This is a good guide opened my eyes to a lot of things I’d never even thought of
I think it’s a bit rough of LMR harmonic to be so judgemental a general guide designed for (what are we now 500 cars?) to give examples of a couple of cars that it doesn’t apply too. That’s how general guides work
1 Like
Actually I agree with many things he did say. but also 90% of what he did say was circuit and / or car spesific.
This guide is ment to be taken very generally, and would probably be hinderance for him.
But for someone who has never tuned a circuit car and doesn’t have a clue how to make even reasonable car, or has just bought the game couple weeks ago, or has always just used auto upgrade…
For them this guide is very helpful, and for them this guide is aimed for.
1 Like
On any track and any car. The build is always goes down to acceleration. Always build cars for acceleration/handling ratio. Brakes mean diddly.
1 Like
After Acceleration, Brakes are the best place to pass. I so enjoy out braking people going into corners. I’m big on trail braking too. Point and shoot may be faster on some tracks, but it’s not nearly as much fun. For my driving style brakes are very important, and balancing them between front and rear makes a huge difference on corner entry understeer / oversteer.
1 Like
I will remember this every time I’m rear-ended. 
I agree with JackRabbitOne, I trail brake as well so the adjusting the brakes helps 1) shorten my brake distance so I can almost always beat someone into a corner if we’re side-by-side and 2) I use a bit of rear bias to help with turn in and I like to increase the force 5-15% (sometimes more) and using a wheel / pedal helps tremendously with brake control.
1 Like
Should be required reading. Great work! helps alot!
Nice work Juggs! I confess I’ve never really given much though to the behaviour of AI guy, but you and he seem to have developed quite a relationship. The benchmark stats in FM6 are the most errativ of any of the Forzas I have played, so these days I pay much more attention to ‘seat of pants’, and maybe 1% to what the numbers say. You can click through a range of brake or camber settings for example, and watch the benchmark values jag up and down apparently randomly. I don’t think AI guy is consistent at all.
I both agree and disagree with Crav about the brakes. Unless a car has major issues they are probably the least important upgrade. Even less so than a cage. They can sometimes be useful or necessary though. Street brakes frequrently come with no PI cost. Sport brakes often add weight and drop PI while improving stopping distance. The bias and pressure adjustment offered with Race brakes can do wonders with some cars, and with others they can bring a worthwhile weight loss benefit. The only thing I would never add is a flywheel. Flywheels are definitely worth diddly.
Dear Mr. HLR Juggernaut,
I really enjoy your write up. I have probably read it five to six times. Some of the things that you mention, I already do and the rest of it I have never really thought of. I will not get in to the details of it and I certainly will not try to tell you that you are wrong. I have been tuning in this series for a long time and your write up is fantastic. I think that anyone looking to experiment or understand tuning in this game can run with this information. Great job!
Excellent write up!!!
Especially combined with harmonic’s views for more specific build. This is a great thread!!!
Nice write up Jugg, it is a good guide for starters.
The build will always be dependable of the track and what kind of build you are looking for.
What I consider somewhat funny is that I get more responses to this via XBL.
Anyhow, Thank you for the positive feedback. and although I probably should have been bit more spesific with some things, LMR Harmonic’s additions does correct few of the flaw’s.
The feedback I have been getting is mostly what I expected.
“I found it to be most helpfull and though it wont make me super fast it will help me to suck less”
This was where I was aiming for, and apperently I successed on it reasonably well
2 Likes
Fantastic read.
Great read Juggs. I like how you did keep everything generalized to literally be able to build a better car then what you may currently build. Yes there are always circumstances where sometimes you cant do the perfect build but that’s not what you where going for. Very good read and lots of people (new to experienced) can learn from this.
What would be interesting is if you would also possibly edit into your 1st post would be what type of grip you are looking for on each track in the class. It is a lot of work but if people have a better idea where grip should be for a track it may help them build their cars better.
Examples: A class Sonoma 5.9 handling to 6.1, Road America 5.6 to 5.8 handling so on and so forth. Again just a general starting point given certain cars can be driven outside of the specified range of grip and still be very fast. Just an idea but it could help. Again fantastic read!
1 Like
Totally agree I’ve been around since FM3 (though running automatic at that time) fm5 and fm6 have been where huge improvements of understanding have happened.
the “mid” track–“accel” track and grip track descriptions-- are a little bit lost on me.
Grip: Sonoma, hock (short), lime rock, rio mini and mountain—
Accel: Sebring, long beach
Speed:
If we had a comprehensive understanding of this --the builds and tuning I think a lot of new community players would benifit greatly and Juggs. You did a phenomenal job on this guide and type of build to track would dovetail perfectly.
I have been working on this and then stopped, Maybe I should finish it and post it up.
1 Like
I put a car in for feedback in the 90’s fwd tuning comp and received feedback to say that my tuning was good but my build shouldn’t have had the race gear box because the PI could have been used for a bit more speed. I had read this thread before I entered but decided to stick with the race box because I could set the gears for the track.
Anyway, last night I took my Evo IX I am using in the weekly comp, I went to the Bernese club circuit and did a basic test, 5 laps, the same tune, the same driver, same track, different transmissions. First I ran the circuit with the PI maxed to c500, a race box and a decent grip tune. My time was 1.31.2. I then ran the circuit with the sport box, a quick guesstimate for the final drive ratio, and recorded a time of 1.31.17. Note the PI dropped to c497. I then ran the course with the stock box, stock ratios and no additional mods, PI is at c487, in the same 5 lap time slot I got a 1.31.25. There was literally no difference.
So I took my extra 13 PI and added in a an engine mod (can’t remember what it was) which increased the power from 290bhp to 305bhp (I think this is right, it was a power increase anyway) and I added a driveline improvement and a flywheel improvement to max out the PI at c500. I only did 3 laps and I hit 1.30.69, 0.5 second inmprovement just like that.
So the lessons and advice that is available on this forum is well worth taking note of. I will be paying more attention to my build from here on in, who knows, I might get good at this game sometime.
1 Like
I bet that if you take out the flywheel (unless it was “free”) and fiddle around with the engine parts, or lighter rims, you could get couple tenths more out of it. Also noting that in alps, (specially the longer ones) you can get away with bit more weight… going without driveline, and with heavy rims, and even more power could have similar effect.
1 Like
This should be stickied for new and experienced players to reference. This would have saved me alot of time a year or so ago. While the tunes will vary wildly based on someones driving style, the best builds will be very close in comparison. I rarely swap engines anymore and use turbos/superchargers only when absolutely necessary… The I-6 and 5.7 V8 are still the better choice in some instances but nothing like they were in 5. As far as the 7.0 hemi, if it didnt come with it you are probably better off not using it. I’ve been experimenting lately with aero or I should say, not using aero at all. I built a 69 Charger to A class with no aero and its grippy, its not Catalunya or Alps grippy but its probably one of my better tunes for Daytona, the Glen, Road America, etc. I start my build with acceleration in mind, grip next. As the old saying goes, “horsepower sells cars, torque wins races.” I guess I should also admit that by the time I’m satisfied (or I should say somewhat satisfied because I’ll tinker with the tune/build constantly) I usually own 95% of the available upgrades. Swapping this for that is a Cr. expensive habit but I find it necessary in order to find exactly what the car is asking from you and what you are asking from the car. Thanks Juggs for the time spent. It’s always nice to see how veteran players go about it.
I should also add that without someone challenging someone elses perception of the way things are, we as humans would still be living in the dark ages so a thank you to Harmonic for adding your knowledge and experience to the thread. Nothing wrong with debating over what makes a car go faster. It’s been my favorite subject since I was a kid
2 Likes
I thing thats really needs to be add here. Rules are meant to be broke.
Jugg’s guide will make a fast well rounded car. Use this guide as the first attemp for a new car. Every track/car is different.
EXPERIMENT!!! Varmintkong and I ended up breaking every rule for the ‘51 mile lemens’ tuning comp, and finished second.
1 Like