[Space Mithrilos's Garage] Mith's Work on RWDs (Updated : 10/06/2019)

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Hi there Racers !

I’ve been playing Forza since Horizon 3, so I am quite new into the batch, but !
I’m fond of racing, cars, like anyone else here and so I wanted to do more than being good at race, I wanted to tune them myself.
To me there is nothing better than to win with a car you like and learned to drive AND to tune it yourself.

And because tuning in the game is one of the core part, I really wanted to share my tunes, to progress and to earn thoses precious stars !

But I won’t if my tunes are bad so I need you guys ! It is egoïst of me I know, but on the other hand, I would be really happy to know that there is players out there, that like my tunes and use it to drive and have fun !

So now the real question : what do I do ?
Well I have tested RWDs, AWDs, and even FWDs and I know pretty much the way that AWDs are really competitive on the high Tiers.
On the other hands RWDs are the best (IMHO) for the feels : more challenging and more personality in thoses cars. It is more my thing.

So I fixed myself some goals : To find how to build RWDs cars so they can be fun to drive, fast or even competitive, and doesn’t lose their personality.
I don’t really like to swap things, so I don’t switch engines unless it is from the same constructor.

In the end, I don’t want to be just another “Tune guy”, so I gave to them (my tunes) the way I race : with the idea to “suicide yourself into corners”. This is where I got the feels, some car do this better than others, let’s find out !

to be more precise on the tunes I share, It is all about control capability with a bout of Oversteer, I don’t think it is really possible to negate fully the spining on an RWD, so I tried to work with more than to delete it.

The recap : I do RWDs Tune for track and rally go to my GT in game : “Space Mithrilos” I’m open for ideas, and opinions.

I started to share really recently so there is not so much things, yet, but I’m working on content ! I won’t do all cars though.

Thank you for reading and see you guys into the game !

[List of available Tunes & In the process]

“Pure RWDs Tunes”

X / Koenigsegg Agera RS
X / Pagani Zonda R Forza Edition
X / McLaren 720S PO
X / Mclaren Senna
X / Mclaren P1
X / Ultima Evolution Coupe 1020
X / Ferrari FXX K
S2 / GTA Spano
S2 / AMG GT R
S2 / Porsche 911 Carrera S
S1 / BMW M4 GTS

“Pure RWDs Rally Tunes”

A / Alpine A110 1600S
S1 / Renault 5 Turbo Forza Edition

“Drift Monsters”
S1 / Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type-A
S1 / 1991 BMW M3
S1 / Subaru BRZ
S1 / Nissan Silvia Spec R (special Fast&Furious with 2002 Nissan GT R engine)
S1 / Alfa Romeo Gulia Quadrifoglio Forza Edition
S1 / Dodge Charger SRT Demon
A / Mercedes-Benz Tankpool24 Racing Truck aka “Driftroyer” ( My new favourite toy )

Mith’s Work (More Balanced Tunes for RWDs, focused on Safe Handling and well rounded cars)

S2 / Funco Motorsports F9 - Rally
X / Maserati MC12 Forza Edition
X / Pagani Zonda R Forza Edition ( I’m proud of this one ! )
X / Pagani Huayra BC ( I wish Pagani go all out with an R version like the Zonda…)
X / Mclaren Senna ( Brutal Cornering )
X / Koenigsegg Agera RS ( 1341 HP Tamed : Done )
X / Koenigsegg Regera ( Shifting gears anyone ? :smiley: )
X / Mclaren P1 ( My favourite car for showing off and cruise, can drift ! )
X / Mclaren 720S PO (Cool looking car, and a fast one too !)
X / Ultima Evolution Coupe 1020 (Dunno what time I can do on the Goliath with this)
X / Ferrari FXX
A / Renault Alpine A110 1600S (Light is Right) - Rally
S1 / Renault 5 Turbo Forza Edition (Old Legends from the past) - Rally
S1 / Bac Mono (F1 feeling :D)
S1 / BMW M4 GTS
S1 / Dodge Charger SRT Demon
S1 / Lancia Stratos HF Stradale - Rally ( So fun car )
S1 / Dodge Challenger 1970 - Freeride, Forzathon live and Arenas
S2 / Pagani Huayra (Great car for cruising)
S2 / Pagani Zonda Cinque (Zombieuk’s favourite)
S2 / Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG

“Special Note” : I don’t really like to swap transmission and/or engine, but there is some cars in the game that greatly benefit from doing it, for the purpose of experiment, I allow myself to try out new things. The newly Apollo is one of those car in wich I want to do some tests with it.

S2 / Apollo I.E (I love that car… check out my “The White Dragon livery !”) (EDIT : some of you may have already downloaded the livery. I updated it because I’ve found some mistakes I made on it, sorry ! You can pick it again.)
X / Apollo I.E ( Called “Mith’s Work (X)” ) Upgraded Version of my S2 Tune.
X / Apollo I.E ( Called “Light Dragon” With the Ferrari Racing V12 engine. I found out that with that very light engine you can bring down the Apollo to 1004Kg -2213lbs and reach 3.1G force !) I do love light cars with Atmospheric engine, so lets try out ! )
X / Apollo I.E ( Called “Extreme” The most agile and grip settup for RWD, slow in straight, insane on corners. Love It )
X / Apollo I.E ( Called “Apollo V8 S”. The engine is swapped, I know, but now the car is very balanced between grip and speed. perhaps the best I can get with this car as an RWD )

[Incoming]

? / An Abarth because I found this fun.
? / More cars A Class and under this category.

1 Like
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I made a recent discovery into mechanics, and working on it to apply this to cars. For now, I’m really happy about what thoses changes are doing to the cars. I’m going to post them soon into the Mith’s work category. This pack is my “research center and devellopement” for RWDs in some ways. So thoses tunes might be updated a lot.

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I also accept request, but it will vary if I am able or not to do as demanded. Also I don’t tune AWD or FWD, unless very rare exeptions.
(Please, don’t feel offended if I don’t comply to some requests. Thank you !)

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Two new tunes : The Ferrari FXX & the Lancia Stratos HF Stradale

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There is a special project I had in mind for a time now. Mostly when I do a Forzathon Live event or when I play Infected or alike, I often want to use a car I like without the need to change it. But sadly not all car can do everything. In the end I think most of the Old Muscles can be surprisingly multipurpose.

So I think I’m going to work to build some fun RWD Muscles for Forzathon Live, and Arena games.

To do so I got some objectives :

The car must be able to handle dirt roads and bumps
The car must have enough power to reach above 320 kph (200 mph)
The car must be able to drift
The car must be able to turn ( obviously, that is some obscure objective I know ! )

For that my first subject is my beloved '70 Challenger, a car I loved since I’ve seen the movie Vanishing Point !

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New Tune added, S2 Apollo I.E (with The White Dragon Livery)

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A lots of Apollo I.E Tunes recently, this car is busying my mind quite a lot.

The gold rule into racing is “Balance” : for a car to be fast it need Grip, Traction, Acceleration, a good Braking power and max Speed.
To optimize your time, the car must be good in all of them. A good racer focus on constancy when it comes to Time laps.

The thing is, that in FH ( in general I guess ) AWD cars got so much stability and can benefit a lots of power ( twin turbos ftw ) that is why they are so popular : brutal accelerations and top notch high end speed.
But focusing on too much on one of the big Five attribute ( see gold rule above ) means you sacrifice something else. Here for AWD it is mostly an added weigh = less braking power.

Another thing is that AWD in Forza got way to much understeer for my own taste. As a racer, you push the limits, you take risk and go forward or crash if you fail.
On a track and especially on corners, that means mostly that you go into the corner with more speed that you would usually do, or even accelerate at the entry ( Fast in ). I call that myself “suicide corner”
( a dark name I know ! ) but with AWD and is understeering, you totally negate that. If you accelerate in the middle of a corner and your car go outward of it, it is the end. No flexibility you are forced to brake or lose speed to come back on the Line.

With RWD when you enter a corner, if you accelerate your car will mostly plunge inward, this allow you some risky, but very fast move ( the most used situation to explain that : when you overtake someone in a corner ! ).

So why I am telling all of this ? Well with RWD, to be able to plunge with your car, you need tons of downforce. The lighter you are the better and to counter act AWD stability, you don’t use Turbos ( turbo lag mean spin to win in a corner with RWDs).

I tried every RWD hypercars, track toys in the game, and every time I always got a problem : Lack of max speed or lack of downforce.

I’ve heard that some people had done around 6min30 for a Goliath lap. I guess it was with an AWD transmission.
For all of my experience gathered into racing games I know that I’m taking Goliath corners properly ( I don’t use any Line help ) and so that my weakness must be in the fast part of the Goliath ( The two big straight lines in Edinburgh ).

For now the Newly Apollo is checking all the right point for me, but yet I’m missing something…

How can I Tune an RWD that can use a good 3.0 G capacity, with almost zero loss of traction from start with a weight around 1000Kg -2213lbs and can compete with the upper class of high speed cars ( around 400kph - 250mph ).

If you want to participate to the reflexion, you are free to “voice” it !

I’m going to share for what I think is the best I could get from the Apollo I.E RWD with the Ferrari Engine all maxed without roll cage tune called “Extreme”

RACING V12 FERRARI ATMOSPHERIC

TIRES
24.9
23.3

GEARING
4.60
4.20
2.93
2.15
1.67
1.35
1.12

ALIGNMENT
Camber
-3.0
-2.0
Toe
-0.5
0.5
Front Caster
7.0

ARB
31.80
33.15

SPRINGS
561.6
586.9
Heigh
4.1
5.1

DAMPERS
9.8
10.2

7.3
7.6

AERO
461
681

BRAKES
55
100

DIFFERENTIAL
50
50

I have an option where I use much less camber for better traction but less agility in corners.

EDIT : I am testing another engine : the Racing V8, that can use an altenative to Turbos ( no turbo lag ! ), but there is so much added weight to this…
Futur tests will told if it is an ok option.

RACING V8 SUPERCHARGED

TIRES
24.9
23.3

GEARING
2.70
4.00
2.60
1.90
1.50
1.20
1.00

ALIGNMENT
Camber
-0.0
-0.5
Toe
-0.5
0.5
Front Caster
7.0

ARB
31.80
33.15

SPRINGS
561.6
586.9
Heigh
4.1
5.1

DAMPERS
9.8
10.2

7.3
7.6

AERO
352
507

BRAKES
55
100

DIFFERENTIAL
50
50

*less agile (still 3.0 G) but much much better high end speed.

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I tried your Extreme tune on Festival Circuit and it drives very well. Handiing was a little bit more tricky on Ambleside Sprint, especially in the hairpins.

You may want to try these settings on your Extreme build which are a little bit faster for me on the Festival Circuit and easier on Ambleside Sprint:

Tire pressure 29.0 29.0
Final Drive 3.34, stock gears
Camber -2.0 -1.5
Toe 0.0 0.0
Caster 5.0
Anti-roll bar 9.00 9.45
Springs 505.0 491.5
Ride height 4.0 5.0
Rebound 15.6 15.3
Bump 5.7 5.5
Aero 461 681
Brakes 52% 125%
Diff acceleration 75%
Diff deceleration 74%

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Hi, I tend to tune my cars with a bit over hyperreacting behavior, I agree that it lack some softness. But this is due to my personal style of driving more that anything else, I’m going to try out your settings, but I think that already your ARB are way too soft ( I calculate ARB, Spring and Dampers accordingly to mass repartition of the car ). but anyway I’ll give it a try, Thank you for sharing your opinion :slight_smile:

EDIT : After some testing, I can tell I like the stability of the tune already, but I feel like the car turn like a brick, Looks more like a slow in fast out behavior, that is nice but not my type. I added
the Toe -0.5, 0.5 and felt much better for me, I guess if it is too much you can try to lower it a bit like : -0.3, 0.3 … In the details I think it is more about personal preference, but your tune is right too !

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In the end, because I really liked the stability of your tune, I tried to mix a bit of what you made and my things for my V8 tune

So I generally increased aero, softened qerking handling, but not too much so the car still got the spark. I got this :

Tire pressure 24.9 23.3
Final Drive3.49 ( Gearing is the only part where I don’t really shine, because this is very hard for me )
4.00
2.30
1.60
1.20
0.95
0.80
Camber -2.0 -1.5
Toe -0.3 0.3
Caster 5.0
Anti-roll bar 9.00 12.45
Springs 505.0 491.5
Ride height 4.0 5.0
Rebound 13.6 15.3
Bump 5.7 7.5
Aero 461 681
Brakes 55% 100% ( I use ABS so 125% is useless for me )
Diff acceleration 75%
Diff deceleration 74%

Please, tell me what you think of it !

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Will check it out for sure!

EDIT: Checked it out on Festival Circuit and Ambleside Sprint and frankly liked your first tune better. I’m not a big fan of toe tuning as it usually creates more problems than it solves and it shows. If you leave toe at 0/0 it feels instantly better, yet still has some problems in the hairpins on Ambleside Sprint.

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What “problems” are you talking about ? spinning ? For RWDs with hight HP, it is very if not impossible to totally negate spinning.

The “Extreme build” is for short circuit while my V8 S is not, IMO with a bit of toe I don’t really get problems.

EDIT : In the end, think the problem is gearing, this is only thing that can really make your car spin when you accelerate after an hairpin,

The problem with the V12 ferrari, is that I can’t go over 190 mph with max aero, that mean being beaten by anything else if there is a good straight.

I keep experiencing some things, perhaps I will found a way to do this good.

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With problems I mean some sort of imbalance while turning. From my experience toe creates issues during turn-in or mid-turning. Meaning the car doesn’t feel natural and is harder to predict while turning.

You are right though, gearing has an effect since being in too high rpms creates understeer on turn-in, likewise too low rpm creates oversteer on turn-in.

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For me the advantage of toe, is that you can be more agressive into corners and to beat AWD this is the only opening I can get, braking later and going in faster that the others. But I get the point.

I’m bad at tuning Gears, and I don’t really understand the in-game description. For now I’m taking a break, the time to think about a solution.

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New tune : A class Mercedes-Benz Tankpool24 Racing Truck aka “Driftroyer”