So I love the C6’s, bought a zr1, put some minor upgrades. Intake, headders, discplacement increase, stock supercharger, upgraded the intercooler… So I figured, “ehh what the heck, let me see what kinda power id be looking at if I were swap it with the RACE cam”…and the results were a whoppin 104hp increase, seriously? Lol. Needless to say, if you were to take 2 stock zr1s, upgrade one with a set of twins and keep the other one stock, the supercharged zr1 could easily keep up with the turbocharged.
Not complaining but really 104hp cam swap?! Point me to that aftermarket dealer $$ lol
Need to remember that the other upgrades will assist the cam as well - and yes the right cam can lead to a massive increase in torque and/or horsepower.
I have a 5.0 litre V8 that stock made less than 200HP (emisions restrictions in the late 70s and early 80s killed HP badly), with head work, some small ignition upgrades and exhaust and carby mods and a massive cam (designed for torque, but HP is merely a function of torque mutliplied by RPM) - it makes about 400HP as is and with a better exhaust and a better carby will make much more (the current one runs a compromised tune so that it starts and will actually make SOME HP - it’s either that or it won’t start or won’t make any HP as it just isn’t flexible enough to cope with the extremes of the cam).
Have a look at the mods for things like the LS1 - you can add a turbo and a tune and get awesome HP, but add a turbo with the right cam and a tune and you will get a far more driveable engine with much better HP and torque. A cam regulates the breathing and the timing of that breathing of an engine and is one of the biggest gains to be made when modifying an engine - just not one of the easiest or cheapest.
I’m just talking about the game. So with me just getting the zr1 and stock internals and just upgrade the cam, you mean to tell me I can instantly get 104hp?! Doesn’t make sense
depends on the tune. back in fm3 i seen a zr1 trounce the ford gt, the only car that could do it. i had my tvr close but need the gt to make a mistake, neither of us seen anything of the vette except tail lights andd not even that for very long on sunset oval. i could win almost every race its a 2008 doge viper in fm5. there was a guy whith the name tag zr1 even. on atlanta short he said "dont make a mistake or i will lap you. i was in 2nd and the only one he didn’t lap. still dont know the tunes, but tuned and driven right the zr1 is a monster. i haven’t mastered it but i have lost to it. it is not ever rated. it beat me and i am above average. an over rated car cant beat me. the vette has.
Another thing to consider is that the Forza upgrading system isn’t true to life, there are balancing issues that the developers have to take into consideration when giving cars upgrades.
Look at the difference between the stock HP and Torque figures from cars like the 1970 Z28 Camaro and 1979 Z28 Camaro, both cars are sporting a 350 cubic inch (5.7L) small block V8 engines, the 70 Camaro packs a punch with a healthy 360 HP and 380 Feet Pounds of Torque, while the 1979 Z28 Camaro wheezes by with 175HP and 270 feet pounds of torque. In order for the '79 Camaro to achieve similar numbers you’d need to install what Forza calls “race” parts, when in reality it takes far less aggressive parts to turn those kinds of numbers.
Realistically you can get 500 - 600 horsepower out of a small block V8 without boost or multi-carb setups and still run on premium fuel.
It’s not that the ZR1 is over rated, it’s that the Forza upgrading system leaves much to be desired. But I don’t see that changing any time soon because of accessibility.
Actually, depending on the engine; a camshaft can net about 100HP, that’s not really all that unreasonable… For large displacement engines. Could you net 100HP out of a camshaft upgrade in a 1.8 L Civic engine? Probably not… But a camshaft swap in a '77 Trans Am’s 400 Ci (6.6L) big block V8, it’s very likely that a camshaft can net a 100HP gain, and the camshaft not even be all that aggressive.
IDK im not buying it, compression has to come into play, lift, the chamber size of heads, intake flow and exit, fuel type, ignition timing, air temp, etc. if you have a STOCK Pontiac 400ci engine, STOCK heads, Stock block, internals, upgrade ignition, intake headders and manifold alone can net a 40-45hp. Now when you install a cam assuming running off 93 octane for best timing and to get the most performance from a street car, aside from the gains from the previous upgrades, that cam alone can reach a potential of 100hp? Id sure love to chart let alone the specs of that cam.
Everything you’re saying is true, but you do need to realize that a camshaft will effect an engine’s compression ratio. A more aggressive camshaft with higher lift and longer duration will allow more air and fuel mixture to flow into the combustion chamber, therefor more volume in the cylinder that needs to be compressed. The main reason why the late 70’s engines where such poor performers were not just because the exhaust was choked off with emissions junk. But because they lowered the compression of the engine, not just by dish pistons and larger combustion chambers; but with pathetic camshafts with hardly any lift or duration.
You can put a new intake manifold on the engine with a larger carburetor, a freer flowing exhaust system, up the compression with new pistons and burn the fuel air mixture better with a new and improved ignition system and still only see mild gains… Because you’re still passing all this through valves that aren’t opening very much and not for very long either!
Pontiac is actually known for having high flow heads, which is why the 400 Ci engine in 1977 still held over 300 feet pounds of torque, and actually the cylinder heads on the 400 is actually quite comparable to that of the '70 Chevy LS6 454.
Pontiac 400: 2.11 in/ex 1.66 - about 100 CC chamber (the source I found listed them as 99 cc - 101 cc)
Chevy LS6: 2.19 in/ex 1.88 - 110 CC chamber
Not a big difference there, is there?
In regards to your emissions regulations comment, at first emissions were largely met by simply lowering compression ratios; and that was done (mostly) by dished pistons, slightly larger combustion chambers and of course much milder camshafts. Yeah, the exhaust was choked down too with early catalytic converters; but the rest of the exhaust system was largely the same. Most muscle cars came with exhaust manifolds instead of headers, even the legendary LS6 454 and 440 Magnum came with heavy steel manifolds.
Getting 100HP out of a cam is possible. Real life for a V8 you can easily get 50-100HP out of a cam without ported heads just depends how aggressive you want it to be. Google is your friend. In Forza who knows what formula they have to produce the output for the cam upgrade with other upgrades in mind.
How does that make sense? even L98 heads have great off the stock flow but wont flow enough for a cam, let alone it makes more low end torque than high rpm and dont you think IF a company made a cam that was capable of 100hp reguardless a head size, everybody and their grandmother would be buying it? needless to say OTHER comanpies would want to over achieve that by making a cam more powerful to 110hp-1xxhp.
But to get to the point, what your saying is IF I had a LS9 ZR1 or just a motor alone STOCK, your telling ME that YOU can find a company that supplies 100hp camshaft for the LS9?! LOL
The 1977 firebird 455ci engine made a whopping 180-200hp. It wouldnt be hard to double or triple the hp on a engine thats so choke up. Points is there alot of reason why manufacturers might hold back on a motors full potential. If cams arent allowing the engine to breath, there will big gains by upgrading them.
