Driving experience is not realistic in FMA, but can be very easy with little modifications

It’s not borderline understeer, it’s outright understeer. I see it in tuned cars as well.

Been hearing this, ARB’s always made cars too unpredictable in older Forza’s so I stayed away from them. Like I said, I’ve seen tuned cars on the LB’s still understeer.

If the stock platform is bad, the tuned platform will follow suit. I’ve been driving a lot of stock cars lately in previous Forza’s because I never bothered, and it’s been a fun experience. Not with this one, after I add race transmission it’s good, but not great.

I’m no good at tuning, but there’s no way to get that front end grip back from previous Forza’s. I’ve seen it.

Yes, FWD understeers and lift off oversteers due to the weight being mostly at the front. It’s not uncommon to spin a TC because of lift off oversteer. I’ve seen videos of the FL5 Type R easily kicking the rear out.

MX-5’s have good power to weight ratios so they will rotate very well especially on a slick tire. Street tires aren’t designed to rotate as well if I’m not mistaken. Just because a car doesn’t have a lot of power doesn’t mean it won’t rotate especially if it’s light which is why I brought up the Go Kart analogy.

Differentials are designed to keep slip angles in check, but you want to slip or else the car won’t turn fast. Go karts don’t “drift” they slip. Drifting isn’t the fastest way around a track, slipping is.

This game has far more understeer than FM7. It’s far easier.

I don’t do tunes there’s no point. There’s no getting rid of the understeer.

the problem is like i said this gmae is all about F1 handling with no power … and you drive C and D if i am correct … so you gonna race mazda mx5 with 160hp and full race slicks … its never ever gonna rotate with that much grip… drive something else…

but thats because like i siad this game is all about handling so the put F1 tyres under a 160hp mazda mx5 offcourse its not gonna rotate … and making them unpredictable … like you want oversteer and oversteer is nervous and unpredictable on the limit … you want me to help with a basic tune ? ( i only tuned touring cars tough …) only i am on controler and i think i read somewhere you on wheel… still we can try stuff the basics are the same

its not for nothing that Max Verstappen is the only one who can drive the red bull so fast cause he wants a pointy front end and so the rear end is lose… sergio perez cant handle that and wants understeer and a planted rear end…

you forgot to apply my ‘’ i am pretty pretty bad at tuning ‘’ to my quote u used .
man like i said i am pretty terrible at tuning myself … but you have 30 minutes before every race to just lap lap lap and try stuff…

and i think how the car reacts is kinda the same like fm6 (IF YOU DITCH THE STOCK TUNE) good and balanced .

noooo fm7 was way more understeery way more … the problem like i said the BASE TUNE is never been worse in forza history… its all understeer and safe…

you want me to try to build you a rotating mx5 ( C class i think right ?) ? i am no wonder in tuning so dont expect a leaderboard tune but i am willing to help you…

I like every handiling upgrade but ARBs. I like a little body roll if it’s a sports car. ARB’s make things too flat and stiff so I stay away from them.

Every driver wants a pointy front end to some degree, some less than others, the pointier the faster, but it requires next level smoothness, and accuracy, and reflexes.

It doesn’t look anything like FM6 from the replays, no slip no matter the car. FM6 wasn’t balanced, there was front bias for some cars and rear bias for others.

If that’s true then why are FM7’s times faster than FM ‘23? Less understeer = better lap times.

Slip angle explained here.

Edit: I play on controller

its because the car have less hp per class than ever!!! A class has a MAX avarage hp off A weak 370hp … and in fm6 the ‘‘AVARAGE’’ HP is 370-450hp
its because this game is alllll about handling stat and nothing else…

the formula mazda has a laughable 180hp and yet its top 30 on mugello in A CLASS!!

in fm6 the slowest car in A class (straightline speed ) was a ktm xbow with 280hp!!! it was olny fast on 1 track and that was a go kart track called catalunya school ( look it up) and yet here in fm23 its spotted on mugello in the top40 aswell … you see a trend going on…

its because like i said before … you race c class and a 160hp mx5 with race tyres INST GONNA SLIDE…

and fm6 was amazing , fm7 crap , fm7 started this broken meta trend with all about handling and no speed penalty… everyone drove widebody NSX in A class and i tried to race a bmw M5 e60 and even on the straigths with 500hp i had no change… ( even my audi Q7 V12 tdi with 1200nm and 700hp was slow on the straights agianst 300hp nsx , ok ok its a suv still its was in top A class and lots off fun!! :rofl: :+1: :sweat_smile:)

do you want me to make you a tune or not cause i give you rotation maybe not N1 tune but rotation you get

and i say it agian fm7 had the worst phyiscs of any forza the end for me … i think i explained this already maybe not here…
but how the cars steered was like a child putting its hand on the roof and putting it sideways to steer . and in all other forza’'s the front wheels turned and the car followed .

the easiest to see this is to drift… go drift in fm7 and then fm23 and see how weird it looks in fm7 its a joke you see the full side view on fm7 and in fm23 only the door and rear end…

i have got a no aero mx5 cup car with a good tune if you want to try … its really nicely balanced especially on suzuka east … i think its the fastest non aero mx5 tune asfar is i know…

you can save it and then use it when the mx5 cup spec comes back… that does rotate lett me tell you…

and you dont want arb cause it makes it to stiff … then you you complain about understeer if the front only want to hang about and so pushes wide ? and still without ARBs i can still make it rotate no problem… weight transer etc

just keep in mind that 160hp ,full race slikcs, and no ARB and NO TUNE is kinda a hard recipy for trying to get oversteer …

Every car rotates in this game, just not as much.

Rotation explained:

Slip angle Explained:

Like I said a light 160 hp Miata with slicks WILL ROTATE. MORE SO than anything else in its class. If you can’t rotate then you can’t turn, if you rotate TOO MUCH then you lose time due to DRIFTING. You have to keep the SLIDE in an OPTIMAL RANGE or else the TIRES will LOSE TRACTION resulting in a four wheel DRIFT.

There is rotation in the game, just not as much as FM5-7 which is why the times are slower, not because of the power limit. Even if they balanced the Miata and Formula Mazda, they would STILL be faster on Mugello because they’re faster in the corners and they have good acceleration. It’s ALL ABOUT ACCELERATION DECELERATION BRAKING AND CORNERING. What are the ACCELERATION and BRAKING numbers for the Miata and Formula Mazda? That along with cornering is much MORE IMPORTANT THAN TOP SPEED.

I told you that cars don’t ROTATE/SLIP as much in this game resulting in SLOWER TIMES. The times are slower across the board even in P and X-Class.

I told you your tune doesn’t mean anything. I’ve watched the best tunes and there’s still UNDERSTEER ie cars are losing time due to LACK OF GRIP to make corners. UNDERSTEER and OVERSTEER both cause you to LOSE TIME. If you have to brake more to prevent one or the other from happening then YOU LOSE TIME. Which is what’s going on here.

The number one times on the leaderboards know all about rotation, it’s why they are so fast. There is rotation in the game they just don’t rotate as much as they used to.

so you think it makes sense that in fm6 a ktm xbow with 280hp is the slowest A class car and was only fast on a go kart track

and here in fm23 a formula mazda with 180hp goes top 30 on a track like mugello …
so whats the point off all others cars in A class like a ferrari lamobrghini porsche etc if they have no chance and SPEED DOES NOTHING …

THE SPEED STAT OF THE FORMULA MAZDA IS TWICE AS LOW AS A DODGE HELLCAT AND YET ITS JUST AS FAST ON THE STRAIGHT AS THE MAZDA GO KART…

i dont need to watch those video’s i know everything about rotating … its your problem you cant rotate cause you cant tune and dont want to tune and dont understand that 160hp with F1 tyres inst gonna ROTATE …

so a example : if you buy a a mazda mx5 in reallife with 130hp and put 385mm 2023 F1 tyres underneeth the car … you say its gonna rotate everywhere ? maybe in fast corners due weight transfer ,but in slow corners the laughable 130hp isnt gonna move the tyre side wall at all!!

all my cars rotate even some fwd … CAUSE I DONT USE OP META HANDLING CRAP WITH ZERO HP AND F1 TYRES …

to bad i cant posts phone videos on here i show you how i rotate in EVERY car… on this game

thats blabla bla so false … its BECAUSE this game is all about handling even if the car has no oversteer you can still have 3 times the grip overall…

its like saying rotation is better in all examples , so a drift car rotates easy so is faster than a fwd touring car right ? fwd doesnt rotate that well …

the fwd touring nearly doesnt rotate and yet its 3 times faster than a drift car CAUSE HE HAS MORE GRIP … if you look at F1 and see a race onboard (so no qualy) you see all understeer cause they need to save the rear tyres and fuel… and yet its faster than a qualy over /near the limit F2 lap … so the F2 car rotates but is still slower…

in fm6 in C class the honda civic 97 was top 20 leadeboard car on 40% off tracks and its FWD!! so no rotation !! and yet i beated every rwd car with there rotation

What’s the Sim steering bug you mentioned? Are you talking about when steering is set to “simulation” instead of “normal?” I’m on pad too and set it to simulation months ago as normal lacked steering feel to me. But I haven’t been aware of any bugs.

I think it’s a bug in that new vette. (Cover model) Driving that on SIM feels heavily assisted. However other cars feel better.

I reported it here:
https://forums.forza.net/t/hey-theres-something-wrong-with-simulation-steering/669253?u=danloki78

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It’s not blabla bla or false it’s true. If there was no rotation a car would go straight and not turn at all.

Oversteer =/= proper rotation. Understeer=/= proper rotation. Rotating the right way means staying within a tires grip limits. If you slide too much you’ll either drift (oversteer) or not turn enough for the corner (understeer). You need to RESEARCH SLIP ANGLE. FWD’s can rotate just fine if they stay within their tires limits. TC’s rotate just fine FWD cars are just traction limited because the steered wheels are also the driven wheels.

RESEARCH SLIP ANGLE AND TIRE BEHAVIOR PLEASE.

Yes there was rotation, you don’t understand rotation.

Here’s another video on what rotation is EXACTLY and LOOK AT IT because you don’t understand exactly what rotation is. Every car that corners rotates. If there was no rotation there’d be no cornering.

WHAT IS ROTATION?:

That doesn’t matter if the Braking and handling are better for the Mazda. F1 cars aren’t the fastest cars on the planet, but their acceleration, braking, and cornering are all on par or better than the 919 hybrid Evo. The W11 is faster around a track than a car with a higher top speed. Why? Cornering speed, acceleration (on par), and braking.

This let’s me know that you don’t know everything about rotating. Watch the videos and come to a logical conclusion as to if what I’m saying makes sense or not. RACING tires allow MORE ROTATION than STREET tires.

Those tires are too wide for a Miata considering the length and width dimensions of a F1 car are similar to that of a Ford Truck. Even then it’s still going to be able to turn/ROTATE, just not as fast as SLICKS that are within the dimensions of the car. Keep in mind that a Miata weighs more than a F1 car, so yes, the sidewall will move.

Once again look up what rotation and slip angle are before you talk about your cars rotating and top times not rotating.

You haven’t done enough research on what rotation actually is. I’ve provided more than enough information, it’s up to you to listen.

NEUTRAL STEER:

No, because i want test street cars in a simulator very realistic, i want test the new M5 in Nordschleife, but what simulator have the new M5 and Nordschleife? 0. The realistic simulators don’t have cars and tracks

But we don’t have a simulator very realistic that supports HDR10 and 4K, a simulator that have a lot of cars and tracks. With controller, you can’t simulate the sensitive of speed, so you need be able do turn 100% of the wheel when your car are in 200 mph, because its not possible in controller to simulate this, so the Forza need put all the settings that ACC have, stearing speed, sensibility of speed and everthing, just copy the settings that ACC let you change, what is the difficult dumb Forza? Just do this: Let adjust the steering speed, stearing wheel speed sensitivity, cockpit camera height, cockpit camera angle, make the steering wheel rotate more than 180°. If you think its not a good ideia, look how clean the gameplay stay in the Xbox controller with this settings: https://youtu.be/TTzeY3MMHZA?si=latpG3icApbkj9By

no way u said this !!! o my god!!! :rofl: :man_facepalming:
you even gave me a video explaining rotation and i didnt watched it and yet i saw the tumbnail seeing a ferrari 458 drift (rotate ) :man_shrugging: :man_facepalming:

ROTATE IS THAT THE REAR OFF THE CAR GOES OUT TO REDUCE THE STEERINGLOCK NEEDED AND SO THAT THE FRONT END POINTS FASTER INTO THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND GETTING STRAIGHT FASTER TO PUT THE POWER DOWN, WHILE ITS BALANCING ON GRIP ON THE REAR … THATS ROTATION…

you wanna say if you drive your nissan micra 1.3 around town you get rotation all the time and so you drive like they do on the track ? come on man !! rotation needed to steer the car no way you said that…

:rofl: :rofl: :man_facepalming: ROTATION IS IN THE MIDDLE OFF THE CAR , WITH UNDERSTEER THE MIDDLE OFF THE CAR DOES NOTHING!! why do you thing airbag ECU’ are in the middle of the car ? they have a YAR sensor thats a sensor measuring ROTATION OFF THE MIDDLE OFF THE CAR if the rotation is to big … something called ESP kicks in and puts the brakes on certain wheels to make it NOT ROTATE ANYMORE .

they not gonna put the airbag ECU in the front headlight cause the YAR sensor NEEDS THE MIDDLE OF THE CAR …

very simple : you explain to me around wich point does a car spin out ? (so if its goes out off control and goes round like 2-4 times ? ITS THE MIDDLE … if you throw a stick and throw it from one off its ends , whats its gonna do ? ROTATE ROUNDS ITS MIDDLE …

i really need to be the physics teacher here looks like it…

Max Verstappen’s Incredible Pole Lap | 2023 Monaco Grand Prix | Pirelli (youtube.com)

look at 0:29 the hairpin thats understeer and rear follows the front …

and now look at 0:34-0:36 THATS ROTATION you see he gets lees steering lock thanks to the rear going outwards and so the car ROTATES AROUND ITS MIDDLE AXLE AND TURNS ON POWER . THE CAR IS LIKE A PIVOT POINT IN THE MIDDLE…

LOLLL so if the sidewall moves its rotation … :rofl: :man_facepalming: so a wheelbarrow has rotation 2 cause the sidewall goes up and down the whole time … :rofl:

This is the BEST way to visualize Neutral Steer in Racing! (youtube.com)

so just look at the thumb nail i wouldnt care less off the video … around wich point does the car rotate ? its middle . its even in the title neutral steer ( optimal rotation)

wow i taught i found someone smart who saw the balance problem aswell and that the stats dont make sense ,but not … :man_facepalming:

what a great forum… no one reads or thinks what the other tries to say…(80%)

i dont understand a thing what you say only maybe one bit…

the steering wheel animation… yes its slow and smooth and the controller imputs are harsh and direct … but you wanna say that games like dirt rally has a good steeringwheel animation for a controller ? if you go full lock (controller )the steering wheel(game) turns at a speed of light to full lock. no like thats nice to look at or do you everytime you just touch the thumbstick the steeringwheel goes bezzerk.

. …i think forza did great cause its smooth and and to the point … yes its doesnt go further than 180 degree but who cares !! that just looks ugly to go further than 180 degrees and would not make sense in a chicane (cause it needs to animation to go to the other turn wich takes to long) and furthermore if you drive fast like on a racetrack you need less and less lock …

you come to a simcade game wich is in the basics made for controller players and you gonna complain about a animation of a steeringwheel doing to less lock…

like all simracers have we have 20000999 off those have the right animation for you steering wheel users… and we simcade players on a controller have 2-3 simcade games made for controllers , you wheel users really want everything right … you dont want to give anything away and be nice to NON wheel users w o only have 2-3 games left agianst the 20000999 simracers u guys have already…

go buy a cheap fast car (reallife )if you already played the 20000999 simracers already and completed them . dont come to a simcade game and ruin it for the non wheel users who just want laidback racing with a controller in there hand after a days off work…

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Okay, where does it say any of what you’re saying, rotation is initiated by the front axle, not the static rear axle. Rotation is not drifting, it’s sliding (slipping). Too much slip and you’ll lose time. A car that understeers is still rotating, just not enough to make the corner because of the loss of traction. Oversteer means loss of speed due to loss of traction. The car will still rotate, and make the corner, but it is NOT the fastest way around a track. Keep in mind that like spinning the tires in 1st gear in a high powered car is just like what happens in rotation. There’s still grip available but not as much as if the tires weren’t overwhelmed.

Understeer is when the front tires lose grip thus decreasing the desired yaw angle, oversteer is where the rear tires lose grip causing too much yaw angle. You have to operate the tires in a range, or else you’ll under or oversteer resulting in a loss of time.

Lateral acceleration acting against the tires of the Miata? Have you thought about that?

I’ve seen that video, you still haven’t acknowledged slip angle.

That’s you bud, you just turned down many opportunities to see my position.

Btw if you get technical, rotation doesn’t occur in the middle of the car. It varies depending on drivetrain layout, but center is a good starting point.

Most of his rotation is done before the apex as it should be. He’s using all of the grip available in that low speed corner, he’s rotating through every corner basically. He has more rotation going into a corner than coming out of it under power as he should.

I just wanted to reply to that for try to understand.

Having too much rear tires width, or too much Aero on the rear can cause understeer, because it doesn’t allow enough “rotation” on the rear (too much grip/too much planted) so the front doesn’t want to point the apex of the corner, but on this situation the front tires doesn’t loose grip, the repartition of grip is just “unbalanced”, so that isn’t understeer ? :thinking:

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If the rear tires have more grip than the front tires then the car will understeer. If the front tires have more grip than the rear tires the car will oversteer. If the car has too much grip at the rear, the front tires will lose grip trying to turn the grippy rear tires.

Oversteer and understeer are explained here.

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i give up … you go keep complaining about there is no rotation in this game (while there is)
and keep on driving youre no tuned, underpowered, F1 grip ,OP meta car.

you give me all kinds off videos … i dont even need to watch them and i already see in the thumbnail that a car rotates around the corner … with its rear sticking out (so drifts) YES OFFCOURSE ITS NOT A SLIP ANGLE OF 50 DEGREES LIKE DRIFTING :man_facepalming: EVEN 1 DEGREE ITS STILL DRIFITNG BUT WE DONT CALL IT DRIFTING ITS CALLED OPTIMAL ROTATION…

youre point is false … so its your problem it doesnt matter where in the name off god the engine is placed rotation is always been done in the middle … you wanna say a porsche that spins out does it differently to a front engined car ?

2016 Blancpain GT Misano 2160 Spin (60 FPS) (youtube.com)

^^ so you wanna say the audi R8 didnt rotate around its middle axle … :rofl: :sweat_smile: :man_shrugging:

Onboard Emilien Denner (Sodi/TM) Lonato WSK Super Master Series (youtube.com)

tell me that this is slow . this guy drives a practice for a world championship
and you see nearly NO STEERING INPUT SO HE DRIFT AROUND NEARLY EVERY CORNER … if this is a world championship and you say drifting (1-2 degree ) is slower that means you gonna beat them all in you no slip angle technique …?

youre the guy who doesnt understand , you never watched qualifying laps …on the limit driving

Young Max Verstappen’s INSANE Driving Style (youtube.com)

go watch from 5:24 onward (5:45 ‘‘TO PIVOT IN THE CORNER’’ :wink: :kissing_heart: )… so you know it better than a 3 time F1 world champion? you need to be a F1 race instructor then…
you see his steering wheel move all the time and its called DRIVING ON THE LIMIT… ROTATION!!!