Forza is going to be more successful by being more like Horizon than Project Cars. Like I’ve said before, for every person who wants sim options there’s five who want arcade options like class based racing, drifting, etc. GTS went way too far toward Project Cars and the lack of single player content coupled with always online is a bad look.
-k
Youve totally gone off the deep end. This is not and never has been a sim and is meant to be an arcade racer. There are plenty sims out there meant to be sims. If you bought this to be a sim thats your fault. Its not marketed that way. The niche for forza is arcade,thats it.It has never been a sim,I have no idea what your talking about.Always has been arcade.Idont think you understand what a sim is. Forza 1 or 2 was not a sim. It was arcade. They dont need sim respect. Thats never been the goal of the game. Go play iracing,assetta corsa. This game is for kids.
This just sounds like one massive circular conversation.
All driving games have simulation and arcade aspects regardless of what they are and how serious they take themselves. It’s just a digital recreation of a real world event and it comes down to personal preference.
The driving in Forza has remained somewhat similar since all the way back to Forza 2. I’ve played them all and there isn’t a drastic change over the course of the series. It didn’t magically become better or worse with the new generation. Forza 4 is not the be all end all of driving, only some multiplayer things.
All driving games have declined in sales over the last ten years. Saying FM4 sold more so it must be better makes no sense. GT has dropped as well.
-k
A rather ambitious claim. Based on which data?
Racing games have never sold well compared to other genres. They have never been popular and never will be. A lot of genres have cropped up and become icons in the last decade, so it wouldn’t surprise me to see sales decline.
Thats not what I asked. Show data to support claim.
Specifically ALL driving games, in the last 10 years. This obviously includes ALL platforms.
I think if the Xbox One and PS4’s sales were reversed, we wouldn’t see Xbox “exclusives” on PC. I think Forza Horizon 3 was the first major exclusive that came to PC and that was 3 years after the launch of the Xbox One.
Even though I’ve never played multiplayer in any Forza games, it sounds like FM4 was superior in how lobbies were handled compared to the newer games. As far as I can remember FM4 was also polished on release and had a lot of content. I didn’t have internet back then, so my games needed to work when I got them and I didn’t have any technical issues with it. As a whole package FM4 was extremely solid and that’s why I think most fans like it so much.
FM5 was one of the main reasons I didn’t buy an Xbox One, even though I consider the Forza series one of my favourites. It’s been 6 years since the release of FM4 and I don’t see improvements in some key areas and we’ve even seen features removed. The AI in the FM7 demo was much worse than even FM2 (even though it came out 10 years later). Even when it does work, it seems to cheat on some circuits and the AI in other games has came on a lot. There’s still little effort put in to make multiplayer more civilized.
The homologation isn’t enough to put me off buying FM7 but the combination of technical issues (on both platforms), lots of poor design choices, less serious atmosphere and blatant amount of ways to take my money (€70 for the standard PC edition on top of all the DLC) have put me off. I know I can sound cynical/negative on the forums at times but I was really excited to come back to Forza after all these years but it looks like this was just a cash grab and I’ll have to wait for FM8.
When I say the driving is similar, I mean the actual feel of driving the car on the track, especially with controller. AI in all Forza games is not very good, this goes through the whole series and only games that have active avoidance like F1 “seem” better because the AI isn’t trying to hit you.
-k
I would say being aware of the player and trying to avoid contact makes the F1 game’s AI better, certainly make it less frustrating. In the GT Sport demo, the AI would give me room instead of squeezing me off the track or shunting me, they would also try to overtake each other and lapped cars would move out of the way. All of those things made it feel more like a proper race, it surprised me considering that the GT AI was always stuck to a driving line and Sport focuses in multiplayer.
My main point is that having poor or passable AI in the past is no excuse for not improving it now, especially considering that Forza is a big title, has a somewhat big dev team and a bigger budget than most racing games.
If we haven’t seen better AI by now, I don’t see things changing unfortunately.
No. Long game.
Ive made many posts on this topic. Some as far back as 2 years ago. Still several years before final form is revealed. Device. Agnostic. All of the players.
As usual, anytime the words sim, arcade, casual or hardcore come up ( and gambling ), everybody has a different definition of what they mean and just wind up talking past one another.
Head over to vgchartz.com and you can track and compare all you like.
A lot of people dont like them but they are fairly close and they are the only source of broad based long-term sales numbers, any numbers you come up with from anyone else will ultimately be sourced to them anyway.
But the general gist is correct, sports and racing have been declining for a long time with only a few titles at the top able to buck the trend.
Vgchartz doesnt have the tools to collate the racing games in total, across all platforms. You guys are missing the point of his claim.
If 1 game bucks the trend, then claim is invalid as its not ALL games.
Here is a counter argument.
Consoles peaked in 2000 and have been in decline since
Racing Genre isnt the problem.
The problem is consumer dissatisfaction.
*Make it a sim and the controller would become almost useless. Do you really expect everyone to just buy a wheel (which is way more expensive than a controller and can ONLY be used to play racing games)?
*There are already enough sims out there so you’ve got plenty of choices.
*One of the major reasons why FM has become this popular is the perfect balance of simulation and arcade. Not too hard, not so easy either. And most people like it this way. The same reason why COD and Battlefield are much, much more popular than Armed Assault (a military sim in case you haven’t heard of it). Of course unlike COD and Battlefield, FM isn’t completely arcadey, but you see the point. Actually even FH isn’t completely arcadey if you compare it to Need For Speed…
*GT Sport isn’t a real sim, it has indeed more realistic physics than FM does but still can’t compare too the likes of Asseto Corsa and iRacing.
There is a whole issue with get rid of simcade
Games like gt and fm are designed to be played on a console and controller first. That is what simcade IS
So by saying get rid of it. Means giving a not so good message to the older fans who will only use a controller
It also means losing some abilties forza is known for like its driveline and motorswaps
The worst thing to ever happen to Forza Motorsport was the introduction of Forza Horizon.
What has basically happened with FM7 is Turn 10 have noted you have one group of players that play Forza Motorsport and another that play Forza Horizon. The direction of the franchise is to merge them together to increase the sales. You can clearly see this with FM7 especially with regards to the physics.
The blame must lie with Dan Greenawalt. The direction of the franchise is going the wrong way and Forza Motorsport should be moving away from Horizon and become less arcade and more sim. I am sure Dan Greenawalt has been pressured from those above him to take the franchise in this direction to increase the sales. However in the longer term I feel this will have the reverse effect.
Whatever happens nobody can deny Turn 10’s reputation has been harmed with the release of FM7!
All the following sales data is from vgchartz (in millions):
Motorsport 5: 2.31
Horizon 2: 2.24
Motorsport 6: 1.99
Horizon 3: 2.58
When you consider the fact that Motorsport 5 was a launch title and included with every Xbox One purchase for the first month or two, you can see that the Horizon series outsells the Motorsport series by quite a lot. They also see a larger playerbase for a longer amount of time. Obviously Dan or whoever at Turn 10 is going to try to use Horizon features to make the Motorsport series more appealing to the Horizon fanbase.
The only option from Horizon that FM7 need is the possibility to play our own music from groove/spotify
Forza Motorsport need definitely to be more SIMULATION for Sims lovers and people that they dont love SIMS , they still can TURN ON the drive assist , no qualify etc … or play Horizon.
Who can do more , can do less .
some ppl in this thread just dont seem to have common sense, in cases like this it really makes me wonder why i even bother trying to reason with ppl.
