I’ve been a long time Turn10 Studios fan of the FM/FH series and you can check my profile game history to confirm (and you guys know that I always bought the Ultimate edition to support the series). But, I will not be spending my hard earned money any more on FM 7 if the handling model is essentially the same as in previous FM titles. Why? The front end grip and immediate turn in for the 2018 911 variant is none existent in E3 FM 7 demo videos I have been seeing, including this recent one:
The amount of front end push or understeer is just criminal for such a car - it's too painful to watch. The team at Turn10 is always preaching realism, but that understeer is just terrible.
It’s the exact same issue that the Ferrari 458 has. I posted in another message that this is self evident when you test the 458 say in the Nurbergring track in FM 6. I should not have to download a tune from a player/tuner so that these types of cars (Mid-engine/Rear-engine RWD) handle as they should (front end bite and tendency to oversteer with power input). I don’t know, but a generic template for base car setup is being used?
This is clearly how these cars should handle:
To be honest, the handling for the 458 in GT5 and GT6 is JUST RIGHT (immediate turn in then oversteer when you apply the power) and this is with PD's base setup.,
If things don’t change I’ll be switching to AC or PC2 series, which I hear has realistic handling model. In the past, there really was only GT and FM series, but now there is more competition and hungry to dethrone the 2 big elephants in the room.
Perhaps, you can hire Chris Harris for a week and have him give feed back on the handling model in FM 7 to tweak it a bit? Similar to what Slightly Mad Studios did with another famous fellow named Chris:
Lol If you been playing for so long then you would know that Forza Motorsport is a simcade mainly because it is optimized for play on a controller as oppose to a wheel. Go play AC, Raceroom or Iracing if you want pure sim physics
Don’t need to play the game, as I can already read Alan’s thoughts after seeing him play. First thought “Frustration”, second - “Same old, same old handling”, and third “Why is this 2018 992-911 not turning in like a super car, it’s plowing like a FWD civic through those turns!”.
Compare FM 7 911 with this video and see how little steering input is required at high speed to make the car change direction:
I call that a very responsive handling model in GTS for the 911.
If T10 tweek their handling model or base car setup that makes the 911 and 458/488 handle like the videos I mentioned in initial post then definitely I will get FM 7.
To be honest the turn in response in FH 3 is miles ahead of what I “see” in FM 7 E3 demo. I’m not saying to make FM 7 more simcade, but that turn in response (plus induced throttle oversteer) should be there.
My 2 cents.
LOL, I found this video and I can’t believe I beat Super GT (check out results at Rio race) back in early 2016. Didn’t realize he was recording the race!
I don’t know if you’ve driven cars fast before, but even cars with “direct” handling, plow like “Honda Civics” if you go too fast into a corner. When magazine reviews say cars have fast handling, or lightening quick turn in, they are usually referring to steering ratio. A car isn’t going to have more front grip than it can have, it isn’t some magic. Many cars with massive mechanical grip don’t get said to have lightening quick turn in, the old Viper ACR comes to mind.
Most supercars and Hypercars for that matter are tuned for a slight amount of understeer to remain stable. Yes the Porsche and the Ferrari do gave good turn in responses but that’s it. It’s just a pointy front nose, a responsive steering. Forza has always been good at that and in the gameplay the car turned in fine.
McFuu or EpicEvan777, have either of you played GT 5 or 6? My nephew plays FM series and I had him try GT 5 at my house and he didn’t like it. He thought the handling was too responsive and tough to deal with. He was so used to FM handling. I play both and yes the handling in GT5/6 is responsive and tough to deal with. However, once you get used to it you feel like you and the car are one. In FM series I always felt this disconnect between the car and I. My steering and brake input never translated into how I expected the car to react. It couldn’t be attributed to TV input lag, as I plug my XB1 and PS3 into the same TV.
McFuu, todays supercars have active aero, 4 wheel steering, super grippy tires, so that the turn in response is there at ALL speeds. Yes, entering a corner too hot will not make you turn in any quicker. But, seeing the 2018 911 GT2 RS plow through those corners is just brutal for my taste. I mean seriously that was just awful. That fact that its rear-engine RWD, has aero package, has 4 wheel steering in real life, and has high hp output to induce oversteer, seeing it plow like a FWD Civic through those turns should tell you that something is way off. Not once did I see in the video the 911 drift with the amount of power Alan was applying at certain points in the race, which the car is more than capable.
T10 team, if you are reading this please show me the proof that 2018 911 GT2 RS is capable of drifting at high speed in FM 7 and I might reconsider.
Like @Dan the Dartman said, Nick has a video out drifting the Porsche and it seems fine to me but I havent asked him yet…
I have played GT5 and 6, in fact I’ve played every GT game from GT3 to GT6 and every Forza game. Though yes, I do agree the cars are more responsive on GT I find forza’s physics a bit more realistic imo… I too find GT too responsive to real life. Have you tried SIM steering on FM? It’s more responsive than normal steering but be warned it is a handful.
Ar12 has a video out today where he drifts this car the entire lap. The first 1:4 he had traction control on by mistake but turned it off and he was doing ok drifting the Porsche.
The ART12GAMING video does show the 911 drifting, but he uses a controller which makes it easier to do. I use the G920 wheel. I use SIM steering and it does not help the “problem” that I brought up - no immediate turn in response for cars like the 911 or 458/488.
The code in FM series that allow controllers to do well driving the cars, I’m guessing here, maybe hampering quicker response with wheel. Change to code for a quicker response would be problematic for users with controllers. So I suspect status quo remains to accommodate the majority that use controller. The work around T10 expects us to use is the rotation setting (change from 900 degrees to something lower). I think each car should have custom steering ratio without me having to change wheel rotation from default 900 to achieve similar result. This might be a possible solution, but not holding my breath.
PC racing sims don’t really have this issue as majority of users have a wheel to race competitively and have a more immersive experience.
so no matter what they do with how it was (as we all know it previously) it will never be 1:1 mapping with the wheel. Heres hoping FM7 finally addresses it.
There. You answered your own question. Buttons have to have a delay. If they don’t your wheels would just turn to their lock immediately. Think NFS MW 2012 handling. A wheel on sim steering is way better because you can lean into the corner steering wise. The controller buttons acts as button operated lever. But that’s just the way it is because being a console game a majority of players use controllers. I guess to make it short, just deal with it or don’t play anymore.
Strange I dont use a controller either and use SIM steering as well and don’t have this problem. I use a TX and though I will say the controller on FM titles is faster and more responsive, I’ve never had a problem with the physics on FM6. The force feedback is woeful but that’s another issue than physics.
Try using a 270 degree of rotation, this is what JSR AziDHk uses and he is one of the fastest players in the world on Forza (and the best autocross racer as well). In order to do well in any racing game (iRacing, PCars, Forza, Gran Turismo, Asseto Corsa) you need to find the best settings that work and the ones that you are most comfortable with. 9 times out of 10 the default settings, whether on controller or wheel, are complete and utter crap regardless of the game. It’s up to the player to adjust them. You can’t complain about about a game being “made for controller” when you’re not even using the optimal settings that work. It is possible to be fast on any of the games I just mentioned using either a controller, or a wheel. It’s all down to practice and experimentation.
To prove my point even further here’s JSR Rayzer, a primary controller user, setting 3 world number 1’s after just getting a wheel.
Not sure how many have watched the Forza RC Championship series, but practically all the players choose 3rd party view. Why is that? Do you think this is on purpose on their part based on the handling physics and collision detection in the game? I know T10 implemented position indicators to let you know if other racers are close to you, but still.
Why is it that majority of racers playing on PC use in car view (Assetto Corsa, Project Cars, iRacing, etc.), with perhaps the exception of Forza Apex? I think this demonstration is worth a thousand words:
Notice the nudge from the Corvette behind (at 1:13 in the video) doesn't send the 911 flying off the track and smash in to other cars, like it would in FM series (you guys now what I mean ;) )
This is what I’m expecting from Forza Motorsport 7 if to be taken seriously as a RC Championship series.
I found the 458 on AC (I would rate AC well above GT for realism) drives just like it does on forza, mind you though you have to cage the tyres to street on AC as it defaults to semi slicks which make the care handle very different.
I don’t really have any issues with the physics in forza at all, FFB on the other hand is my no.1 hatred with the game.
Thanks for that video WASEEMK. Just for comparison, you guys tell me which one looks and feels more natural when drifting:
Start at 10:08 for drifting a MB GTS around Nurbergring in GTS:
Thoughts?
IMHO, you can see in GTS where quick turn in response is an extremely valuable asset. Also, look at how natural steering wheel angle when drifting compared to the 911 in car view steering angle. This comparison between the videos is very indicative of the two different philosophies driving the handling model in each series. FM series the slower turn in response requires wider tracks in order to accommodate drifting, so players don’t hit walls or objects too easily. In GT series real life tracks have always been narrow or true to real life dimensions. In video Nurbergring track appears so narrow and yet that wide MB coupe has no issues drifting in such a small space. As Dan Greenwalt has always stated in the past he wants more people to get into FM franchise and I think this translates to easier, slower, and more forgiving handling model, but I feel doesn’t translate to a more realistic driving look and feel - a disconnect between car and driver, IMHO.
BTW, I did race guys in GT 5 and 6 that used controllers (believe it or not) that were just as quick as those using wheels.
Think about what your comparing there, front engine RWD vs rear engine RWD. two very different things. and that GTS clip was obviously using a wheel, none of the drifting videos on FM7 have been done on a wheel or using simulation steering for that matter. Your comparison is moot here.
Correct^^^ Unfortunately we are just going to have to wait until a demo or the launch of the game to see whether the turn-in response feels natural or not. With the new wheel physics promised who knows! Hopefully we get a better handling game on a wheel especially with SIM steering.
