Thunder Tour see’s an improvement with the A.I.
Just finished the final tour of the America Thunder series & the A.I. behavior made this tour a pretty unenjoyable experience for me , which was a pity as the cars featured all though the American Thunder series were great. I really hope something is done to address overall A.I. behaviour.