I have been unsuccessful in getting feedback from Forza Enforcement and Feedback on the support page ticket I submitted for what seems like a simple topic to answer (a simple “yes its cheating” or “no its not cheating”). It’s funny that if I report an inappropriate livery that it gets addressed in 24 hrs, but when I ask about whether or not “small car camping” or “roof/ledge jumping” is just an aspect of the game or if it is cheating, I get no feedback.
I want to know if I should be taking the time to screen shot and report players that “camp” in a playground game adventure using small cars or people that jump on to structures, roofs, and ledges. Especially, now that we have Seasonal Playground Games Events, I would like to get some feedback. I am just trying to either be part of a solution (if it is even a problem) or let me know if these are acceptable tactics and I will simply bring my small car to the Castle or the Railyard to combat camping tactics and will be more than happy to play in that manner if that was the intended design of the game. There is no glitch, exploit or mod necessary to use these spots and it almost seems as if some of these spots were intentionally sized a certain way by the developers to encourage teams bring a variety of cars to address situations (similar to needing different class characters in MMORPGs - Healer, Tank, DPS, etc.). One could argue a team needs a Big Truck/Car (defender/rammer/blocker), Fast/Agile Car (tagger/scorer), Small Car (camper/hider), Offroad Truck (water/pond runner), Buggy (dune runner), etc. to have a complete coverage of needs and an efficient team. Did the developers design maps to encourage a balance of different types of vehicles (placement of water, bumps/jumps, small gaps, ledges/roofs, etc.) to encourage a variety of vehicle selections? I would admit that if that was indeed the intent that is pretty well thought out, as this does indeed force my convoy to communicate who will bring what vehicles to certain maps so we don’t get caught off guard by people hiding in gaps, or using offroad trucks in the water to run circles around our hyper cars. So we do indeed end up having to bring a variety of vehicles to address specific conditions of a map.
With that would a game developer like to provide some input:
Is jumping onto structures, roofs, or ledges and camping in those spots considered cheating? There are multiple spots: at the Castle (the North walkway from the big sand dune, the ledge adjacent to the jump off the castle wall), Mortimer Garden (the ruin arch, the building trellis), Quarry (on the warehouse in the center, the ledge above the tiered section against the map boundary, inside the metal lacing of the conveyor ramp, on the roof of the ruin houses), Mudkickers (on/in the concrete tubes). Don’t get me wrong, some of these take skill and practice (sometimes luck) to land these jumps, but it results in camping no different than a small car in a gap. Most jumps can be reached by any vehicle but some of these jumps require certain vehicles/tuning to reach and land especially in A class, the same way that gaps can only be accessed by certain vehicles.
Is using small cars to access gaps located around the map considered cheating? Bamburgh Castle (gap in the castle), Railyard (there are 4 spots, one that only a Peel P50 or Trident can get in, two between train cars that very narrow cars can access and one between the train car and warehouse wall that more slightly wider vehicles can access). See some screen shots below of me re-enacting these spots.
I dont think is cheating. But only because it is equally counterable and limited in solutions unless start putting up magic walls. It will mean solo will become a small car meta. With class limited on the seasonal events, it can be moot with no available cars.
The only exception to these is if some exploit is how it is accomplished. Stuff like jumping to roof or ledge is something again other players can do.
It’s also possible to play cheap in this weeks Playground Games. The players who are the “kings” in your team could park inside those concrete cylinders while the rest of you could block both sides of the cylinder making it impossible for the other team to steal the “king” status. I didn’t do it but I certainly see how it can be done.
I don’t play the games myself, but everything you describe seems like completely legitimate tactics. I expect it’s not as simple as “the smallest car is best”, and there are downsides to making that choice as well?
Yup. It is hard to tag others with small cars. Small and light bounce around making them slower overall. Narrow width and short wheelbase handling issues.
Essentially a small car has good defence, poor offence. It just feels cheap if oneside is small cars, other side all Rams.
It can seem like cheap tactics, but only way to forbid is to put up physical barriers which really isnt a hard option.
All arena games have that tactic on how to play the map. Problem with here is you need to choose car at start so cannot plan around team.
Yeah, I am of the opinion that these are perfectly legal strategies as everyone has the same exact opportunity to utilize them and it doesn’t exploit a mechanic of the game. It does create need for a variety of vehicle selections, and anyone with common sense and an understanding of the game will account for these strategies when they select their vehicle for a given map. If you get beat because an opponent hid in a gap and you have no way of getting them, I say that is your fault for not planning for it. If you can’t make a jump to tag someone camping on a roof or something, then you better start practicing that jump so you can get good at it.
What is really funny are the people that sit there right outside the gap or at the base of a roof either frustrated or messaging the person camping (unless that person is on my team, especially if they are in my way of getting in to tag the camper, then its aggravating) . All they are doing is wasting their time when they could be chasing someone else and they are just feeding into satisfaction of the camper confirming to the camper that they have just out smarted you and distracted you from accomplishing your team goal.
Interesting. I’ve been of the opinion that the jump spots are legit - accessible to all cars with driver skill - while the small car hiding spots seem like geometry exploits that should be (trivially) patched by moving the relevant objects closer together.
I do see the point that the “small car meta” adds a dimension, but it strikes me as a completely, utterly un-fun dimension. It takes zero skill to take a peel or an Abarth 500 and hide; the jumps, on the other hand, require practice and a bit of skill, and no one will make them 100% of the time. So risk/reward - if you miss, you probably get tagged.
The risk/reward balance of small car hiding is totally out of whack. The Isetta fits in all the spots, and is a perfectly acceptable car for those arenas. All reward, no risk. And is that fun for anyone? I certainly don’t want to spend 10m rocking back and forth in the same spot to stay hidden and not get booted for inactivity.
I personally would never bring an Isetta to any playground map… A Willy’s Jeep, Alfa Romeo P3, Lotus Elan, VW Class 5 Bug, Sprite MKI, Abarth 595, Maserati Tipo, Maserati 800CTF, Auto Union Type D and many others are significantly better choices, especially tuned with rally suspension and tires. I can almost guarantee if I play against a team with multiple small cars, my team will win (I’d say 95% of the time, 100% if the small cars on the other team are an Isetta, P50, or Trident) because I would be willing to bet that my small car is tuned better than theirs and once they realize they can’t sit in the same spot and hide from me, their entire game plan is out the window and I am pretty certain I will destroy them in every event in the open field, the way the game should be played. Often times, the small car users on the other team just leave once they realize they aren’t as clever as they thought they were.
It is plenty of risk in that it is a gamble. Bank all on being small, but if I bring my land rover, no reward for you. Got a superior vehicle and get into same spots. Also the Isetta will now be almost useless on the offensive. The problem really only comes into heavier play if the initial team randomize puts smalls on one team only. Even then, head to tiny spots to block immediate is an easy alternative as well if you are not small.
Most bigger vehicles will be able to get there quicker due to terrain.
It’s still fun to see everything the human mind can invent as a strategy to win a challenge, I discovered that by practicing my first arenas last week. Going directly to block the flag-taking while defenders stay to prevent scoring, using the field with skills or vehicles adapted to the conditions, it’s all part of the game and I do not consider it cheating. By cons what I find sad, it is to be abandoned by team members from the first defeat, I found myself several times alone or only two against six.
It’s not cheating, it’s win at all cost gameplay.
That seems to be the point of the game, win at all cost.
Push your team mates off checkpoints, surround the king to protect them. All fair game. Best bet, join them and make them rage quit by beating them at their own game.
Works for me, I’ve made entire teams rage quit.
I would call both of those issues poor game/level design. The people using these tactics are just playing the game as it was designed, FWIW I don’t play playground games.
The bonus boards placed into similar narrow locations and on rooftops were a neat idea and I didn’t mind them at all.
It’s not cheating but it is poor game design, and it does ruin the gameplay and waste the other teams time. I reported this via a ticket a week or so and they did respond but didn’t really say much except thanks.
There has also been a lot of point boosting going on, which is cheating and players need to be banned. I had to report someone for this yesterday although I’m not sure they will get banned or anything but if you are manipulating the point system by having your teammates leave right before the game finishes or throwing matches to get more points they should ban you and the throw away team mates accounts you’re using.
I can’t help but question the viability of this small car hiding.
I’ll admit that I’ve done it but I always felt like all I was doing was taking myself out of the game and causing the rest of my team to play a man down. I feel that by reading the other team’s movements, working with my teammates, and being proactive I can win more effectively.
PGG are more about knowing the rules of the different games, knowing the maps, being smart and well organized than having the best car and being a top notch driver… So , whatever strategy is made possible by game physics and/or environment exploit, it is perfectly legit.
It’s as much cheating as ramming is in racing. Maybe it’ll help you win, but no one is applauding your skill. Aside from on a few cringey Facebook groups, I don’t see anyone posting that they’re the greatest rammer in ranked play. I don’t know if those little-car-hiders feel like they’re awesome at this game, or get satisfaction from trolling the other team. Bottom line, if the whole session is gathered around the last uninfected player it in unranked, I quit and find another session. I don’t care if they’re on my team helping me win or not. It’s boring for everyone else on the server, and I can’t imagine how it’s fun for the person hiding. Either way, being a big troll may be funny for you, but whoever you’re trolling might be on your team tomorrow, and won’t be willing to play with you.
I wish Playground Games would put a barrier in front of the spots in a Games match that are only accessible to ~10 cars. They haven’t done that, so obviously it can’t be considered cheating or an exploit. It’s an easier fix than any scheme I’ve heard to stop rammers in racing.