Im not the best tuner or the best racer.I can post track times on some track in the top 2500 into the top 20,000,like I said not the all that great but lately I have been trying MP and it doesnt seem to matter what car I pick,tune or what have you I just cant seem to be very competitive.
Now I do prefer muscle cars and I know they arent the best but I have also built Acura’s,BMW’s and Totyotas but I actually drive those worse than muscle.I try to get a good balance between handling and acceleration,but its just not working.
Ive done better at building and tuning a B class and it seems competitive and I can hold the top 3 positions but I get a lot of in game comments about me using muscle and then I seem to be the target for being rammed mercilessly usually by some one in an EVO or Civic.
C class isnt happening,Im normally last or next to last place…???
B class cars I have tried,
73 TA,70 camaro and 70 chevelle they seem to hold their own well.
C class same cars plus acura,bmw,supra and some others I cant think of right now but it doesnt matter, c class is my major downfall.
So am I tuning for the wrong things?Any insight would be great.
I usually lighten up and reinforce the chassis,go for race brakes,suspension,stay under race tires then add any power that adds hp and takes away weight.
For muscle cars you want to buy parts in this order.
Weight reduction, suspension, brakes, sway-bars, roll cage.
Max tire width.
5.7 liter v8, centrifugal supercharger, upgrade the super charger, exhaust, and if the street transmission reduces the PI like most do, buy that.
Now, with the PI you have left you can either buy tire compound upgrades or more power, depends on the track. You can also reduce the power a little bit by removing the exhaust or downgrading the super charger if you want race tires but can’t afford them.
This is for B class, C class is just tcs + rally engine = win basically.
EDIT: Get Aero, and a Diff, you always want those, but I figure you know that.
C class 3.5L v8 muscle cars dominate in C class too and you don’t need TCS.
Only difference in C class build order to me is:
3.5L v8 + centrifugal super charger + race aero
For speed tracks like sebring, indy, etc. put on race supercharger.
Put in race suspension, brakes, roll bars, and diff. If there’s a transmission upgrade that drops PI, add it too.
18-19" rims that are lightest weight. (The size and slightly heavier rims may be changed to fit other parts)
Weight reduction + second tire upgrade + widest rear tire width (don’t use front tire width) for grip build. Drop tire upgrades except rear width for speed tracks or only use first tire upgrade.
Add more power if it drops weight too plus Driveline.
Test. If it needs roll cage, drop upgrades from 6. first and then play around with weight reduction/tires/rims until it works out.
-3.5/-3.5 on camber, 27/27 tires, and 40/20 diff for a start to the tune and adjust as needed.
3.5L V8? Am I missing something here? I haven’t raced C class in awhile, I just remember it going that direction with the old school Celica last time I raced in it.
Crap. Am I messing up the engine sizes again? Lol. And he’s asking about lobby cars, not leaderboard. Muscle still crushes lobbies unless a rally motor car appears. Lol. Then its a pretty good battle unless its a celica.
First thing to do is look at gtfoot open source tunes all very good. This will give you an idea on the difference in your tunes and others. I also wondered what I was doing wrong. Turns out I needed more time on the track
BIGpoppaKEGdog
Thx we are not to far off from how I build my cars.I have some decent B class muscle its just c isnt working out well.
I always build like this
race brake,race susp,roll cage or one under it,max tire width usually in front and rear(most times)and weight reduction, in c class I go one tire compound above stock,and sway bars.
I usually do the 5.7L upgrade,upgrade filter,exhaust and pistons first then max out with other hp gains,but always do cams last.Also do the diff upgrade and possible tranny…just depends on the car.As for aero,I use it if I have issues holding long curves.Rims I normally stay between 16"-18"
RPM Swerve
We do close the same settings on the tire pressure and diff settings.
Now if I read correctly you are using stock front tire sizes?
" widest rear tire width (don’t use front tire width) for grip build"
Maybe Im just reading it wrong or do you mean dont use the same front and rear tire sizes?
I almost never use and superchargers or turbos.
Any reason the forced induction is preferred over natural?
Also sorry to sound noob here,but what does TCS mean here?I assume it mean traction control,if so the only in game assists I use is the braking line…everything else is off.
Will check out gtfoot’s tunes to compare.
Thx again gonna look at some of my builds and see what happens later on.
Front tire width doesn’t really help that much for its cost and the bigger you go the more it understeers to me. Never use Cams in C class on muscle cars. It messes up the shift points, costs way too much pi for its benefit.
Centrigual gives you the best acceleration throughout the power band and is cheap for its benefits. The goal is corner off acceleration which the centrifgul is best at while cams and turbos are better for top speed. Top speed is irrelevant. You can make a car with better hp and top end stats with a cam, but the lower hp centrifugal supercharger will dust you every where. The cam will help with the straights but the gains aren’t enough to catch up.
You can still make an N/A car quick but you’re pretty much running a slower car. I remember I tested the difference and I was over a second slower in my N/A car despite it being statistically superior.
The supercharger + 3.5L really uses a muscle cars stock gearing well. The 90 camaro and buick really seem to benefit from this and I’ve gotten away with a 3 speed Olds.
You need to run full aero and turn the aero all the way down. Aero is a counter for lack of tires and sometimes drops the pi.
Ok thx again.
I havent raced in a lobby yet but I built a 70 chevelle using alot of your advice and made a car a 2-3 secs faster best I can remember my older times on test drive.
Im using most of the advice,
tires using 1 step above stock compound,biggest tires and using the Cent Super charger.
I put in the roll cage but doesnt seem like its really doing alot,might be better off to just add the small amount of HP and lose the 75+lbs. Any thoughts on this?
Just wanna make sure Im working and thinking in the right direction so I can learn some more do’s and dont’s.
I tried the sport tanny but really didnt need to change any gear settings,street tranny might be better, again thoughts?
Roll cage is a very good upgrade for Muscle cars if you want handling, personally I’d keep it, but you’d be better off testing and deciding whether you prefer it with or without.
If you check how many g’s the car can pull, you’ll notice a large increase in grip with the roll cage, in some cases it can give as much grip as an upgraded tire compound which is about 0.04 g’s, not including stock tire compound.
Ok if anyone wants to check out this build and let me know any thoughts,changes etc…
70 Chevelle
5.7L upgrade
forza Aeros
Max tire sizes,street compound,outlaw II rims roll cage.
street trans,race diff,sport driveline
maxed everything under handling and susp
race filter,exhaust,pistons and valves
sport fuel
centrif super charger
Tune
28.5/28.5
-3.5/-3.0
0/0
5.0
25/20
584/552
7.9/8.0
8.4/7.8
2.3/2.0
66/113 been playing with this and none
49%
140%
26%
12%
BTW I usually test on Road America Full Circuit since it has some straights,corners and curves.I get around a 2:31 avg,I have gotten better in this car but until I get a new wheel thats about normal for me.
Get the race centrifugal supercharger, sport exhaust, sport air filter, and get the sport driveline upgrade. You gain an extra 17 hp like that, you’ll gain some weight as well, but the power increase outweighs the negative side effects of that.
EDIT: I tried your tune out using the tweaked upgrades I said to try, after tweaking just a couple of things I ran a 02:25.223 on Road America full, which is nothing special by leaderboard car standards, but it’ll do just fine as a lobby car.
Your tune felt surprisingly good, so I only tweaked a couple of things, I took the rear toe down to 0.0, I lowered the car as far as it would let me, and I turned both front and rear downforce all the way up. This car will get the job done for lobby racing (unless they’re running leaderboard cars) you just need to practice on the track now, I just hot lapped my favorite tracks beating my own times and others times for practice.
Nice!
Thank you for trying it out,will give it a go and see what I come up with.
Curious if your time was with a racing wheel or just game pad? I do much better at holding my lines with a wheel than I do a game pad,up until FM4 I was strictly PC player with the exception of the PS1 at release.
I had the TX wheel for about a week but the wheel covering started to come off so I sent it back and decided to wait for a Fanatec wheel to come out.
Just some personal info.
I really stopped playing racing games until FM4 came out and decided to get back into,didnt play any MP with it though.The last MP racing I did was way back when NFS Motor City Online released and I played it a TON.I would place in the top 10 every week on almost every track and was using Act Labs wheel,pedals and H-shifter.Only guy I could never beat was Burn’N Taz.
In that game cars depended alot on tunes and parts setups,very similar to Forza4 & 5 with the way cars were built.
I also play GT5 and GT6 every once in awhile but just prefer the feel of Forza not to mention I hate the LONG load times in the GT series.
I just looked at the tweaks you made and you said you turned the rear toe to 0,I already had it set to 0 so not sure if you meant toe or another setting.
???
You’re original build/tune isn’t bad. On the 3rd lap I had it running mid 26’s. The one thing I noticed right away though is that you tamed the rear but the front end felt very restricted. I had to let out of the gas quite a bit on a few key corners which hurt my time. Its nothing bad and is adaptable but my first thought was if you’re gonna drive this car online and you have to take a sharp line, the car will likely just go straight.
I went through several builds and tunes with the car and came to realize that it just flat out understeers and is lacking in mechanical grip. I had to adjust my thinking because it wasn’t reacting how a lot of the other muscle cars act. I also learned this car must have full roll cage. I dropped down to sport for a bit and it wasn’t bad but when you had to make corrections the car wasn’t always predictable. I also learned that despite what I would normally do with other cars, this car seemed to need sport tires. Normally I can get the car to do what I want without sport tires, but with my struggles in getting the balance right, I gave in.
After a few laps, I almost beat my personal best. Road America is one of my weaker tracks so I think my car will go much faster, but I managed a 1:25.073 which would have been #137 (I’m at #130 in my kia).
Build:
5.8L swap + centrifugal supercharger
Forza aero front and rear
sport tires
widest rear tires
GN+ rims (note there are several other rims with the same weight to choose. I picked the first one)
17" rims front and rear
street transmission, street driveline, race diff
Race for everything in Platform and Handling
Race supercharger
street intake, street exhaust
Car should run mid 2:24s on a flying lap as is or if someone can figure out how to get it to turn in better. It still feels a little off to me and that it could do much better. I’d imagine it’ll run a top 100 at the alt version much easier than this track.
This isn’t what I would call a proper Road America build since normally you want a high acceleration tune but it seems to work good enough. This build should do really well on medium tracks that don’t have an absurdly long front stretch! lol.
Well thx for looking at it.
Learned a bit with this post and has changed my way at looking at future builds than what I normally would.Normally I build a fairly stiff susp setup.
Clearly you guys are much faster around this track than me,best time I got was a 2:30 but that was also with a screw up on my part.
I also know that Im pretty weak with at least 2 turns on this track,especially the last turn coming into the straight to the finish.
Guess maybe I need to watch some vids of some one posting decent times on maybe this track to find where I am falling short in general then apply to all tracks.
Honestly since I got back into racing games since FM4 all I have done is the SP or career stuff and some rivals. I know I need to learn the tracks better .
The last corner is tricky. I mess it up frequently.
I like my cars loose and other people faster than me sometimes like them stiff. I wouldn’t worry too much about that. Loose cars are something I’ve learned to like.