Looking for a bit of help with the 2012 MINI GP.
For whatever reason the standard car seems to be overly tail-happy. The GP is known for being quite playful but the in-game handling goes beyond that.
At the moment I’ve kept things completely standard (B642). I’d like to keep things as stock as possible but would like to correct the oversteer.
I also appreciate that this is a difficult car to get hold of in game so I do appreciate any and all help.
The rear roll center is too high*. The best fix until it’s patched is to equip a spoiler to the rear. Nothing in suspension tuning will make it significantly better.
The '09 Focus RS and Volvo 850 have similar problems, perhaps from the same cause.
Try these settings (assuming non-adjustable stock suspension):
Tire pressure 1.93 1.93 (reduce standard tire pressure by 20 clicks)
Anti-roll bar 17.14 24.51
Brakes 52% 125%
Diff acceleration 49%
Diff deceleration 0%
Does anyone know if the game developers are aware of the issue? If not… is there a way we can inform them and is it likely that things would get fixed?
Thanks for that.
If you have any suggestions for Race suspension then I’m happy to install it and give it a try.
I’d prefer to use Race Suspension over Race Tyres and a wing but if the wing is needed then the wing is needed.
Install race suspension and give me the updated weight and I get you the tune.
Updated Vehicle Stats:
POWER 215HP
TORQUE 280NM
WEIGHT 1139KG
FRONT 61%
DRIVETRAIN FWD
In terms of upgrades you’ve got the…
-Race Suspension
-Race Differential
-Race Anti-Roll bars, and
-Race brakes
…to play with. I’ve also added the max width of rear tyres to help. All this is included in the above statistics.
Thanks for all the help and information so far.
Try these settings:
Tire pressure 1.93 1.93 (reduce standard tire pressure by 20 clicks)
Camber -2.8 -2.5
Toe 0.0 0.0
Caster 5.0
Anti-roll bar 13.42 20.79
Springs 109.4 81.8
Ride height 12.7 12.7
Rebound 12.7 13.0
Bump 4.7 4.9
Brakes 52% 125%
Diff acceleration 49%
Diff deceleration 0%
Can’t get Rebound to 12.7 and 13.0. Max value is 10. I’ve assumed that you perhaps meant 2.7 and 3.0?
That means you installed rally suspension not race suspension right?
The simplest way to model a vehicle’s suspension is by defining a floating point, the roll center, below the center-of-gravity (CG). When cornering applies lateral forces at the CG, the car rotates over the roll center. The farther the roll center is below the CG, the more roll will occur with a given spring/anti-roll bar stiffness. If the roll center is closer to the CG, the car will roll less, increasing responsiveness, but it will also have less peak grip, give less feedback and be more touchy at the limit. It feels to me as though the JCW’s front roll center is set ok (good roll, good grip), and the rear is set too high (almost no roll, very touchy).
This method is called a force-based roll center. It only requires 1 fixed point in space to define the center-of-gravity, and 2 more fixed points, one for each axle, at each axle defining the static roll-centers. For it’s simplicity, it does not correctly emulate a geometric roll center, which is more difficult to measure, because while the totality of the suspension linkages and springs do tend to roll around a fixed height, the range of behavior/reactions is far more complex than a fixed point, and requires practically every single joint and linkage to model correctly.
TL;DR https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I8zUdNHCpd8/UoJWIpD-2EI/AAAAAAAAATw/dRjzGKoArhE/s1600/RC.jpg
Look at where the center of gravity is, then the roll center. In Forza, lateral forces are applied at the CG, rolling the car around the roll center like a pendulum. I assume… the rear of the JCW has it’s roll center set too high, causing better response, less roll, and poorer stability.
P.S. If I’m wrong, and Forza is actually on the level of iRacing and Assetto Corsa (that is, it does have proper suspension–I think it was Chris that said in a YT video about FM7’s FFB that “all the necessary stuff is already there for mechanical trail FFB”–you were lying unless Forza does have these things), please, inform me.
Probably not. You can submit a support ticket, or hope they see this thread. The 959 had “a handling bug” that was fixed 2 patches ago. With luck, all of the cars mentioned will mysteriously drive better in a patch or two.
The 1969 Fairlady Z 432 feels similar. Race reinforcement>stock reinforcement makes it easier to handle, though the behavior is still present. Noticed it first with the Forza widebody. No significant difference with the stock body. With race bracing, I had it set up with 25 front ARB and 1.00 rear to stop oversteering. It reminds me of the E30 M3 I could never make handle cleanly. I also set up a 1964 Impala earlier that did the same, even as AWD. At this point I’m wondering if it is actually just a suspension geometry thing, that Forza’s suspension is more advanced that I gave it credit for. That’s what I chalked the Volvo 850, '09 Focus RS, and JCW’s natures up to last month. I’m not sure now. The FE M5 gave me trouble too, I remember now… the normal E34 M5 is ok IIRC.
I use race bracing in practically all of my builds because it make suspension tuning easier and more advantageous (in cars that don’t mysteriously oversteer with neutral settings). I couldn’t tell much difference between different levels of reinforcement in the JCW.
I tried this car out last night, my experience was the higher I set LSD deceleration, the less lift-off oversteer it had.
If the tunes you’re trying don’t work for you I’ll post one up later. All it really needed (at least for me) was anti roll bars, an lsd, and big rear tires, and the PI was still the same as stock at 642.
Adding race suspension can help even more, but raised PI to 644.
If you are using simulation steering, I would recommend setting it to normal to drive this car.
How come I set up all my other FWDs with 1 front and 30 rear ARB and they barely handle neutrally while this one oversteers even stock?
Edit: the tune I had in A800 was from before I started playing ranked and upped my tuning game to reasonable levels. I’m working on a tune for it now to drive similar to stock but better. Will update when it’s done.
Here it is. It’s not perfect but I’m 100% burnt out on Forza right now.
Upgrades:
Race fuel, race ignition, race engine block (all optional) street flywheel (not optional)
Race brakes, rally suspension, race anti-roll bars F and R
Street transmission, race differential
Tires 28/28
Alignment -1/-2 camber, 0/0 toe, 7 caster
Anti-roll bars 1.00/30.00
Springs 286.1/184.1, ride height 5.7/5.7 (stock equivalent)
Dampers 3.4/2.1 on both rebound and bump
Brake bias 52%, pressure to your preference
Diff 50/0, might be ok at 30/0, especially if you don’t add the power upgrades
Can you provide the weight & weight distribution of that build?
His setup assumes race suspension.
Yes, in the upgrades list, rally is in bold font.
I use imperial units. They should be reading in lb/inch, not kgf/cm. Once you set them you can change the units back.
I spent over an hour hotlapping and tweaking my setup. It’s a little softer than stock, especially in the rear, I think it works well for the stock tires. Increasing the front roll bar to 1.50-2.00 makes it a little more stable, and increases terminal understeer. Increasing the rear to 40 (my Mugen Civic is 1F 65R) further reduces understeer but by that point it’s lifting the inside rear tire in most corners and you might not like how it drives. The Mugen has no issues with one rear tire in the air half the time, good car.
Camber you can (carefully) increase to -2 or even -3 in the front. The rear I had up to -4 at one point though it felt very tight.
Dampers, 1:1 bump:rebound is not usually recommended. I use it frequently especially before the springs are dialled in because it maximizes response and makes any imbalance or odd behaviors most apparent. You might like to check out this tuning calculator
https://www.dltuning.co.uk/tuneityourself
for trying different damper settings or different overall spring rates. I use my personal spreadsheet, or my phone calculator, to balance the dampers and ballpark the springs. Spring balance in Forza, when you’re close to perfect, is extremely sensitive and 2-3 pounds of 300 the wrong direction can break a good tune. So, adding a turbo or weight reduction will break the balance and testing and tweaking is the only way to get the best numbers, after ballparking to the 1% range. Dampers and roll bars aren’t as sensitive to balance, within a few % is usually ok (FWDs need aggressive roll bars to not understeer on corner exit).
I’d like to revise this statement; 1:1 bump:rebound is a solid choice on any car. Lowering rebound a bit further can improve response, peak grip, and smooth transition into oversteer/understeer–the car will be easier to drive fast.
Were talking about two completely different builds here - you cannot slap the same tune on both.
I provided the tune for this build which uses race suspension:
Sure, it’s race brakes/bars, rally springs and street flywheel less than stock, and stock.
Look, I’m not upset that you try to help people with your apps, because it seems like you do. It feels sometimes like you’re deliberately spreading misinformation. Your app’s tunes are often better than the default tunes, but really, that’s a low bar to clear.
