9/8/24 update
With the release of the Aston Martin V8 Vantage GTE, I thought I’d get ahead this before we actually see the build when GT2 comes back around. I’ve had a chance to test it and honestly the stock 822 PI build is fine and would situate it right with the M6, Viper, and C7R. Tierlist would look like this.
I still recommend basically the same changes to bring the cars close together, but with the stock V8 Vantage added.
8/14/24 update
Another week with the cars. My opinion hasn’t changed much, but it has slightly with more time in the cars. So I am providing an updated tierlist with more minor changes most of the cars. 1st my updated tierlist.
It is mostly the same, but with more time in the cars and racing other experienced drivers, I feel the C7R is basically on par with the M6 and Viper. Each one has their strengths, C7R top speed, Viper handling, and M6 acceleration. But at most tracks they are going to be within 1-2 tenths of each other at most. 15 RSR is good if you can handle it. Car is super unstable though. BMW lags behind M6. C8R is just to slow on the straights, Ferrari lacks grip, and Ford is anemic on acceleration.
Recommended changes:
I listed the changes next to the cars. Viper/M6/C7R left alone. Changes are meant to being the cars closer to those. PI in parenthesis is the adjusted PI based on power handicaps. You can see there is no major changes, just changes to bring the cars closer. This would be my adjusted tierlist if these were implemented.
Ferrari probably needs another rear tire width to gain the lateral Gs it need to compete. But I didn’t want to go overboard. 10 HP to C8R, -68 pounds to Ford GT, +10mm tire width to M8, +5 HP to 15 RSR should bring them close to the M6/Viper/C7R. -10 HP brings RSR down to that level. Remember to not balance the RSR around club level difficulty with full fuel tanks.
From my testing I believe the fuel tank on the RSR is larger than the other cars significantly. The M8 has a 24g fuel tank, everything else about 20. Not sure aobut 15 RSR. Based on fuel loads in game, I’d estimate the 17 RSR around 28. 8 gallons of fuel is 64 pounds. That is like the car having ballast added to it, or like 4-5 PI hit compared to 20g fuel load cars. Even with this disadvatage in rivals, the 17 RSR was 3-4 tenths faster than the C7R (from ESV Green posted times). -10 HP will not make the car weak.
7/31/24 update
After getting another week with the cars, I got a better feel for them balance wise. so I have my own tierlist. It may not be entirely accurate, especially concerning the C8R, but I feel it’s pretty good and have some consensus from other good players.
17 Porsche - Still way OP
BMW M6 - Better accleration and handling than the M8. M8 has slighlty better top end, but only barely.
Dodge Viper - Good Acceleration and prett ynearly matches C8R for handling. Close in pace to M6, will be better on pure handling tracks, but feel it loses out a tiny bit everywhere else.
C7R - Slightly better top end than 17 Porsche with almost identical acceleration. Does not have the Porsche’s rocket launch or accleration traction in the rain and due to ballast handles much worse thna it. Still a strong car.
15 Porsche - I am struggling to make this car work ona wheel. It’s just all over the place. I’ve seen controller players make it work and it’s in a decent place.
M8 - Down slightly on pace to the C7R/15 Porsche. Not too much though.
C8R - This car is a straightline sitting duck. Weak on accleration and top end, it’s best in cloass handling just doesn’t seem to quite overcome it. On maple valley i was just as quick on the viper on the one track the C8R should theoretically dominate. I was 6 tenths slower than the M6 on Watkins, another demanding handling track with high speeds. It needs more power.
Ferrari GTE - Needs more grip.
Ford GT - Weakest accleration, it’s another straightline sitting duck. Handling is good, but not viper good, and top end is midline.
Quick and dirty fixes.
Porsche - 10 HP nerf to 498
M6 - 5 HP nerf to 517.
Viper - 5 HP Nerf
C7R - leave alone, or 10 hp nerf with wider tires added to make up for it to keep it in the same place.
15 RSR - Leave Alone
BMW M8 - Wider rear to to 325, give it a bit more handling.
C8R - 10 HP buff, may be slightly too strong, but not too far.
Ferrari GTE - increase front and rear tire widths to 310/325.
Ford GT - 10 HP buff or add race brakes and race driveline (-63#) back on. I’d prefer the latter. both will increase pace by a similar amount at most tracks.
Those are quick buff/nerfs that pull all the cars closer to the strong Category and should even the pace out quite a bit. Talking with Grimm Legion’s community though, people loved the M6 and didn;t want the C8R redone with ballast again as i had in the previous recommendation. So I took a good hard look at the class and decided what could I do if I balanced around the M6 which everyone loved. I noticed all the car with added weight (ballast or removal of race brakes) sand set out to create a BoP based arounf the M6 as it is now where none of the cars had ballast or had reduced weight to returning race brakes. This also has the effect off balancing the 17 Porsche, Ford Gt, and BMW M8 like they used to be in terms of PI, 824/832/831 previously, now 815/822/821 respectively accounting for power modifiers. Every car is lighter now except those near top. Some required larger power nerfs to bring in line. It looks like this. The PI in brackets is the estimated PI with power/handling modifiers.
Top speeds look like this
In this version, we do what we can to balance around the M6 and the adjusted RSR/Ford GT/M8. Those cars should now be on par with Viper in terms of speed and handling. C7R goes on a diet, but loses some muscle. C8R should be the best handling car still, but not too far off on top end or accelration now. Vipers 3 HP nerf is s light adjustment to make up for not being able to nerf it’s handling anymore in slight amounts. Ferrari goes on major diet, but gets another power nerf. Still add rear tires. Also uses 600 HP restrictor with 10% nerf on power because the resctrictors lowers weight by 10# which is not insignificant. M8 gains rear tires, which should help the problem of spinning the tires with Turbo torque. Really hard to get power down at 310 tires and a nightmare in the rain. Ford GT goes ona diet, keeps same power. Basically this recommendation gets you to the same place as the previosu suggestions, but up to the meta level with the M6 and overall better feeling cars to drive.
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My lastest comprehensive recommendations for both classes are in this other suggestion topic here GT2/GT3 Class Car Breakdown and further BoP feedback.
So I have had the chance to go through the new GT2 class. I’m not a huge fan of the wholesale changes, given the GTE cars that make up the GT2 class were all pretty much close as they were. Nerfs to the Viper/C8Rs, grip, buffs to M6/C7R power, and the power nerf to 554 HP with full tires was likely all that was needed.
But here we are and I doubt we will see a reversal, so I want to give constructive feedback. This is ESV Green’s tierlist which he shared with us on discord. Used with permission. Also Green currently holds the top GT2 spot on the rivals board at Barcelona.
Green is a top level racer/tuner with homologation experience, so I will use this as a reference for pace. The thing I want to bring to the table is homologating straightline speeds, acceleration and top speed. I was able to get the Daytona speeds from featured MP and do some testing in freeplay for comparisons on builds. This is important because the closer the speeds are, the easier it is to balance acceleration/handling pace for other tracks. The current BoP is a mess in this regards with the C7R and 17 Porsche RSR way faster than anything else, the C8R being a sitting duck on the straights while handling better than anything else. This is the testing I did and the bottom is estimated speeds (I couldn’t set exact HP numbers in freeplay) of the builds I will share.
Before I share the builds, I want to make a couple points.
- Spec series with BoP applied absolutely needs to be an option for rivals and freeplay. The current GT2 rivals baords shows how OP the 17 Porsche RSR currently is. But that is one track and limits our ability to see performance at other types of tracks. Spec Rivals for all tracks like open class needs to be an option. Should be for all series, but at least GT2/3 and TC. The ability to set a time in each car and then sort by car like you can in Automobolista 2 would be very helpful as well.
- We need the option to reduce/increase HP and grip in 1% increments during freeplay/private multiplayer. Currently we can only handicap in 5% increments. Freeplay is crucial to determining actual pace balance, because rivals enforces full fuel loads. Some cars have larger fuel tanks (31g for Merc GT3 vs 20g for many of them) and take a bigger hit in rivals and with fuel turned off.
Basically, if you want accurate feedback from top players, we need the tools to test the cars fully in order to give more accurate feedback. If I was able to get these tools, I could have collected accurate acceleration zone data and not had to estimate top speeds.
This is the current builds and my recommeded changes that get the speeds closer and close the handling gap between cars. I tried to limit wholesale recommendations, but the C8R needs a different build to be BoP properly. I see what youa re trying to do with car weights for tire wear, but it created too many problems.
Let em go through the cars from top of Green’s tierlist to bottom.
17 Porsche RSR - Ridiculously OP right now. Even with the corvette C7R for straightline speed, but handles way better. Green commented that in rivals, he was 4 tenths faster than C7R. I saw his 1:43.3 time with C7R and 1:42.9 with the Porsche. The Porsche was already evenly balanced with the BMW M8 and Ford GT under the old builds when it had 7-8 less PI. The M8 is now 818 and the Ford GT is effectively 816 PI (10 HP is about a 4 PI hit), and the Porsche is effectively 819 PI with the 5HP buff. It dominates both of those cars and everything else. It did not receive ballast or race brake removal (weight) like those 2 cars did. Even with my chnages, it would effectively be 813 PI and stioll likely the best car in the class.
Corvetee C7R - The next best car is too fast in a straightline. Right now, outside of the Porsche, there is no reason to take anything else at Daytona/Lemans. It’s not the best handling car, but it is solid in that department. My recommended changes bring it’s speed closer to the other cars while still being best top speed car, but also adding rear tires width brings it’s handling up to par to make up for the reduction.
Viper - The Viper was still a bit too strong in handling and accleration, and a tiny bit down on top end. Reverting the restrictor changes gets it top speed up a bit, but adding the ballast gets it acceleration and handling closer to were it should be.
Corvette C8R - This car is strong, but the build will lead it to be being OP on certian tracks (like maple valley) and a sitting duck on others like Lemans. The top end is atrocious, but it’s grip beats anything else. I did a total rebuild on this. Gave it back it’s power, but also gave it ballast like the viper. The return of power to 517 was a bit too much for a car that will still be the best handling car, so recommended a reduction to 512 HP with this build. Will still be the best handling car, but not by much, and and not a sitting duck ont he straights.
15 Porsche RSR - From my testing, this is the only car you give a behind the scenes grip/downforce boost not tied to build. The car in rivals and featured has .02 lateral grip gains at 60/120 mph from the same car in freeplay. This car is probably the whole reason all the others were nerfed so hard on grip. And you still had to add extra grip to make it work. But it does. The car is in a decent place. Hard to drive, but almost where it needs to be. It is the slowest car outside the C8R though in a straightline. I recommend 5 more HP, and a small reduction in the grip/downforce modifier you gave it. It still needs some of that.
BMW M6/M8 - I am including these two together. Green commented on his tierlist saying that the cars were nearly identical, with the M8 having slightly better accleration and the M6 slightly better handling. But they are close and nearly interchangeable. I used these two cars as the benchmark for my recommended changes.
Ferrari GTE - This car lacks grip. The 30 HP nerf is about perfect to put it where it needs to be power wise. Even though it’s down the list on top speed, it is an accleration monster, and will not suffer on any straight. However, it’s grip is at the bottom of all the cars. Adding rear tire width to 325 should get it closer to where it needs to be. It might need the front tires widened to 310 as well for this car to even be close to the handling of everything else. The 30 HP nerf is about a 12 PI hit, and from my past homologation this car needs to be about 2-3 effective PI than the other cars, unlike the 17 Porsche which needs to be about 6-7 PI lower than the other cars.
Ford GT - This car was already weak on accleration, nerfing it 10 HP leaves it probably the worst accelerating car in the class. Top end is mid, and handling it’s handling is good, but not C8R levels. The handling does not make up for it. In my recommendation, I give it back 5 HP and it’s racing driveline. That moves the Ford towards the top of the top speed, still below average for accleration, but that is evened out with it’s above average handling. This car would still likley be the slowest pace car overall, but not by much.
