You need to use race anti-roll bars & race differential.
Buy Race tire compound or at least Sport. I don’t really like the rally compound I have not found a difference in the off-road normal landmass.
Max Tire Width on rear tire.
Tire radius should be around 15-18 (xxx/xxR17), or close to it. Unlike my street builds I like a little more air volume in my tires. So not max radius, a few steps left from furthest right.
I like front and rear adjustable aero bumper and wing.
I do not buy roll cage or chassis reinforcement.
I like to drop as much weight as possible.
Weight Reduction, I always go for race.
Sometimes engine upgrades will get you more HP and Torque than a new engine. Sometimes that fancy new engine is heavy.
I like to get a twin turbo if possible, it is lighter in weight, and I don’t always upgrade it. PTG Baby Cow suggests an upgraded centrifugal supercharger. I agree if you know how to tune your gears. )
I like as much HP as possible, even if that means having stock brakes and street transmission.*
These items drop weight so I focus on them first.* [-] Exhaust ( Street, Sport, Race {Massive} )
[-] Air filter ( Sport & Race )*
[-] Intake Manifold and Throttle ( Race )*
[-] Pistons and Compression ( Sport and Race )* [-] Valves ( Race ) Usually only -1lbs
Buy more engine stuff if you can before moving on to the rest of this list.*
[-] Brakes, -4+ lbs per level.*
[-] Driveline, can be substantial, -8+ lbs per level*
[-] Clutch, will drop you -4+ lbs per level.*
[-] Transmission. -3 lbs per level, and sometimes the Street transmission gives you PI.*
[-] Flywheel, buy very, very, very, very last.* - These items can add weight so watch it. A good rule of thumb is if it adds 1HP for 3lbs it adds, then it makes up for the weight.
[+] Carborator ( Race only )*
[+] Aspiration, Supercharger more than the Turbos. Sometimes it is better to go for Cams.*
[+] Intercooler, Don’t use.*
[+] Oil and Cooling, Don’t use.* - Tune*
Tires Pressure* F 20 / R 32 Thanks Tardii on the low pressure post. ( I’ve had good luck with the front also being 24, 26, 28 )
Gearing*
Final drive: If possible highest acceleration with the fastest 0-100*
Alignment*
Camber: F 0.0 / R 0.0*
Toe: F 0.0 / R 0.0*
Front Caster: 2.0*
Anti-Roll Bars*
F 25.00 / R 15.00*
Springs*
If you used Rally springs:*
[1] Drop them as far as they will go left.*
[2] Raise either the front or the rear so that the rear are 50 lbs less than the front.*
If you used race springs, then drop them as far as the will go left. The raise the front by 50 lbs.*
Ride Height*
Max, or middle if middle is above 7.*
Damping*
Rebound: F 1.5 / R 1.5*
Bump: F 1.0 / R 1.0* - ( Thanks gtFOOTw for the tip )*
Aero*
Max if you got it.*
Differential*
FWD: 40 / 0*
RWD: 25 / 10*
AWD: 33 / 0 / 25 / 10 / 60* - Notes*
Remember this is a starting point. Modify as you see fit.*
Check your rear tire pressure midway through the race. You’ll want it to be around 33.5*
If you find yourself over-steering too much (rear end sliding around after cornering and you don’t think braking is the corrective action):* [1] Decrease Rear anti-roll bar by 1 whole point and increase Front anti-roll bar by 1 whole point. [2] Continue this process till you are happy, or you reach 35 Front and 5 Rear. [3] You can go five more rounds but only decreasing the Rear 1 whole point. [4] If you still aren’t happy, try bumping up the Front tire air PSI by 2 and then start this process over with ARBs at 25 Front, 15 Rear.
[^] Remember though try to keep cold front tire PSI no higher than 28. But, there is always an exception to every rule, so try it out and see for yourself.*
If you find yourself under-steering too much ( you find yourself ending all your turns too early):* [1] Increase Rear anti-roll bar by 1 whole point and decrease Front anti-roll bar by 1 whole point. [2] Continue this process till you are happy, or you reach 5 Front and 35 Rear. [3] You can go five more rounds but only decreasing the Front 1 whole point. [4] If you still aren’t happy, try bumping up the Front tire air PSI by 2 and then start this process over with ARBs at 25 Front, 15 Rear. [^] Remember though try to keep cold Front tire PSI no higher than 28. But, there is always an exception to every rule, so try it out and see for yourself.
Also do you mean the big gap between front and rear tyre pressure? Tardii’s post mentioned both front and rear being low (just with the rear adjusted a little).
EDIT: I am just checking if those are deliberate or typos.
Seems crazy yes? I know. I spent weeks 8+ hours a day testing this template and it works real well. ( but then again I’m Kitty, I can’t drive worth the contents of my litter box )
The no camber means the wheels don’t go all wonky when they have no traction or when they land.
The tire pressure was new, but works. Low pressure in the front with more air volume softens the landing, and since they are in essence flat, they have more surface area for grip.
You end up not needing to spend 15+ PI on front tire width.
Again, just a starting template. Run your times and add pressure when needed, etc. etc.
Also thanks to you Eduardo for helping me understand PI spending.
Thanks!
Kitty I have always said that the most important science when judging a tune is the science of laptimes. I have not tried your template yet so I don’t know if it works for me yet.
If it does work you may need a new explanation for low front tyre pressure though. Low pressure (extreme low) does not increase the contact patch. I think the bottom row is around the wrong way in the diagaram below but the key is max contact patch is not at maximum or minimum pressure.
Extremes still may work in the game though so I am not saying that low pressures are bad or wrong but they should not result in the best contact patch if the game models tyres accurately.
I totally agree, this is why I was so surprised. Physics of Racing Series (PhoRS) by Brian Beckman, PhD link in my main thread is almost all about tire contact. But then I got thinking, hey, why do those dune buggies and ATVs work so well off road? They have squishy wheels like mice. Maybe there is something to what Tardii is saying, so I tried it. Some cars loved 20, others 22, 24, 26, 28. The real key was to keep all the tires a bit bigger in air volume than I normally do and the front squishier than the rear. Making sure the rear psi was at 33.5 mid track. It worked. Very strange these cars The game is bizarro.
Well I have let your base tune challenge my thinking or more to the point I just ran your base tune.
On the one hand it surprised me. On paper it looks strange and quite understeery to me.
In reality it felt pretty good and could be tweaked to get a job done.
But there were a few expected quirks, just not as severe as I expected. It did mean I was a few seconds off my normal pace though.
It was a little floaty, a little sluggish to turn / understeery and once it turns it struggled to maintain speed without slipping sideways.
So I fired up my preferred build and tune on my 22b, changed to minimum rim size not max and that allowed me to add 1 ft lb of torque and 1 hp but also lose 19lbs of weight. All SHALBS were green.
I reduced my normal camber by approx. 33%, reduced my rebound by a couple of whole numbers and reduced my front tyre pressure by a few lbs. So somewhat mild adjustments.
I kept my personal ARB preference and aero preference (very different to yours).
The next lap I did was nearly a second quicker than my previous best. I will try to run at a few other tracks too.
That is great news! That 19lbs could be considered 57HP if you like to follow the 3:1 rule.
It is also why I called it a template, it is not the end point. It does require tweaking for driving style and car weirdness.
I’m glad I could give back to the community. yay!
Happy Tuning!
hahahaha It took me awhile to get it… 9 lives, now 8.
I try my best to help the community, and find and keep references for my madness.
But, I don’t mind admitting my mistakes when they come up. yay!
Kitty, prepare to enjoy some catnip before I set my dogs on you!
I’m glad you posted this, and I’m even more thrilled that Eduardo got some good results with it. Following the thread, I will for sure try this for my more offroad/Storm Island starting point and see what happens. You’ve put a lot of time into this and I’m glad it works and you have chosen to share it with us.
As for the dogs, you’ve now essentially made Eduardo an entire second faster with potential for an even slower time. I can only hope that this means it helps me by at least 1 whole second. I know Eduardo is a much better driver than I and typically ends up faster in the end by quite a bit, but grrrr… More work for me.
I guess in a sense though, this also means more fun for me. I’m definitely hoping I have some time to actually jump onto the game tomorrow and over the weekend. I may try your set up for the Clubbed Up 3 if applicable.
Hope you don’t mind but going to copy and paste your opening post for over at the HLR site for those few guys who don’t tune or are new to it, with an alternative variation on some points.
The game is bizarro.