After driving the - fantastic - new Jag for a while and setting very competitive times on the leaderboards, I decided to hit some hoppers in it. One major thing I noticed was that there’d always be someone in a car that’s clearly not set up for P class and either has bad intentions or is an outright hazard. Having a million horsepower Ferrari, Koenigsegg or Lambo in a lobby full of Prototypes is not right and is almost certain to cause carnage.
I thought of two options:
Limit the class to Prototypes only. This will omit anything that isn’t appropriate for the class and will get rid of the plague of Lambo missiles.
Set a PI threshold. This means that most cars that barely scrape into P class will be omitted but may include cars like the Caparo and Koenigsegg One:1, which aren’t too shabby on select few tracks in capable hands.
Of course, it won’t completely fix the state of P class hoppers but it might go a good way to helping and to encourage players to use more appropriate cars for the class.
It was good to see them back, they’re lovely to drive, I suppose they’re the R class smaller brother of the Jag or 787B in P class.
This would suggest that small alterations to lobby settings may not be entirely taxing to implement. We saw that in Leagues the 787B can itself be omitted, as well as the 1970s F1 cars in R class generally.
In regards to a post above PJ’s, the question is what was the P class designed for? I’d suggest that it was for Prototypes straight off the bat, due to the letter given and that the class bracket caters for the Prototypes. Because of that, due to the way the PI system works some cars will enter P class because they are above R class. However these cars are in no way optimised for racing against suitable P class cars and will be outclassed, then in a public lobby they will most likely cause incidents. So does limiting the category to Prototypes only or setting a PI threshold sound like a good plan? And if so, which one?
I don’t agree that driver skill or qualifications are part of the answer.
Long term you would end up with fewer people making it because some will get disgruntled.
I think a creative restructure of the whole online system is needed. Leagues are 5 tiered. Classes are becoming silly, especially when some career groupings are not longer top of class and some cars in the game can not be upgraded to top of class. So has the class system run its course?
Should the whole game be structured around car type and PI. Combine that with some form of the league structure and we may be on to something.
I thought we were going to see this, but LBs and hoppers proved me wrong… I agree with you 100%, just seems the hoppers are not set up that way. I think Car types is fairly important as they become race cars… It would allow a S class battle of super cars not molested by grippy touring cars or Canams with heavy rims. Prototypes against Prototypes.
This seems to be the stepping stone or a dip the toe in and feel it out. As someone that plays SP a bunch - I liked it. But its lost on the MP - tune to top of class types. GTEs aren’t supposed to be R900 and its nice racing them closer to spec, imo.
I don’t know if its just me, maybe I have a form of OCD lol but I like driving race cars on the leaderboards knowing that they will probably lose out to something else, but I like to see how high up I a GT on the R class boards. But now they are not R900 when maxed. that grinds my gears.
Whilst a PI gap of say 19 pi is not massive it is still a gap. And sure I know with the combination of my driving and other cars being better it will not bother the Rayzers etc
I also often like using oddballs in lobbies so may want to take my proper race car into and R class lobby, heaven forbid to be trumped by a supercar or upgraded xyz car.
If the GTE PI limit is 875 then cool that should be right throughout the game in my opinion.
I certainly hope some FM6 features are stepping stones to something lol
PS on topic the same happens in P class but to a lesser extent, until you get to non Prototypes lol
I think the FM2 system worked the best, dividing race cars and street cars. From T10’s perspective I assume this would create sparse lobbies or something along the lines of that which is why they’re mixed together. Wouldn’t it be cool to be able to add a wide body kit which would accommodate wider tires plus extra downforce in order to fit a street car into a race class as a touring car, DTM car, GT car or something?
As per this exact issue, I thought a handling minimum might work but bringing in cars which are actually useful like the ones you mentioned in capable hands, I’m not exactly sure how it could be sorted properly or at all.
This existed in GT5 and was very cool. There were a handful of street cars that could be converted into race cars and then fitted into the race car filters in the game as well. Link : http://gran-turismo.wikia.com/wiki/Racing_Modifications.
The way car classes are done in FM6 is just poor, it’s so sad to see this game having one of the best car and track lists out there yet as a pure racing game it can’t even manage to put a proper grid on the track. Pre-war Grand Prix races? We have 4 cars of them in the game now but nope, impossible to set up such a race. LMP900 only? Nope. LMP1 only? Nope. Roadsters only? Nope. And a random multiplayer hopper has such a wacko mix of cars in them it never feels like a real race… This game is bursting with potential but everything around the racing/driving itself is so poorly done. Turn 10 need to step out of their current business model to release a new game (= slightly updated from the previous version) every 2 years and then push out car packs every month. They should reinvent their own game and give us a lot of innovation instead. We are now 6 months after the release of the game and from the very core of the game, nothing is changed. They only add more cars and tracks and a few bug fixes left and right. Do they even play their own game?
YESSSSSSS!!! THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS 1,000,000x this! I remember that from my old GT1/2 days; didn’t realize they brought it back for GT5. I love the idea, and coupled with FM’s paint system, well, let’s just say it would make for quite the variety.
Of course, as usual, I tunr my eye to licensing issues which may make this tough this day in age, but it would be great if FM did something of the sort, including modified interiors. A visible roll cage and FM aero is a start, but let’s kick it up a notch!
It’s great to see a lot of support on this thread, many thanks to all.
I agree with some points directly above. Weren’t some of these features on prior games? On FM4 you could have many different categories and we had strong enough infrastructure to be able to do this. We also had CPLs where you could run a Prototype only lobby or drifting with certain parameters among countless other things. We don’t have this now but I’m confident that FM7 will have vastly improved infrastructure, and not only bringing back what was on prior games but also progressing on the concepts. On top of the content, of course. I’d love to drive cars like the Jag straight out of the box!
In the meantime, using what we have, setting P class hoppers up with one or two stipulations to significantly improve the state of the hopper seems like a win-win to me. Last night did give us a repeat of some common denominators: a P class Ford GT - in that standard blue of course - and a Team Forza McLaren P1. They are vastly outclassed in all respects of performance and shouldn’t be able to get to P class. But alas they can so we should use simple implementable game settings to improve online interaction for the vast majority.
A big part of the issue motorhead has nothing to do with the cars but has to do with the quality of drivers. Forza makes no attempt at restricting poor drivers from driving in something they can’t and shouldn’t even be driving. Then even if they can handle a car there is no way of ensuring they understand racecraft or even care about proper race craft. “im just going to push you out of my way because we are in a 3 lap race and i need to get to the front and there is no damage on so there will be no ill effect to me.”
Something needs to be done to prevent the above behavior, and keep people out of racing with other people in public lobbies in cars they dont belong in.
The faster the cars, the harder it is to clean things up. The average grid has just enough drivers who don’t have enough skill to keep a P class car on the track, much less do so while dealing with traffic, that getting a reliably clean experience is probably never going to happen.
The only way I can think of to resolve this is to assign each driver a “safety rating” that tracks their ability to keep their car on track and not hit other cars and match them to lobbies on that basis. I don’t see that happening in this iteration of the game. It may never happen if T10 doesn’t prioritize it.
To me P is prototype as well and it is a bit unsettling to see a declassed Indy car (FM5 with drags) and likewise the missiles of hypercars which are clearly outmatched except on select speed tracks.
I really wish something could be concerning racecraft as well - it would ease the issue of the missile - I would feel descent in a lobby if you were in the missile - you would at least know and adapt to the other cars on the track not just brake at your brake points. I don’t think most get the fact that its a moving chess board and not just a hotlapping event. Which is why I was spending most my time in ghost leagues - just to save myself the aggravation. But nothing quite like real racing when its clean.
I think a sub section like S1,2,3 or U would be awesome too.
Prioritizing who can drive what really hasn’t been a part of the Forza Motorsport franchise, especially when everyone clamored for being able to get any car at any time - even “renting” them.
I don’t place the “blame” on so much FM6 as all those people attracted to the game Horizon, Need for Speed and GTA V (etc.) without some sort of “orientation” regarding the purpose and intent of the game. Horizon itself rewards drivers for running into things with points, etc., and has zero penalties for crashing anyone in races. There is no “tuning” which means people jump into a car and go, and with the tuning in FM6 they can automatically upgrade their super fast, RunAmuck to more than they can handle.
However, there are so many players who have been with Forza Motorsport from the beginning the “veterans” would feel shackled if they needed to work their way through classes before getting to the “real” racing classes of cars.
Off-topic, but the other thing which needs to be corrected is the ability to drive the wrong way on a course to reach and enter the pit area for repairs. I’ve seen way too many people revving up their RunAmuck, attacking the first corner to create havoc, and turning around immediately to enter the pits for repairs before completing even a single lap - and before the actual competitive racers have finished the first lap.
Yes it would be a minor annoyance, but the veterans would advance quickly to the higher classes if that is what they enjoy, where as those who dont deserve to race the higher classes would take a much longer time.
I do understand that this would also be a major drawback for people who are new to the series and it would prevent a lot of people from buying it. Although t10 needs those people because it is revenue for them, they are also the people that buy the game because it is a new game. Play for maybe a month, trade it in or shelve it and never look back. No game is ever going to be suitable to everyone, but i still believe it is in t10 best interest to cater to their faithfuls as they are the ones who are going to selflessly promote the game for being great even if the most casual of players cant get on with it, if it is something they buy and like they wont mind putting in the effort to get where they want to.
I think this isn’t as big an issue as you make it out to be. Even with everybody in prototypes you will come across people who are driving cars too fast for their skill level, or players that are too impatient to make a clean pass.
The players that use cars that “are not meant to be in P-Class” are typically going to be towards the back anyway after a few corners, or are going to do the same amount of damage as a disruptive person in a Prototype.
The issue here isn’t necessarily that P-Class (or any other class for that matter) is an “any car can play” category; that’s part of the appeal of Forza in the first place, seeing how your favourite car can stack up against racing legends. The issue is the same as always: some drivers don’t know how (or don’t choose to) race clean. Segmenting cars isn’t really going to change much in that regard and if P-Class gets segmented, you could have a snowball effect where every Class gets wishlisted to be “walled off”.
If everybody races clean then this becomes a non-issue, although both you and I know that it is difficult for the general playerbase or Turn 10 to make that utopian dream a reality.