Mid/Rear Engine Physics Issue

Forza Motorsport Legacy Motorsport FM7 Discussion
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In pretty much every Forza the Porsches have suffered from the front lifting off the ground. Well now it has extended to the mid engine stuff too. Trying to take the Chase at Bathurst (the kink on the back straight) in the Cayman GT4 results in the front inside wheel coming off the ground and a weird hopping motion. A similar thing happens with the Ferrari 488 at Laguna Seca and the Daytona oval can’t be driven flat out as entering the banking causes the car to spin out. Has anyone had any of these issues with other mid/rear layouts? I hope this gets fixed really quickly like the Riley DP in Forza 6 did, less than a week I believe.

I’ve also noticed the tyre flex has gone back to the incorrect way it was in Forza 5. How on earth its gone back to the flex being the opposite to what it should be when it was right in Forza 6 is beyond me.

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Drove the Noble M600 and I didn’t have this issue, the car handled great and how I’d expect.

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I’ve not had a problem with the 991 GT3 RS, so I’m guessing is just a hand full of cars that are too soft at either end compared to the opposite end.

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Lifting wheels and being unsettled over bumps could be a symptom of the suspension being too hard. Can’t say I’ve noticed anything odd myself but I’ve not driven the cars you mentioned.

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Regarding the car spinning going onto the banking… was the car completely STOCK or tuned? I tried a stock Ferrari 488 entering the banking with Traction ON and OFF. No real issue except for a bit of throttle adjustment. I do get the Cayman lifting the wheel at high speeds though. It’s actually pretty realistic as cars in real life do that there since the air at 150+ is pushing underneath the car, upsetting the stability and downforce.

The rear-engined, RWD cars are harder to drive. I do notice this especially with the older Porsche models like the 993 GT2. It has to do with the Default suspension setting being too stiffly setup in the front and too soft in the rear. The car squats bad and lifts the front wheels, making turning almost impossible. Setting up the balance is very tough on that particular car. The older '73 RS isn’t too bad and the newer Porsches are very good (Cayman GT4, 991 GT3 RS, etc). There are a few ‘bad eggs’ in here that will definitely take time to tune and iron out their handling woes.

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Spent 4 hours trying to fix the same issue on RWD 2017 NSX FE. Almost tried every possibility, for the moment both of my ARBs are maxed

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I find fixing my driving is the first thing that needs to be done.

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I find your ultra-subtle sarcasm so very endearing.

At any rate: yeah; Porsche 2012 RS at Monza is crazy in the way it lifts its fronts like a bucking bronco – only adds I have are a flywheel and driveshaft, I think. Doesn’t seem right.

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Sorry most people try to drive these cars like front engine cars and blame the car/tune. They have to be driven much smoother. I thinks important to learn to how drive these properly before tune out the behavior of the car.

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All I have done to my car is change the driveshaft and flywheel. There’s no way the subtle power increase you get from a flywheel change should have the car doing drag-like wheelies under moderate acceleration on the first Monza sweeper. And I’ve driven this exact car (2012 GT2 RS), with these exact settings, in FM6 Monza for a long time. Never had the issue. Something’s wrong.

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I was able to recreate the lift. I would recommend buying a the rear forza wing. These either too much down force on the rear or not enough on the front. For a track like monza I like all the way down.

Also if you want serious going to tune this car, you going to need a diff.

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Its happened to me with 911 GT2 RS. I think is a soft rear bar and weak rear bump combo, is hard to fix need a deep tune. RWD cars in FM7 are a big dissapoint for me, the lift throttle effect is terrible and the oversteer insane… With pad is playable but with wheel this game is a pain.

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There is a physics engine problem with all of the rear engine cars I have driven so far. The worst cars are the older 911’s and the Abarth 595. These cars do strange things at Maple Valley and Road Atlanta Short. Sweeping turn are their enemy. They lift, crash down and bounce thru the turn even when you are trying to be very easy on the controls. Most of the lap they are fine but any uphill or flat sweeper causes strange behavior.

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The 595 seems to tall and narrow for the grip level it can achieve and become very unstable. The rear wheels seem to fight each other for traction and cause the car to start swapping out. I had some very counter intuitive seting to make it work. I will have to try the old 911. What year are you referring too?

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The older 911 is the 1973 Carrera RS. It pulls the front wheels up on Road Atlanta Short like it has 1500BHP. Of course you can always remove the parts and rebuild but the new to Forza players that have these cars auto Homologated are going to hate driving them and get frustrated. If Porsche knew how bad the Carrera handles in Forza 7 they would not be amused. Even when you rebuild these cars with suspension and arbs they are a lot of work to get them to behave with some consistent controllability.

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I happened along this thread earlier on, and coupled with one or two others I have seen; I decided to test out of few of these cars myself. Figured it was better to test them prior to commenting; as they can see what is going on for myself. This isnt the first time I have done this, as there are always similar threads whenever a new Forza Motorsport title releases. As such, I have a ground rule that all the cars I test, are completely bone stock; zero upgrades at all. This is because the complaints usually arise from the cars in the stock guise, and I always have ABS/TCS/STM turned off, as I do not want anything getting in the way. I also test on my wheel as the primary controller device, as there are often comments saying the problems are increased on a wheel. In the past, that would be my trusty Logitech G920 wheel. But with FM7 also being on PC this time around, I did the testing with my T300 RS-GT, T3PA pedals, and TH8A shifter instead. My wheel rotation was set at 900° for all the cars I tested, and any cars with a proper manual, I used the TH8A in H-pattern mode and the clutch pedal with manual with clutch turned on. Any cars what are sequential, I used the paddle shifters with the clutch turned off. And unless I am testing a car on the Nordschleife (1 lap on this track), I always do 3 laps in whatever car I am testing.

1973 Carrera RS

So here we start with the oldest car I tested tonight, the Carrera RS. Too be honest, I have driven this car a lot in any racing game that features it, as it is a firm favourite of mine. Not to mention it is a car I would own, if I had the money to spend buying one that is. It handled as I expected a sports car from the 70’s to handle, the suspension was a little softer than a modern sports cars, felt a little looser. Baring that, it was quite fun to drive. I took it around Road Atlanta club circuit for 3 laps, as it was noted to show an issue on this track where the front wheels would lift off the road. This wasn’t my experience with the car however, in fact, it was uneventful. The car didn’t misbehave at all.

2012 Porsche 911 GT2 RS & 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS

I noted that the GT2 RS was noted as another problem car in here, but it wasn’t stated which year the problem car was. Instead of asking and then waiting around to find out, I decided to just test them both. I decided to stick with Road Atlanta Club circuit for these 2 cars, as it has good elevation changes, sweeping corners, and tighter slower corners. All in all, a good place to test these cars. So we will start with the 2012 GT2 first.

This car runs on a normal manual and clutch setup, was quite fun to drive. The rear was ever so slightly loose, and it seemed as though the suspension may have being a tad on the hard side. I took it out for its 3 laps, but it was just as uneventful for me, as the Carrera RS was. I do feel that if I had a lapse in concentration however, that this car would take me for a ride into a tire wall. But controlling the throttle and braking, being smooth with my inputs, the car was very well behaved.

The 2018 model of the GT2 RS felt a lot different, it was tighter, more responsive, and felt faster. Again, it was exceptionally well behaved. I didn’t suffer with any oversteer issues, no understeer issue. It was surprisingly nice to drive, especially when compared to the demo version of this car. I actually find myself wanted to drive this car again.

2016 Porsche Caymen GT4

With this one I decided to change up the track, as I had noted earlier in this thread, that Bathurst was somewhere the issue with this car would show its ugly head. This is a track I like a lot, and back when it was first added into Forza; I spent countless hours driving it in a Holden HSV GTS. So it is a track I am fairly used to.

Taking out the Caymen here, I wasn’t really expecting any issues at this point. Given that the testing I had done in the previous 3 cars, I was beginning to wonder if I was playing a different game to you all… and the same trend continued with this car. It was again, very well behaved for me. Not was none of the bouncing that has been noted, and no other issues while I was driving it around for its 3 laps. The car was glued to the virtual tarmac for me, took the corners wonderfully, and didn’t fight me anywhere. I can see me building up this car to use in some online racing, as it is super stable for me in its stock form. It was just a perfect car to drive.

2015 Ferrari 488 GTB

Now this isnt the first time a Ferrari has received this testing treatment from me. I tested the F458 and F458 Risi in FM5 on a normal xbox one control pad, and I tested the F458 Speciale on my Logitech G920 and a normal xbox one control pad on FM6. As such, I really wasn’t expecting this car to misbehave at all. But… I did go into it with an open mind. As Laguna Seca had been noted as a track that shows the issues with this car, that is the track I used for my testing.

At this point we have a similar story as with all the other cars tested thus far, and that is an uneventful story. I didnt have as much fun driving this car as I did the others, but that is mainly because I am just not a major Ferrari person. Dont get me wrong, I like them; but I can think of other cars I would rather spluge on if I happened to be rich.

Drivability wise in Forza Motorsport 7 though, this car was nice to drive around. It did push a little to understeer when on throttle at the corner exit, but given the wide tires at the rear, it wasn’t unexpected. The car was well behaved at corner entry, was rather settled at the corkscrew; and was a pleasant car to drive. All in all, the 3 laps went very well, and without any issues again.

2015 Ultima Evo Coupe 1020

Well… Now we get to this car. If any car is going to be a pain to drive, then surely it will be this one. After all, it does have a monster of an engine which churns out 1000bhp. This thing is obviously going to be a monster to drive, and live up to what people are saying on here, that it is practically undrivable… right?

So I decided to really punish myself, has I had clearly had it very easy up till this point. So I decided I would take this thing out at the green hell, really put this car through its virtual paces; and possibly even give people something funny to laugh at…

But t turns out it isnt that bad to drive, least for me anyway. Obviously the car is very eager on throttle, and it will spin the rears if one is overzealous with the right pedal. But baring that, this car was a blast to drive. So long as I was mindful of what I was doing with the throttle, it wouldn’t give me any problems. Now I am not saying it will be my go to car, but if I had to race it? I really wouldn’t be upset about it. This is, however, the only car that I felt would benefit from some tuning. It certainly wasn’t what I would call a bad car to drive, it definitely wasn’t the undrivable monster people seem to say it is.

As always, I do not come with just words of my testing; I also recorded the replays as well. After all, what use is there in me just saying I didn’t have an issue, when it is much better to show it. As such, I made one long 28 minute video.

Now to save you all from having to watch the full 28 minutes, below I shall link the timestamps for each car. That way you can watch the parts of the video that interest you most.

1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS (start of the video) - FM7 Problematic cars compilation - YouTube

2012 Porsche 911 GT2 RS - FM7 Problematic cars compilation - YouTube

2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS - FM7 Problematic cars compilation - YouTube

2016 Porsche Caymen GT4 - FM7 Problematic cars compilation - YouTube

2015 Ferrari 488 GTB - FM7 Problematic cars compilation - YouTube

2015 Ultima Evo Coupe 1020 - FM7 Problematic cars compilation - YouTube

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Try 1973 Carrera RS and 1995 GT2 on Nordschleife with stock settings and you’ll see where the problem is. Especially accelerating out of corner, when there’s many up and down sections. Front of the car lifts easily.

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I shall retest the Carrera at the Nordschleife then, and I will see if the issue shows there for me. I will also buy the 95 GT2, once I earn some in game credits anyway. I spent all of them buying all the cars I tested last night, lol.

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These cars are known for doing that though. It’s not a handling issue it’s the nature of rear engine cars prior to the rise of electronics. The newer Porsches have their engines pushed so far forward it’s less of a problem, not to mention they are benefiting from 40 years of performance models. I have a tuned 95 GT2, it’s one of my favorite cars in the world. It doesn’t take much to make it very good. 1 to 1 stiffness, keep the ARBs from being too stiff, slight damping changes from base set up.

You have to change the way you drive though, Porsches have always been that way. Unlike every other car they tend to benefit from strange inputs, tap the brakes before entering sweepers to center vehicle weight. They don’t do well with carrying too much speed, they also don’t like trail braking with the exception of very flat corners. Where they make up this difference is grip leaving corners, so plan for that.

From a game standpoint, the older Porsches feel about right. There new GT2 though, still feels like there is something wrong in it.

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Yes, but not for getting both front wheels in the air when accelerating out of corner, and that’s exactly what happens.

I’m pretty faimiliar with rear-heavy cars in modern racing videogames and I know how to drive them and what’s the right technique. Actually, one of my favorite cars in GT4 to GT6 was an old Alpine A310 with weight distribution about 33/67. So my driving isn’t the problem here.

Here’s the perfect example that I’ve discovered recently of what I’m trying to show:

Take old Abarth 595 for a ride (stock) and try to upset it a little bit (brake, then accelerate and try to steer fast for example) and you’ll see what I’m on about.