I know this is a area of contention, and that a lot of game balancing has gone into this area.
I have been playing Forza since the original came out and have been playing racing simulation games and even some arcade style for decades. I was exposed to a host of chemical triggers in Desert Storm and suffer from Gulf War Syndrome. Fibro like symptoms and a softening of the cartilage in all my joints plus muscular ailments which means I cannot operate my favorite gaming style in the manner I used to.
Over the last decade I have had to slowly turn on just about every assist. In Four and Five I was still fairly competitive only about 6 to 9 seconds off the lead pace. But with the harder braking zones, tighter steering track for the auto shift, increased TCS cut-out I have fallen to 16 to 20 seconds off the lead pace. I am still one of the fastest All Assist drivers but I am growing more and more frustrated at never finishing anywhere near the podium places.
I run a Saturday racing league and have for some time, I have several other friends in my 270+ friends list that are as handicapped as I am or more and we all feel the increased difficulty in making a show of it is a bit over the top. In Five I had to learn the “holes” in each system to avoid them. The spots where the auto trans can’t find what gear it should be in even when you are on the suggested driving line. The spots where braking gives out even if you are super careful. The hassles of always running race tires and race transmission so you can reduce the TCS burn, and tune out the dead zones in the shifting model. But here in 6 what I have found in place of those holes is a over compensation with safety, reducing speed in some corners and chicanes to almost zero, TCS burns that stutter the car to unusability and that is after you fixed the conversion glitch before it was impossible on some cars.
I am not looking for unfair advantage. Far from it, I just don’t want to be as penalized for my disability. My suggestion is for the various Dev’s to force themselves to play full assists for a week or so and then look at what it has done to their experience.
Yeah, I’ve basically had to greatly limit my playtimes with my arthritis. Many of my joints have been steadily degenerating over the last 30 years, so I no longer have the the ability for the fine motor control required to play many games with a gamepad, for any period of time over an hour, if even that. Heck, I can’t even sit in chairs for more than 30 minutes without pain, so even using a wheel is pretty much out. Assists help only so much, and I often turn some on for higher class cars, but it always ends up feeling like I’m fighting with the game for control. Very frustrating at times.
My only real solution now is to stick with C class and lower, and even then I have to leave ABS on. ABS just seems “off” somehow though, and I can’t even use that comfortably without using up PI on race brakes, so that I can change the brake behavior to quit triggering ABS every corner.
I’m not sure that T10 can tailor the systems in a way that could actually help me personally, so I largely just push on, and keep my complaints minimal, but I sure do miss the days when I could actually seriously play. I do at times wonder if some tweaks to the system might help more than I’d expect.
I too have the same problem. Being a partial quadriplegic only probably about 20% or less use of my hands it is almost a requirement for me to use assisted braking. There are many dead zones that need to be addressed where the brake and kicks in and there’s no need. Needs to be look at for automatic and even sometimes with the manual how the braking kicks and as your shifting and ruins your whole corner. I was just as good as some other people in our league but due to them not having a horrible breaking Zone is giving them 15 to 20 seconds faster laps. Like said in the post above we are not looking for an advantage just an even playing ground .
I guess it’s a fine balancing act to set the assists so that they help less capable players (physically and experience wise) while still hindering them in terms of performance. There has to be a downside to assists or the game would become very arcadey with everybody running them but you’d still think they could do better to accommodate players. Button rebinding wouldn’t hurt, mapping braking/acceleration to either stick would help a lot of people but possibly not yourself. Hope you get some sort of official reply at least. Good luck.
It’s my understanding that is coming soon. I managed to get my father into Forza and he loves it. His issue is he has severe rheumatoid arthritis and was forced to retire early as a pharmacist because of it. He has tried and tried but just could not enjoy FM6 so he has now reverted back to 5 because of what Engima is describing. Assists are far too punishing now than they have ever been in previous titles. Be it from changes to physics, controller inputs or the assist system itself being changed it’s rubbish now. When we were racing against each other in 6 I would have to sandbag A LOT just to prevent from obliterating him. Something definitely needs to be addressed as there’s simply too many issues with FM6 and if this is the future then I won’t even blink an eye at passing up FM7.
Not sure if it would help your problems or not and I know its rubbish that it would cost you another 150 bucks or so but have you considered the extra control the new elite controller would give with its programmable buttons and extra underside lever button things ?
Looking into it, but having already spent obscene amounts on collectors editions this year, I kind of want to find one to try out before I plunk down that price point. Hoping a buddy at the local EB can arrange a hands on if they don’t get a floor demo. Might be just the thing I need though.
Have one on the way. Thanks for the thought, I too am hoping the remappable buttons and triggers will let me drop assists. Which reminds me I need to thank my team for stepping up after a long time friend turned on me and stole all my gear when I was forced to move from the east coast back to Missouri. They replaced my Xbox, paid for my “Bells and Whistles” digital versions of Forza 5 and 6 and got me the elite controller. Here is a big thanks to those guys. The Enigma Racing League.
First thing,thank you for you’re service and sacrifice. It is also nice to hear you’re mates stepped up to help get you racing again. I am a incomplete c7 quad,with limited fine motor skills.I am sure you have tried tuning ect.not sure if I have much to add but I would be interested to hear how the new controller works for you. Hope the new controller helps.
One of my team members from Enigma Racing League suggested a fix that I hope the Turn 10 crew look into. A selectable braking assist level, say three levels of braking power. I hope they look into how much the braking assist cuts in at the last turn on Road America, the various chicanes on Bathurst, Lime Rock, Spa, Cataluna, Sonoma. Especially on Lime Rock that one slows down to 20 miles an hour to make that one. Plus My main complaint about assists would be having both the braking and transmission cut in at all the simple slows on the various tracks like the uphill on Spa, and Laguna Seca and others. One is enough but both tanks the racer hard.
@onaroll1162 Your welcome, my service came at a cost but I would do it all again gladly. It made me the thinking and understanding man I am today. I understood the need to defend this country but killing men for oil changed me. I don’t know one rational combat vet that would wish combat on any following generation. We all had hoped ours would be the last fight.
Good thread. I hope you find ways to overcome the effects of all assists on driving.
On a side note it would also be good for the “Elitists” out there that mock assist users and also complain when a assist user might be faster. There is a lot of reasons people are using the assists in game and best just mind your business about it.
I havent seen anybody on any thread mocking anyone for using assists?
Ive seen people try to help others by telling them to try racing with the assists off to become faster.
I think if anyone had the power to see behind the keyboard to see if someone was disabled they would try and help them…
Sorry just a very unfair statement by you toward the community here…
I have seen plenty of people mock assists users here, and I have gotten more than a few in game messages telling me I am either garbage for using TCS or panzy etc…
Big Worm, dude I used your tunes a lot in 5, you do indeed know how to tune for automatic transmissions. I could use a few tunes here as well,
For the near or immediate future I require:
Mazda RX-3 in C-class (current Saturday racing league requirement) get with me I have a tune I will share so that you can get my parts list then retune the trans. My GT is my forum name
Ferrari 360 CS in A-class and or S-class for next season.
Mostly I like vintage import cars, and race cars send me a Friend request I will talk to you about some of my desires, and will repay you with custom paints.
Maybe he was thinking of a particular situation he encountered? I too have come across a few people who quite apparently looked down on people using certain types of assists.
I hope all of you with a disability still get a lot of enjoyment from the game. I’ve got good and bad days (don’t have it quite as bad as some of you guys, though), some days I can actually manage quite a few hours of play, other times I’m unable to play for days, even though I’m home with nothing else to do (as currently). I’m playing with both, controller and wheel, and with different levels of assists. I can even manage without assists on a wheel, though pay with much shorter play time. Using a controller there’s just no way to drive manual for me, and using automatic really shows in my times. I actually just extended my wheel setup not too long ago by adding a shifter and clutch, I still wasn’t used to it, put down a lap that had quite a lot of room for improvement, and I still did beat my previous automatic time, where I was really pushing it and didn’t think there was much more in it still. Just goes to show how much assists really slow you down, but I guess that’s just the way it is.
Still, hope you all find ways to put in some decent laps!
Not to derail this topic, because I don’t want it to devolve into a troll fest of bash or not bash, but simply you might not have seen it but it has occurred. Also you are right this thread has not had that and most of the community is well adjusted, thoughtful people and I believe his post was an effort to protect us from that sort of comment not calling anyone out on that behaviour. But in some of the feedback threads from 5 there was al ot of assist bashing which is why they are more difficult this time around. The loudest voices often get heard over the more rational ones.
Personally I feel the adjusted assists wouldn’t be as severe as they are if they had been properly quality controlled. In 5 they were a bit better balanced and even though a full assist driver wouldn’t lead a leader board it was possible to be competitive in lobbies, if you knew the right lines to take. Now no matter what I do line wise or tune wise I am consistently 16 to 20 seconds off the lead in most races that is last place if there are no accidents by anyone. I find myself hoping the other racers are not as consistent on their lines as I am. My only saving grace is tons of practice, lots of laps.
I often think if I hadn’t been an engineer and done real race set-ups for a team or two in the real world I wouldn’t even have that small edge.
Not sure if it would benefit any of you but have you considered buying a wheel set up? I was just thinking that could be easier for some of you as you’d have the ability to stretch your hands while racing and could manual shift with paddles. I would think that might be easier than holding a controller for some people.
