I am looking for ways to improve my Braking consistency. I recently watched a youtube video by one of the Forza Stars on general techniques. One of the things that stood out was how he was able to consistently brake at around 70% of max and avoid locking up by using his finger as a stop with a controller. I also watched the telemetry of some of the top leaderboard laps and confirmed that this 70% threshold seems to work quite well. I use a wheel - I am useless with a controller. My question is for other wheel users. Does anyone have any good techniques for achieving this level consistently with a pedal setup ? I know practicing helps and most of the time I can hit the right level. However the difference between 70% and 85% (lockup ) while heel and toe downshifting is problematic. I am aware that there are other reasons why I am slower but I believe that this is the one that is currently losing me the biggest chunks of time.
I am using Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals so there are adjustments there for pressure. There is the brake force adjustment in the Wheelbase - Clubsport V2.5. There is the brake force level in the tuning menu for each car and then there is the FFB slider for each car. There are also the endpoint adjustments in the controller menu. I suppose one could add some mechanical stop on the pedal mechanism itself but I want to avoid this.
Any Wheel/Pedal specific suggestions would be appreciated.
For background, I use the Fanatec CSL Elite Load Cell brake pedal, not the ClubSport V3 (that comes later this year, I hope). Principle still applies, however. As always,. nothing replaces time behind the wheel, or on the pedal, in this case.
Forgive me for stating what you likely already know, but a controller uses a potentiometer and measures the distance the trigger has travelled to determine how much brake force to exert in the game. Hence, this approach to use an artificial “stop” with his finger to find 70%.
Your ClubSport uses a load cell, and can measure directly the force you are applying to the pedal, no need to find an artificial stopping point. You should not have to make any changes to your set-up. I have ABS turned off everywhere and leave all of the brake adjustments within the game at their defaults. (I do adjust brake bias in the game as appropriate, but never the brake force). I want the game to register exactly what my left foot is doing.
I only adjust the Brake Force on my wheel base, but typically start around 60 - 70.
I recently had to go back to my original non-load cell pedal set (I wore out the return spring on the throttle of the Elite set, and was waiting for a replacement), and going back the to the potentiometer-type pedal was AWFUL. I was back to muscle memory to “know” where 70% was on the brake. Upgrading to the Load-cell pedal was the best bang for the buck in my rig, don’t give up its (significant) advantage with an artificial stop.
Keep at it, you will find the feel gets more instinctual. (And, if I may, why the heel and toe? just for giggles? not the fastest way around in most cases) Good luck
Thanks for the reply. I am aware of the advantages of the load cell in the pedals and yes it is miles better than using the potentiometer type. I have spent quite a few hours practicing. I guess I am wondering if anyone has figured out a way to fine tune it if you will and am looking for any improvement I can get. I am hoping there is something I may have missed. I have dialed the Brake Force on the wheelbase down and that has helped. As far as Heel and Toe, I guess in my case it is more like toe and toe. I use manual with clutch and I use the clutch pedal. I have my brake and throttle pedals set up close enough together so when I am braking I can twist my foot slightly to blip the throttle on downshifts. I try to left foot brake if I don’t need to downshift but my left foot is not yet as well trained as my right foot. I also have the McClaren wheel rim so I considered using one of the analog paddles as the throttle for downshifts. Unfortunately the option to use the analog paddles for brake/throttle puts the throttle on the left - same side as the downshift paddle. Trying to downshift with two fingers and blip the throttle with the other two fingers of the same hand while still holding onto the wheel is a bit wonky. What method do you use to blip the throttle during downshifts ? If you have a faster way that is what I am looking for.
Since you are looking for an extra edge, I forgot to mention that I replaced the original spring in the load cell and got a much stiffer one from a local hobby store that sells RC cars(an RC shock absorber). That way I can keep the strength dial on the pedal itself to max so I don’t add any extra travel to the pedal, only pressure. There is a brake kit available for the V3s if you are looking for a more official route.
Muscle memory is the biggest obstacle, imo. Especially with Forza since it tends to be less intuitive than the competition when it comes to a wheel. As tiger said, it will take time, the load cell especially helps with this. As you become accustomed to the gradual build-up of pressure, threshold braking will eventually become deeply ingrained into your soul. Also, use the tire audio cues when you are starting to lock the tyres. You’ll begin to know what to listen for, and when to ease up. I do heel-toe as well, but I often find it doesn’t have much of an impact if you don’t match properly. So I usually just concentrate on the brake pedal first, and matching revs secondly.
When comparing pedals to triggers, there are many embedded assists, such as the magical steering filters. Not only does it modulate the steering while accelerating, keeping the car at maximum friction. But it also applies while decelerating, which is basically free trail braking. You and I, and any other wheel user knows it can be quite a difficult feathering off the pedal correctly into turns while applying just the right amount of turn-in. You can activate the gamepad filters in the game’s advanced wheel settings, I found it to be counter-productive though. Not sure why anyone would want to gain experience with that enabled, only for absolute beginners I’d say. Even then, it will only offer to teach you bad habits.
Many players have the Elite controller that allows them to set a mechanical hard stop on the triggers at specific lengths. You don’t even need to think about braking with that assist, just another crutch. The haptic feedback from the X1 controller is legendary. Luckily as clubsport owners we can also set our ABS, via the wheel’s LED menu, to around 70%. Creating a rumble on the pedal when it reaches the mark. Not sure what view you like, but most wheel users play in cockpit/dash/bonnet views that have greatly constrained sight lines, especially in a pack. Racing with a wheel in 3rd person can work, surely, but what would be the point?
I could go on and on. And is why Forza is considered the best racer with a gamepad, get any one of those users behind a wheel, and their tune will quickly change gears. Don’t mean to sound contrary, just wanted you to have all the info for the majority of your competition out on the track. This, among many, are the reasons I support wheel only hoppers/leagues/FRC… pipedreams, I know.
I was trying to avoid the usual Controller User vs Wheel User discussion. It has been beat to death in other threads since Forza 1. Otherwise you make some good suggestions.
I find there are times when rev matching doesn’t have much impact also, mostly under heavy braking which seems to overwhelm the effect or when the revs are already closely matched. I have been trying to downshift a bit later and at lower RPMs.
Setting the wheelbase ABS level down to 70% - I feel silly that I did not think of this - seems so obvious now.
Heavier Spring - The V3 is a fairly stiff pedal already. There is not much movement.
I started out playing in cockpit view and ran that way for quite a while. It felt real but had its disadvantages in online races and in career races. I ran Bumper Cam for hot lapping for a while cause it helped me see the apexes more accurately. I just switched to Chase view when I started on Forza 7 to help me avoid the AI as I worked through Career mode. It took a while to adjust to the timing. Now I with back and forth depending on the car and what I am doing. When I am hot lapping close to a Ghost, which seems to happen a lot these days, the Ghost does not block the view of the track. So currently I am probably a little faster in Chase View.
FWIW - I am not a complete beginner. If I really work at it and have a good tune I can run consistently 2-3 seconds/minute behind some of the top guys - controller or wheel. I will never catch them - just trying to get a fraction closer.
Hi mate. I run a TX wheel with the Pro pedals. The Rubber stopper is jammed up under the brake, and provides the right amount of feel. It does vary depending on the car, but you will soon get a feel for where the limit is. It is absolutely critical to get this right and more or less not have to think about it. I’m sure a load cell would again be a massive improvement but personally I’m not prepared to spend $1500AU for maybe 0.1 per lap. when you get towards the pointy end of racing, that little lock up on just one lap costs you the race. I still do it, but a lot less than I used to. I run a high BP and that makes the margins even finer. As with everything, it comes down to practice, practice, practice. Rubber stopper vs no rubber stopper? No contest.
I can only echo what others have said, its all about practice to be fair. I personally go for a softer and longer braking zone, as opposed to the leaderboard fast late and hard route. That approch works great for a hotlap session, not so much in a race where consistency matters more. And I find it gives me more control on corner entry and line throughout the corner.
Its only really when I am coming off a long straight into a very tight and slow corner, where I will even remotely get close to 70% braking applied.
Realisticly, the sweet spot should be whatever you feel comfortable with. And it should change, depending on the corner and/or situation.
You dont need to spend $1500 for a load cell, Ricomotech sell a load sell mod for the T3PA-Pros. I think they have international shipping as well, but not sure. Its a mod I eventually plan to get for my T3PA-Pros though.
