Again, not true. The top guys will run the top time in spite of the assists because they have the inherent pace. I can 1000% guarantee you that if any top 25 driver ran with and without assists in A or below they would see a decent difference regardless of which assist was turned off. To say that turning off ABS and TCS won’t see any ‘quantifiable benefit’ is just straight wrong, regardless of how the car is tuned or who is driving. If there wasn’t a difference, the people at the top of the leaderboards would use the assists.
Again, you just agreed with me in your disagreement. Everyone is capable of having the same pace in this game, for some it comes easy, for others it is more difficult to attain. But using ABS/TCS/STM will not hinder a person on their road to improving their actual driving. In fact it will help them, as the aim should be NOT to light up the markers for the individual assists. Once someone can drive with the assists on to that degree, then they should be able to turn them off without any drama. My main point however, is why should someone have to turn those assists off, if having them on helps them to feel comfortable and confident at the game?
You will barely see me get that high on the leaderboard, as I have a rather short attention span, and I am just not an overly competitive person in my personality. I very often avoid leaderboard cars by choice, I avoid leaderboard lines like the plague (An LB time on Yas or Monza would make me feel cheap), and I spend 95% of my time pottering around in cars that are 100% bone stock. Often pushing them as hard as possible to see if I can get them to behave like “this”, or messing around drifting like “this”. But as can be seen in those pictures above, when I want to cut loose and hang with the people within the top 50 on the LB; I can do with very minimal effort. I just don’t like doing it, as it makes things too easy for me. Even when I very rarely go racing online in the hoppers, I will more often than not be in a car that is bone stock. Allows me to race middle of the pack and actually have a race, as opposed to been out front hotlapping by myself.
I may not be in the top 10, but I, evidently, do know a thing or two about driving quick in this game. And if a persons driving is good, then ABS/TCS/STM will in no way hinder them, as I have just proven in “this video”. The only thing that stopped me from beating “RPM Lou” in that video, was my own screw ups in a few places, and the fact I just grabbed a tune from Slux to run with, when I usually run with my own tunes. Still not bad though, for a car/tune I am not used too. And only took me 4 laps to get that time. (Also @Slux C63s AMG, if you happen to be reading this; that is one awesome tune on that civic).
As I said in my first post, use whatever makes you feel comfortable and confident in the game; forget what everyone else says with regards to turning them off. Its just the same arguments surrounding the use of a wheel or a controller, and to which of them allows someone to be faster. The real fact of the matter is, it just doesn’t matter at all. Forget what everyone else uses, and just go with what you want.
The only thing that will remotely slow you down in this game, that will hinder you (but not stop you) hitting the top spots in the lower classes, is not using manual with clutch. In the higher classes, such as with the full on race cars, even manual with clutch gets negated to a point. So if all you race are prototypes, F1 cars, and so on, using the clutch isnt as big of a deal.
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Wow… what a well thought out, written and composed reply. Thank you so much. With that issue put to bed, how would you recommend going about simply driving better, assists or no?
I had plenty of time to write it out while waiting for the video of me driving the civic with the assists on, to render out and upload to youtube. Though youtube has tanked the quality a bit. Still, it gave me time to proof read and changing the wording in a few places. I suffer with dyslexia, so I have to take my time with writing out long responses.
You, and anyone else who has the same questions, are very much welcome.
Well for me, I just started to drive the cars without any tuning at all. I practice with them all 100% stock, if I do upgrade them, then I still drive them stock and add one part at a time and test drive. When I started doing that, I also dropped down to the lowest classes. Slowing things down quite a lot, can go a long way to showing where there are inconsistencies in your driving. It all becomes about keeping your momentum and speed up in the lower classes, which helps overall with your racing line. That makes your driving better once you start going up to the higher classes again.
Try to use rivals as much as possible also, as this will allow you to follow someones “ghost” who is faster than you. But always set a baseline first, just so you know what time you are able to get without a ghost there. That will allow you to pick a time that is not too fast, or is not too slow. At most you want to follow someones ghost that is a second faster than you, and when you beat it, back out and find someone else. If you make it into the top 70, start picking a ghost that is at most 00:00.500 faster than you. And if you make it into the top 20, even less than that.
I also do a lot of drifting, which helped me to learn more about counter steering and throttle control. This allowed me to move past using TCS and STM, as I was able to tell when the car was about to lose traction. And throttle control helps to keep a small slide from becoming a full on drift, and it also helps to curb understeer. I also try to avoid coasting, as I like to keep the car I am driving as balanced as possible.
All in all it comes down to repetitive practice, you just need to make sure you teach yourself good driving behaviors; which is why going all the way back to the beginning again is so beneficial.
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I agree that for the most part, that switching to Manual with clutch is most important, and that you can still run top 5% -10% times on some tracks. But, I have noticed slight differences in my times when I turn on TCS, STM and even ABS. The TCS & STM assists do actually slow the car IF they actually have to kick in, ABS just seems to adversely affect my braking, and braking is a very important part of racing in my opinion ( but no, I am not one of the fastest in the game).
For the OP, I used all assist all the way up to Forza 4. I was never capable of being competitive or winning challenges, so I took the leap and turned off all assists (except in cars above A class, because I have not mastered them yet).
What I did:
I went to Test Drive with a well tuned, stable D Class car, and changed assists to manual w/clutch, and then ran laps until I was able to comfortably shift and it became second nature. Then I moved up to C Class, then B, then A. Then I did the same thing with the other assists, starting with ABS, then STM, then TCS. It took a lot of laps with each assists to get comfortable with the assist being off, but my lap times kept getting faster and it was easy to see my progress.
Once I had the assists off, I started running Rivals and chasing ghosts. I learned better racing lines, brake points, how to hit the apex of a turn and how to be SMOOTHER. By smoother, I mean subtle changes in controller inputs as opposed to harsh changes. I also learned how to subtly brake, while also accelerating, to manage cornering much more efficiently. Smooth is fast.
After that, it’s mostly a lot of good practice. I prefer rivals, where I can chase ghosts. And learning “landmarks”. Landmarks are spots on the track where you need to do something, like brake or begin turning. This takes a lot of laps in the class of car you plan to race on that track, because every car and every class changes your landmarks to some degree.
Then, more practice. Remembering that Smooth is Fast and momentum is easier to manage than rapid acceleration (usually).
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Many, many thanks so far.
How much time can be picked up with no assists? For example, with the Lambo I ran something like a 1:52.5 or something at Monza. The best times are around 1:48 I think. Give me a guestimate on how much I can pick up once I’m use to no assists…
If you are driving cleanly without cuts then that is already an OK time. If you are already taking the quick lines then I would hope no assists would knock at least 1 second at least from the lap time.
If you’re cutting the chicanes and have that time… You should be able to pick up another 1.5-2 seconds without assists. If you’re driving it completely clean like IRL, that’s a good time. Either way, getting the assists off make you quicker. Since you’re already running manual gears., I’d suggest starting with a clutch. Once you swap the parking brake with the clutch, it’s just a matter of hitting A and the X or B button for shifting at the same time. It’s a really easy transition to make. ABS would be next for me. The haptic feedback in the triggers gives you a good idea of when you’re locking up. Get to the slight vibration point and back it off just a bit. You’ll slow down a lot faster with ABS off, so you’ll need to take time to adjust your braking points. Finally, TCS is the tricky one. I still run it in some LMP cars or F1 cars. But most you’ll be faster if it’s off, particularly on launches and corner exit. But if you’re a brake late and then smash the gas at the apex driver it’s a big transition to make more gradual throttle movements on corner exit. You’ll be slower until you realize that smoother is faster.
I did a 1:51.25 with full assists. I decided to try less assists, turned off ABS, TCS, STM and went for manual transmission (without clutch). After 30 laps I was comfortable with the new feeling. The most important thing is to learn to drive analog instead of digital, you have to respond to trigger feedback and not always just press them fully. Once you get that right you’ll prefer braking like this over ABS. You can gain a lot of time that way, I got to a 1:50.3 easily and could’ve entered the low 49s with more time, just didn’t feel the need. I still prefer assists in online racing.
I’ve found it very car and track dependent. I typically drive with TCS & STM off, ABS on, Automatic (because I’m lame). In career mode I’m driving at the “Highly Skilled” level. Most of the time I can get 1st to 3rd with little problem, but sometimes the car or track just kicks my butt. My car trouble is usually that they are overpowered and I can’t accelerate without spinning around, or when cornering the suspension is too loose and I end up oscillating out of control.
With TCS & STM off, I can float the car around corners faster, and punch it harder coming out of the corners. But with TCS on I don’t have to play the accelerator, I can just squeeze the trigger.
In the Porsche expansion I just got to the Sebring race. Yeouch! I can’t imagine driving that beast without all the assists on.
And I see your Forza Total is way higher than mine, so you should probably ignore any advice I give. 
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I run no assists with clutch most of the time with a few exceptions but the biggest thing that helped me was changing the advanced controller settings. ABS and STM are too much of hindrance and I got much better without them back in my early Forza days, TCS is a hindrance most of the time too but it’s good for some R & X class cars.
Switching the handbrake and clutch buttons is by far the best way to use manual with clutch. Another thing that helped was changing all the inside deadzones to 0 and then changing my outside deadzones to 100, except for steering which I kept at 95.
It will take some time to master if you remove them both as you will need to get use to how to control the car around corners etc. with the computer engine aids you’ve been accustomed to. It will be also very frustrating at first then when mastered you’ll be able to move faster through corners and out angle your competition. I started playing Forza at the outset of FM5 and I started without any assists except for manual without clutch (I really don’t see how the clutch is an assist!!). You are already manual shifting, which is good, be ready for the initial frustrations of transitioning to not using ABS and TCS. Good luck pal!
Turn off each assist you want to get rid of one at a time and practice in Rivals or against the Drivatar until you’re used to it.
I’ve grown to really enjoy the clutch, surprisingly. Rev matching and letting off the throttle slightly for smooth shifts adds a bit more to the experience.
Guys please help me. I’m using the following assists TCS & STM, manual with clutch. How to start in a fast racing car like Porsche 911 GT1. When I try to start, revs go down and the car does not move. What should I do?
This is a known bug. Ivdont think there is a solution other than not using clutch.
Rev the hell out of it on the line, then double-tap the clutch as the countdown hits 0.
You’ll start a bit slower than without clutch, but it’s better than stalling for those occasions when you forget to turn off the clutch when you change car (and the 4 races afterwards, if you’re me).
Ok, thanks.
TCS is killing the Lambo’s AWD, little doubt about that and it has nothing to do with driver skill. I would estimate 1 to 2 tenths benefit if you put it off on a track like Monza. And in the Lambo you really dont need TCS to assist you.
I’ve found that any assist makes the cars feel very strange.
I own a 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart and when I first started playing Forza (Forza 4 had just come out), I gave the 2008 Lancer Evo a spin. I had all assists on because I had never driven a simulation type game before, and aside from the initial adjustment period, the car just felt…weird.
As I kept practicing, I turned off more and more assists. Lo and behold, by the time I had turned off every assist, the Mitsubishi drove pretty much the same way my actual car does!
The assists are great when you’re first learning how to handle the physics and controls. But once you have a solid grasp of that stuff, the assists are like wearing a thick pair of gloves. You can still do everything you need to do with them on, but everything feels…numb and weird.