Tune Testing Please

Greeting tuning folk. I’m hopefully getting more into tuning in F6. I like to build grip cars so all my builds are AWD. I never really got into the more technical aspects of tuning in 5, things like diff settings, spring rates and ARB where kinda missed. I just played with tyre pressures, toe, aero and a little gearing for max acceleration. I’m here to learn basically, so if some clever folk could have a look/drive with a few of my tunes and let me know what you think, I’d appreciate it. They are built for acceleration a grip/handling. I have spent 2 days setting up three cars. They’re under my username and called " AWD Calc Diff ". The cars are :-

B Class 65 Mini

S Class KTM X-Bow

R Class Koeniggsegg Agera

As I’ve said I’m here to learn, so please be as honest as possible with the constructive criticism. I run with TCS on as I’m quite crap. Steering is SIM, ABS on usually, although I’m trying to ween myself off that. Auto gears too as I can’t begin to fathom manny gears.

Thanks for reading and please let me know where I can move forward :slight_smile:

I haven’t driven an Agera as yet. I’ll grab your tune and give it a run or two. About your assists. If you can manage to run without TCS and ABS you will be much faster with practice. When I first started racing in earlier Forza games I was hooked on ABS. By Forza 3 I was learning how to tune and made some cars with lower brake pressures so they wouldn’t lock up as easily without ABS. That’s how I learned to go without ABS. I’ve gotten to the point where I like cars with higher brake pressures now. Normally in the 150-160 range. Going without TCS is a similar matter. It requires finer throttle control on the trigger. Just like breaking. And then, a very few cars just have to have TCS. There’s no driving them without it.

OK, I’ve given the Agera a few drives. First I’d like to say this shouldn’t really be an AWD setup. If you are only going to drive AWD cars you will miss so much that this game has to offer.

I didn’t have a real easy time driving your car at first. The brake pressure seemed pretty low and took some adjustment on my part. I’ll go thru it step by step.

Tire Pressure: It is too high. When they got up to temperature they were all over 33.5 PSI. I like mine right around 32.5. Tire temps were good at between 205 and 210… Drop 1 PSI from all.
Camber seemed ok. Tire temps were even.
The car was understeering a bit. It may need a roll bar adjustment but I think it has more to do with it being AWD. You have to tune the front diff much as you would a FWD car. It should use a very low decel setting or maybe even none at. I don’t tune many AWD cars but I remember using a zero setting on the front decel. You also need to worry about the torque distribution. I’m not sure where it should be on your car but I’m guessing between 70-80% to the rear. If this setting is too low it may cause understeer as well.

Hope this was helpful. Can’t help much more without knowing what your settings actually are. The Agera seems like it could be a great car and you have inspired me to build one. Will let you know when it’s done. It will be RWD tho! :slight_smile:

Thank you very much for the input Lugnuts. I have not touched the camber yet, purely the diff, springs, aero, tyres, toe. The AWD’s I do tend to understeer a bit but I like the grip in the corner, to be fair if I could get my throttle trigger happy fingers a little more adept I may not need the AWD, I did have a great Dodge ACR that was an RWD on 5 and that was great. The front Decel setting is on 0, the rear 5 I think. I’ve just logged off so I’ll have a check tomorrow. I’ve not checked the torque distribution either.

I just used an A Class Scooby I tuned in the Elite Ghost League, it was crap, I did two good laps of Spa and came dead last and 10 seconds behind. The car was just way too slow.

I’ll have a play with the brake pressure. I usually run a 110 and pulsate the trigger on braking.

Again, thanks for your time and input, appreciate it. :slight_smile:

Here’s the settings for the Koenigsegg Lugnuts -

Both tires at 29psi
Final Drive 3.97
0-60mph 2.057
0-100mph 4.722
Top Speed 200.4mph
Front Camber -2.0̊
Rear Camber -0.7̊
Toe Front 0.0̊
Toe Rear 0.1̊
Front Caster 5.0̊
NO ANTI ROLL BAR ( Which I’m surprised I didn’t put on )
Front Spring 632.2
Rear Spring 742.0
Ride Height Front 3.2
Ride Height Rear 3.7
Rebound Front 8.4
Rebound Rear 8.7
Bump Stiff Front 6.2
Bump Stiff Rear 6.4
Aero both set on Max Cornering
Brake Balance 46%
Force 120%
Front Diff Acell 30%
Front Diff Decel 0%
Rear Diff Acell 70%
Rear Diff Decel 10%
Centre Balance 68%

In all honesties I’ve not yet really figured out what to do with the Bump Stiff, Rebound, Alignment, I just try to put a bit of negative Camber on to counteract the understeer you get from the AWD.

Thanks again

I don’t even need to drive it to see your bump stiffness is way too high and rear decel lock too low.

Bump stiffness should never be above 50% of the rebound stiffness as you’ll be creating a car that skittish over bump, peaks and dips… That set up I bet behaves like a pogo stick. With the rear end trying to pass the front hence the rear toe??

I’ll go get my hands on one and try your tune to be fair though.

Edit;
Ok I’ve done 10 laps round Silverstone with your agera… It’s definitely a pogo stick and I agree with the other chap the breaks aren’t there, the lack of ARB doesn’t help, it’s got some phenominal understeer then snaps randomly and violently to oversteer. 1st to 4th are too short , too much lock on front acel lock , suspensions not set properly in the front… It’s too soft allowing the rears to actually lit off of the track.

This car in the past has not been very good with an AWD swap so I’ve been keeping it RWD or not using it (FH2). If you’re determined to keep it AWD try the changes I made in the quote - it might make the car a little more friendly for you.

Just managed to sneak a front and rear ARB on and keep it in R class.

I’ll have a look see what I can do tomorrow going to run out of time before work today

Just put a flash tune on it. It’s not a finished tune by any means but try it out see what you think. I know it understeer a heavily as the moment but like I said it’s not close to done

Search for RBBTS in the description you’ll find it.

Cheers Rabbits, some good info there. I’ll go give yours a try. As I said it’s all about learning how to tune for me so I thoroughly appreciate the input.

Ok I’ve just done 4 laps in my tune, then 4 laps in your tune Lugnuts. I felt your tune understeers a lot more, plus there’s a little more tyre screech on corner entry, plus the brakes felt a little too sharp for me. I thought this is a bit weird, then noticed I shaved 2 seconds off my time on the first lap. The car was a lot smoother, faster, less skittish on the bumps. Cap doffed to you kind sir.

Then a ray of light finally shone upon me. I’m building cars to match my raggiddy a$$sed driving style. If I learn to drive properly, then build the cars to match, I should be a whole lot faster.

So apologies if it sounds like I’m bashing your tune, on the contrary, it’s very good.

On the last two laps I slowly braked a lot more before the corner instead of ooshing down the inside, braking last min, then trying to oversteer the car round the corner.

Bearing in mind I have the TCS and STM on too.

I think it’s time I started from the drawing board and learnt to drive, then maybe tune.

I think you must be talking about Rabbit’s tune. I haven’t put mine up yet. :slight_smile: It’s on my list tho.

You might have the right idea in getting some practice driving before you start to tune a lot. You will definitely need to start driving without assists so you feel what your car is doing and then correct it in your set up. Using assists can mask this. Grab some tunes that you know are good. That means just about anything in this sub forum. I just posted a FWD 81 Ford Fiesta in D class. Right now it’s sitting at #41 at Long Beach East. It should be easy for you to drive and it is a blast. Sometimes it’s better to start learning these things in lower classes and gradually apply the things you’ve learned in faster cars.

Keep at it. I was in your shoes once. Practice and studying make a huge difference here.

1 Like

Like I said it was just a rough tune up… It’s RWD and rebuilt too by the way. How’d you like them apples?? :wink:

I know about the understeer I’m off tomorrow so I’ll go through it properly but I’m glad you feel it’s improved over your own version.

I agree with lugnut though go back to basics, I’d suggest starting in D class, I’ve got a damn good Civic have a look in my tuning thread. Thinks it’s a 2011 civic type R could be wrong though it’s really tight and with that I mean it runs like its on rails. It’s not super fast but it’ll help you with finding the quickest route through a corner.

It’s RWD too but with the lower horsepower and that set up you gotta work hells hard to loose it.

Ps nothing wrong with screeching tyres…, it’s when they start smoking you’ve got problems.

Ah Cheers PPi, didn’t notice your post. I’ll take a look thanks.

Edit*

That’s helped too PPi, thanks. It hugs the road a lot better, a lot more grounded, still understeers a little but I’m now knowing that’s my crappy driving style, also I noticed there was a little bit of lift off oversteer, again this could be me though.

Thoroughly appreciate the help guys.

1 Like

Cheers dudes.

I noticed I like to build like little go karts, if that makes sense. I made a kick ■■■ X Bow in F5. I’ve just done a quick build on a Caterham too which did me well in the Elite Ghost League last night. I’m also thinking that some cars may be good for fast laps, and some better in Multi as you know you can’t always get the lines you want.

I can’t stand the C/D/E Class cars, just a monotonous drone and going nowhere. I’m also not a big fan of the P and X to be fair.

Yes it was Rabbits tune, sorry.

Can I ask another favour please guys?. The evidence is pretty much there from the changes you’ve made, also from what you’ve told me to change. I like evidence, I also like science, I do not understand the science behind it so much. For instance what to change/counteract when X/Y/Z is happening. As I said the evidence is there so I value what you guys say immensely.

OK Kid, my Agera is up and I’m quite happy with it. On the test track at Hockenheim Nat. I set a time good enough to be in the top 70. And I did post LB time at LeMans Old Mulsanne at #68. That’s a good thing. A handling track and a speed track. I have more time left in it for LeMans as I didn’t quite do it as well as I could have. This car should be very good in general use.

C, D and E is where you’ll learn your race craft, tracks, lines, braking points, you’ll also boost your reaction times because the racing is less predictable because more people make mistakes.

I’m not a fan of P or X either… S is the highest I’m prepared to explore at the moment as I’m having to relearn how to race to the same effect I was on previous titles.

Ok so. If your suffering from either oversteer or understeer you need to figure out the cause before you waste your time messing with the set up because you risk making the issue worse. So let’s go by this example.

You have a Lotus Elise 111S and you’ve got a very loose rear end all of the time. Now the throttle side is easy to fix. Drop the rear tyre pressures by about .5 to 2.0 PSI until you feel that’s improved your general traction it’ll also smooth out the bumps and turn the car more to understeer so keep testing every time you make a change restart the test drive that’ll give you a clean slate every time. Once you’re happy with that then start dealing with the Diff lock in 3% stages until you find the sweet spot for your driving style.

Now however you’re suffering oversteer on the breaks or lifting off the throttle. Simple fix increase the decel diff lock this will prevent 1 wheel locking and require greater force to lock both rears.

Now you’re suffering understeer on entry and oversteer mid to exit. Dial this out you need to start playing with springs, damping, alignment and ARBs. So we’ll look at ARBs first.

Now to deal with the oversteer mid to exit you’ll want to soften the rear ARB but never really past 60% of what you’ve set the front to or you’ll start loosing the rear through chassis flex overloading 1 wheel and unloading the other.
So if you’re running 28 front you don’t really want to drop the rear past 13. This will give you an understeery base. You can deal with that by speeding up turn in and resetting the camber front and rear.

The closer your camber to 0 the higher your caster should be because of the way the camber works. Think of it like a shopping trolley… High caster makes it quick steering low caster you’ll get a skateboard.

Now the camber depends on a few things including the cars weight and centre of gravity. A low lightweight car theoretically needs less camber front and rear because there is effectively less weight to transfer and it’s a more immediate transfer.

For the springs you can use a simple formula.
Weight X dristribution X tyre pressure

So a car weighting 3646lbs 51% front distribution with 30.5psi front and 28.5psi rear the formula would look like this.
3646x0.51x0.305=
3646x0.49x0.285=

If that’s too soft divide it by 0.8 to get a stiffer setting.

Damping set up is easy look at your telemetry you want the rebound to be set so the tyres are pushed back to the ground quickly over bumpy sections and peaks so check your suspension travel in telemetry as well as tyre loads.
Bump stiffness should be set fairly soft in comparison to the rebound because that setting effects how big of a jolt the suspension recieves from bump and kerbs which has a huge effect on balance. The smoother the ride the more stable the car the harder you can push before you find the limit.

The key to a good build is the balance. If it’s turbo charged leave them stock and flatten the initial boost curb with other upgrades, if it’s supercharged focus on using the mid range of the engine more than the top end.

Build the motor to its strengths not its weakness. Same with grip and aero. If the car doesn’t need it don’t add it.

Top tip when setting your car up with aero. Leave it till last create mechanical grip first and foremost then deal with the aero. Good mechanical grip beats aero 9/10 if your car grips good to begin with it’ll run like a train when you add it in.

1 Like

Mk2 tune finished product for the agera

Give that a shot again search for RBBTS the old set up has been taken down

2.02 at Silverstone during test run, for some reason it Just would not grip on the leaderboard. Very frustrating very strange.

Thank you very much again guys, a lot to get stuck into there. Plenty to learn, plenty to play with. I’m on holiday tomorrow for a week so I’ll have a good crack this afternoon after work.

I knocked 3 seconds off my Spa " Time to shine " time last night, very pleased with that. Also built an A Class RWD Caterham which handles very well.

1 Like