I am disappointed with this course of action, not only because it removes cars and therefore choice for me as a user, but also because it seems to be the easy way out. In reality it does nothing to alleviate the problem, in the somewhat changed words of T Swizzle, wreckers gonna wreck, wreck, wreck. Currently people complain of wrecking in Can-Am League, those are not heavy cars, far from it, but the same problem seems evident. Wreckers will use whatever car gives them the option, be it a power tuned Ford Bronco or an aeroed Civic.
In Denmark we have a saying; “Going for the man, instead of the ball”, i.e. tackling the issue by focusing on the means and not the causality and by extension root cause. In all honesty a penalty system, a more efficient in-game report system and a structure of lengthening bans based on number of infractions, is in my opinion the only solution to such shenanigans.
In any case, the removal of these cars is a good start towards cleaning the Hoppers. The griefers that have a low patience threshold may move away from Mutliplayer (or into a “Heavyweight Hopper”) while those who are more determined to ruin our fun may be easier to ban.
More needs to be done, but at least Turn 10 are trying. Hopefully we see more measures or features in future to help us maintain a clean Multiplayer environment, and more effective ways to make greifers accountable for their actions.
It is not. The wreckers, from my experience yesterday, simply moved into different cars, be it Alfa GTV6’s or Ford Escort MK2’s. Yes there were two wreckers in Broncos and a Jeep, but 5 others were in cars that were of medium weight and one of them even in a lightweight aero’ed car. It is simply a ham-fisted attempt, that solves nothing apart from removing a select cars, that were apparently used more often.
It’s a start, isn’t it? With those wreckers you mentioned, I hope you reported them because if they’re trying harder to grief then that should make them open to harder punishments.
In time, the troll problem will be small at most.
I’ve been around here for a long time, so of course I’ve reported them, albeit only via the in-built Xbox live feature.
However I feel this is not the way forward and neither do I feel it solves the issue at hand. The issue is that the proces of reporting people is to complex, seamingly requiring a replay and a PM to the mods on here. Vote kicking doesn’t work either, unlike in previous games, where a vote was at the very least held in the lobby.
I for instance used the limo online on Oval, as the long Wheel base and high power made for a great and stable straight line car. Now I’m not saying it isn’t an issue that people could use it as a road block, but ghosting should solve that in my opinion. It in my opinion has just moved the crashers to other cars. This doesn’t mean they’re trying harder, they’ve not changed their modus operandi, they’ve only changed their car, is that really trying harder? In the end if there were only one car, crashers would use that.
Look at it this way. The crashers now know for sure that T10 is watching and taking action now.
I think thats a good thing. They will log into their game, and their weapons of crashy fun and joy will not be there.
A % of them will just use other vehicles. A few may move on to the next game. But they all know that the deliberate crashing isn’t tolerated.
To further bolster some of the opinions here on “realism” and whacky car modeling, I regularly race with one of the faster guys in the lobbies. I won’t name him but he’s generally pretty damned fast, shares a lot of tunes and is (as far as I can see) in the top 50 or less of every leaderboard I watch.
He’s easily faster than I am, I’ll readily and unashamedly admit that. In general he’s about .5 -.7 seconds a lap faster than me which, if you know anything about racing pretty much means he never has to worry about me catching him.
When he runs a “normal” car, i.e. a car that one would consider “normal for the environment” he’s still the fastest guy on the track. Rarely does anyone beat him. But when one of his buddies jumps on and things get competitive they each jump in a hopped up VW Type 2, or Jeep Willys or Vandura and they proceed to just wipe the track clean with their lap times - easily 2-3 seconds per lap faster than anyone. It does depend on the track, of course. Short windy tracks like Lime Rock, Brands Hatch Indy or Rio Mountain don’t lend themselves to these straight line rocket ships but any track with a decent straight is the perfect environment for these ridiculously over-powered rocket sleds.
On Road America East the fastest cars there are '70s era MX-3s that easily reach 180mph by the end of the straights - easily 30mph faster than the next capable car.
So you tell me: why does he use those cars? Because they offer an unfair and unbalanced advantage against all other cars. So these races aren’t a skills competition any more than they are an exploit competition.
Again, a mix of cultures and ideals and not anything that everyone will agree on.
For starters, why are you talking about the Jeep Willys all the time? All the way up to A class that car is VERY good, it’s not one of the “banned” cars, it’s not a challenging car to use and it’s not a “tank”. And you keep calling these cars straight line rocket ships, why? My Ford Bronco, Land Rover Defender, Willys jeep, VW Type 2, Jeep Wagoneer, Escalade, and Cyclone are all for tight tracks. And some of them are so good I won’t use them, like the both of the jeeps mentioned and Defender, I can top 20-30 probably any track in B class between those 3 cars (using various tunes), all the way from Lime Rock to the Ring. I’m sorry but you just don’t know as much about the balancing of cars throughout various classes as you think you do, probably because you’re not a nerd like me and have other hobbies.
The game is NOT realistic no matter how much you want to believe it is, the game was sold as what it was, and it came with the option to use these cars. You can’t buy a game like that, and then complain that you want more realism, go play Project Cars or another game if you want more realistic car choices, stop trying to bend it to what you want it to be, cause it’s not only unfair to players with differing views but it’s what you signed up for when you bought the game, we’ve had cars like this since I can remember, which is from Forza 3 onwards.
Double posted for some reason, pretend this post doesn’t exist…
This is the core disagreement between what I believe and you believe (along with those that agree with each of us). I believe you’re completely over estimating the effect of these cars, in fact I’d argue you’re at a disadvantage using a Limo over a LB car. But I’ll even go along with your logic, of large heavy cars being easier to use than fast LB cars. But not every large car has been restricted from hoppers have they? I can still use my Jeep Wagoneer, Impala, and other cars that have the same dimensions, if not larger than some of the restricted cars.
SUV’s, Vans, Trucks, have been singled out, not because of their size, but because some 10 year olds are using them to fulfil their fantasy of flipping cars off the road in a ball of fire like they saw in mad max. Now even if, these few 10 year olds who use large cars to wreck everyone no longer do it, because now that their Ford Raptor with a Baja kit has been taken from them they’ve magically had a change of heart, what have you actually achieved? Okay so now I might be wrecked by a couple less kids fulfilling their fantasies per month, but you know what I’ll notice allot more? The fact that now I can’t use these cars and fulfil my fantasy of beating sports cars in my Escalade, these kids have ruined the game for me not by wrecking me, but by having these cars that I enjoy taken away from me. Now they haven’t just wrecked me and cost me the win on one of my 100’s of races per month, they’ve taken away the aspect of the game I enjoyed most.
That’s really all I want to say, and I wish I just said that from the beginning instead of arguing with everyone pointlessly.
Some people in this thread… wow.
Racing the big vehicles is great fun, a lot of my most enjoyable/closest battles I’ve had have been in these cars. For those that say these cars don’t belong in a motorsport game, that’s a pathetic argument. By that logic we should remove every vehicle that doesn’t have racing pedigree. One of the main things that makes Forza enjoyable is the great variety of vehicles, and the fact we can whack stupid power into said vehicles if we so wish. Not many games offer this, in what other games can you get 24 Limos and go racing around a street circuit?
I totally understand T10’s logic in banning these vehicles. But surely they must have realized it isn’t just the big vehicles that cause the crashes? I’m more often taken out by people in LB cars than those in SUVs and the like.
If you don’t think SUV’s are a problem you haven’t played enough. Simple as that.
I race in a group of 4-6 and we are very close to each other in lap times. 3 of us are always at the front , 1 at the back and the rest are in the middle.
We have had tons of problems with loading into games, lots of the time half of us can’t see each other or other cars on the track. They sit at the start finish line. It is insane, so we have to hop from lobby to lobby a lot.
We would end up more often then not in a lobby with at minimum 2 SUV’s and usually they would be good enough to compete, but instead they usually clog up the track… Drive side by side very slowly… Ram people etc. we have finished last from 1st on the last lap more time then I can count. Get on a straight, and they are there moving just fast enough that they can get in your way, then the 2nd Rams you.
Then they take turns using you as a punching bag till the next group of cars come through. It’s even worse when 2 cars are making sure a 3rd wins. What is the point in a racing game if your not trying to race. also what is the point in the vote to kick if you can’t kick someone… 10 cars in a lobby 6 of us vote to kick but the guy is still there?
I’ve run into this before(dual SUV’s and or Limo’s). Two can be very tough to deal with…
My most recent encounter with these double teamers happened on one of the Indy track configs. I was 1st and they were slow rolling at the end of a straight waiting. I managed to punt the first one by giving him a good speed boost from behind and off the track he went…while he was mowing the grass, I pitted the other and he could not get turned around before I pulled away.
More often than not though, if I manage to take care of one, the other does get me.
It reads like a page ripped from reality…
Even when they are not intentionally wrecking, they are a pain to race against because of their size and pace, normally the people who use them aren’t very skilled either and are all over the place on the circuit. It cannot be denied how many problems they cause. I have done over 400 MP races in the regular B hoppers and cars like limos, suvs and trucks cause problems EVERY single time. When you choose cars like that most, if not all of the people in the lobby loathe you for it because all they do is ruin the experience for the rest of us.
Kudos Turn 10 for doing things for the greater good.
Think I’ve done over 1000 MP races, and guess what? EVERY car with a slower driver holds me up, all the way from Minis to Limos, it doesn’t matter. It’s a video game with HUGELY differing levels of skill between players, there’s no way to avoid this without skill based matchmaking and forced cars. AND even still, for the 100th time it feels like I’m saying this, we still have cars available of similar, and larger sizes than some of the cars banned. Everyone likes to ignore this point though it seems, hell I don’t fully agree with it, but if you wanted to ban the Hummer, Gurhah, and Limo I would be far more understanding of this argument, and I’d probably be fine it with it overall.
This “Well I find it annoying overtaking them, so screw you and your enjoyment of these vehicles” argument is an absolute joke, and it’s completely unfair to take away an aspect of the game people enjoy over it. Where is the line drawn? If I drive a Fiat 595 do I get to use the same argument because your Chevy Impala is so big in comparison? Or do you get to decide where the line is drawn and we just have to deal with? Like you’re implying.
Seems like the line has been drawn. The big dumb cars you like to use to feel great about winning in the lobbies are gone. There are obviously still other big dumb cars that you have listed that are still there. Use those.
That fact you think they’re just “big dumb cars I use to feel good about winning” is an issue in itself, I’m sick of having to defend my enjoyment of an aspect of the game that was there when I bought it, I could just belittle what you enjoy about the game too if I wanted, but I don’t cause that isn’t helping at all, is it?
The line was drawn the second they sold the game with these cars available to us if you wanna use that logic, and they’ve just kicked some sand over it, walked a few meters forward, and drawn a new one.
Here’s a serious question for you. If the game was redesigned to more accurately reflect the performance of these cars you enjoy driving so much, and as a result they were hopelessly incapable of finishing any where near the top 10% of any race would you still drive them?
And if not, why not? You should enjoy driving them no matter where you end up at the finish line.
That is actually what we have car divisions for… or should have. If you pack all the slow and sluggish SUVs and the likes into 1 devision it could be very fun multiplayer. Same with offroad vehicles, they could have their own devision as well. They did car divisions way better in FH2 than in FM6 if you ask me. Now there are already 62 cars that don’t belong to any division, in Horizon 2 this number is… zero.