Cross country events are an absolute joke + grievances

Forza Horizon Legacy Horizon FH2 Discussion
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Okay, first off i’d just like to say that I am generally very pleased with all the advancements made since H1. I’ve always been a car culture fan, been playing since FM2 and Horizon was as far as car culture is concerned one of my biggest dreams to where the Forza franchise could go next. That being said i was quickly turned off by H1 bc of lack of tuning, freedom on the roads and the inability to swap drivetrains and such. In that aspect FH2 has won me over quite solidly, I can’t help but have some grievances though:

So i get that open world freedom was one of the biggest misses in H1, i absolutely love that i can go virtually anywhere between the walls of the outer map. I very much respect the art of rally racing and I was glad to see that this time around it is a feature in the game instead of a paid DLC.

Only…

It’s not really rallying is it? Okay so time for a bit of a rant:

So what i loved most about the H1 Rally DLC was the extra parts, namely the rally suspension and tyres.

…So where did they go? How can this whole off road experience be so central to the game’s archetype when you fail to provide the parts that made the off road experience in H1 so amazingly good in the first place? that these tiny little parts that could’ve made the cross country experience so much better are missing is severely and extremely dissapointing in my experience of H2. I CONSTANTLY feel like my car is bottoming out on these extremely bumpy cross country tracks, and now to discuss the events themselves:

Okay so let’s set the record straight, i am a very competitive guy, i have difficulty all the way to max, no ABS, TCS, Simulation, i’ve been shifting manual since forever and since FM3 also with clutch, i race cockpit only so i feel everything my car does and AI Is on unbeatable (still easy as hell though, c’mon turn 10 step your game up.)

so i guess you could say i’m a pretty serious driver, i finish pretty much every street race, circuit or sprint in first place without restarts 24/7.

That being said i have to restart cross country races in excess of 10 times before i dumb luck my way past the bash fest that are the H2 Drivatars (they really still drive as idiotic as before the days of drivatars.)

why does this happen? well i mentioned i drive cockpit only? SO WHY are you making me race blindly through bushes, vineyards and other nonsense that are higher than the line of sight i have in my car? Seriously, half of the time i just see NOTHING so i have to look at the white lines that go up from the checkpoints and steer myself using the map HOPING there’s not gonna be a ghost tree popping out of nowhere because i can’t see anything. >.<

seriously, these cross country races feel like a stupid attempt to say “hey look how cool our physics are, you can screw this whole farmer’s livelyhood in a single turn.” and oh the humanity how much farmers’ lives do we destroy with these races, it’s nothing but plowing through fields. It’s nothing like rally, a rally driver would actually be upset by destroying a farmer’s income!

and the actual layouts of the tracks, my god. The actual race line shown by the GPS just screws you over completely, it’s like i’m driving tracks made by the community in a track editor. You run the severe risk off tipping over or losing grip because of the most idiotic little bumps and grooves right in the middle of the GP S route. So i’m basically forced to not trust the GPS route that the Developers laid out for me themselves, i’ve seen myself getting flipped and tossed around so many times that i basically feel punished for trying to follow the racing line as good as i can. How would this be less of an issue? By just giving me my freaking rally suspension when you force me to do these events, my cars constantly feel like they’re bottoming out on these rough as nails tracks.

Not to mention the way the GPS is ACTIVELY steering you in the wrong direction sometimes, like the aerodrome cross country race where in the last segment it steers me to slow down and go left past a couple of big fuel canisters when i can just as well go full speed in a straight line past the right of said canisters. By the time i realize this i’m allready getting passed so i’m off to restart for the umpteenth time all because the GPS is misleading me.

Why? Are you encouraging me to actively look for shortcuts? I cannot possibly comprehend why you would make me intentionally distrust the racing line for any other reason. Cutting corners in certain ways is respectable when you make make me look for those, it is a street racing game after all. But actively making me look for complete segments of the race to cut off is taking things just a little too far. Especially when you realize that an unbreakable barrier could pop up just about ANYWHERE, so you run the gambit of not cutting off segments only to see AI Shortcut past you, or shortcut a segment too big and hit a wall to a complete stop. That or i just have to stay behind AI so i can follow then around.

The cross country races don’t make me feel like i’m racing drivers, it makes me feel like i’m racing the game and it’s poor design choices. Seriously no one over there could have checked that you can’t see anything from the cockpit in these races 60 percent of the time? isn’t these kind of things why you have playtesters?

i started off with it, and i will end with it:

Cross country races are a joke.

Now i’m going back to H2 to enjoy and marvel at all the aspects of it, too bad cross country racing isn’t one of those aspects.

/rant

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I also don’t like the cross country aspect of the game but feel I just have to rise to the challenge. But knowing I’m short because of the lack of tuning.
Loved the rally in H1 .

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It’s not really a challenge when the races themselves aren’t as much a challenge. :confused: the only thing challenging about the cross country races is how to get around the blatant logical fallacies in game design presented to you. The tuning doesn’t affect much when all you can do is raise your ride height (which is still downright minimal.) and soften your bump rebound and springs. Which works minimal bc the roads are so rough you NEED rally springs that are high enough so your car doesn’t bottom out 24/7.

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I fully agree with this post.

In every game I own there is something I don’t like. I just suck it up and get through it. Off-road racing is the part of Horizon 2 that fits this description. Other people like it, so why remove it? Let other people have their fun.

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Theres a thread discussing these events here: http://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst22800_Cross-Country-events---What-do-you-think-of-them.aspx

They’re good for getting xp chains, can easily get 10K+ xp in a single race, but an option which lets you choose what races you want would be good lol

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Big xp chains don’t make up for a concept that is downright poorly designed and lacking in common sense.

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I know but since we have to do them they’re not all bad, they wont suddenly remove events just cos people dont like them so just enjoy what you can. Not everyone shares the same opinion thankfully. The Shadow Edge puts it perfect. FH1 was criticized and now they put different events theres never a chance to please everyone. Same with GTA V, people complained about GTA IV’s driving so they made it easier for players and has the complaints stopped? Nah.

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Rally parts are not needed for a good cross country setup that does not bottom out and handles all that cross country events throw at the car.

Anyone who owns dlc download DJ Lime’s Jalpa in S1 and then tell me that rally parts are needed.

Whilst visibility may be poor in cockpit the gps route IS the best route. I don’t run cockpit but I do rely on the GPS route to tell me where the track heads next so I can position my car for the best entries.

With tuning I do not use max ride height. It is not needed.

I use slightly soft springs, about 1/4 ride height, high rebound and low bump. And the car does not bottom out (never in a way that unsettles the car) except when landing big jumps, even then the car does not get unsettled.

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After the first Forza Horizon, there were some calls for races that weren’t relegated to a driving surface. This is the result and, of course, there are complaints. Game developers can’t please everyone.

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I thought I would hate the cross country events, but I ended up enjoying them. I agree the cockpit view is quite hard in some of them.

Finding my own routes is very rewarding. I’ve gotten pretty good at slipping in between the trees, and it has paid off.

I guess I’m saying I can’t find any fault with OP’s points, I happen to agree with them. But it hasn’t stopped me from enjoying cross country events, which was a pleasant surprise. They’re a riot.

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  1. I’ve used cockpit less and less in FH1 & 2 due to issues like you’re describing, especially but not limited to off-road races.

  2. I agree that these aren’t rally races. They’re off-road races. Big difference. I hoped for rally. Off-road in Subaru’s, Mitsubishi’s and trucks will do for now though.

  3. 95% of cars can run off-road races well if tuned, and tuned correctly.

  4. That being said, Ralph stated that championship races for each vehicle group would be relative to that group. Off-road races aren’t relative to exotic hypercars. I feel your pain there.

My opinions. No one has to like it.

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I have been buying the last few cars I didn’t own recently and then running a single player championship in that car.

I had a few supercars and hypercars to buy. I tuned them to be allrounders and then entered the championships. I was disappointed at the lack of offroad events.

If you take a rally car through all 6 locations you get way more offroad events than if you do the same with hypercars. The main issue is the player has no control over the mix.

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My main criticism with the races is not knowing the route and not being able to quickly see where the route is going in many cases… A moment of hesitation can often cause a drop from 1st to 4th (or worse).

My way of handling these races now is to make sure I take 1st place in the other races before attempting the cross country races. That way I know what place I have to finish in the cross country race in order to still win the championship. More often than not I still can place 2nd - 4th and rarely 1st, but some races even after several attempts I end up in places much lower than 4th.

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My problem with CC races is the difficulty spike, on my settings doing a circuit or sprint, I can finish 1st all the time, CC is hit and miss. The cars handle real bad regardless of setup, maybe I am just a bad CC racer.

Some of the Championships force you to go CC in some ridiculous cars, doing CC in a Hyper is just wrong.

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I find cross country easier to win than other races.

I do not believe there is any change in difficulty.

I just think most people seem to be better on the tarmac than offroad, or they are overcomplicating the CC events. At their core they are no different.

Use full width of the track and think ahead ie make sure you know how you need to exit the next turn to ensure the best entry to the turn following that.

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I initially did not like cross country events for many of the reasons already articulated but am starting to enjoy doing them.

Some of the turning points for me;

  • doing the events in Rivals mode - no other cars to bash you around, you can spend more time working out where the route will go

  • doing the events in multiple classes in Rivals mode - 2 results here - starting with low PI D class cars again gives you lot of time to recon the route. Doing the route repeatedly as you climb through the car classes increases this familiarity - just like learning a new circuit track in FM. By the time I am doing B class I’m already recalling the more optimal lines that I found in the previous races.

  • slowing the frig down before tight corners and driving to maintain grip. I know SatNiteEduardo evangelises this and he is dead right. Maintaining momentum on loose surfaces is not quite the issue it is on tarmac - it’s changing the direction of the momentum. Take wide, wide lines so you are gradually changing direction - loose surfaces don’t cooperate with sudden changes very well and you are not confined to a ribbon of tarmac.

  • consider car choice / setup. RWD is not ideal for most classes in cross country - FWD can work very well - AWD will probably be the easiest for most. In general you may be better off with a car that tends to understeer on tarmac as this can help tame the oversteer you are more than likely to be fighting offroad.

I race in cockpit view, no assists, rarely tune or upgrade cars at this stage too (I normally reserve that for later stages of my time with these games). Can’t believe I am actually enjoying these races now.

My post is not meant to accuse anyone here of not being able to drive, just my findings and some points for anyone who may be struggling and is reading this thread looking for ways to deal with these events.

I also agree that they are somewhat inappropriate for super/hyper cars and the option to do them or not within a championship would help with the frustration that can come with these events.

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Well, I read your rant, OP, and while I feel bad for you (not liking a key aspect of a game you otherwise adore is no fun), I must disagree with almost everything you said.

CC and trail races make this game for me. I practically think of FH2 as a Dukes of Hazzard RPG.

Yeah, the occasional rut or bump will flip or snap-roll your car. What to do? Rewind, miss the bump, and remember it for next time. Learn the course, just like the paved ones. Use rewinds as a learning tool.

Contrary to popular belief, tuning is NOT needed to do well offroad: knowlege, a steady hand and good throttle control are where it’s at. Now, a skilled driver with a good tune can go ungodly fast. But is it necessary, mandatory? Absolutely not. I currently hold 36th spot in the “driving range” monthly challenge and 25th in “plains driving”, neither car is fine-tuned. Basic upgrades only.

As far as the A.I. goes, I find them far less aggressive offroad. Most drivatars don’t seem to maximize the track, use it, or spot shortcuts. Even on unbeatable they just sort of cruise along.

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Turn off GPS. Turn on rewind. Lower the drivatar difficulty. Learn the tracks. Profit.

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[quote=SatNiteEduardo;238468

Whilst visibility may be poor in cockpit the gps route IS the best route. I don’t run cockpit but I do rely on the GPS route to tell me where the track heads next so I can position my car for the best entries.[/quote]

Whichever way you will put it, the GPS route is NOT optimal, i stick to these lines like a bible most of the time and they are more detrimental than they are helpful. I cant honestly believe you, i’ve flipped and tossed around so much. I use GPS to position my entries too and they are just not optimal. It’s like having a rally co-driver telling you lies.

Telling me to rewind for following the racing line optimally is literally bonkers, rewind is for YOUR mistakes, not the game’s mistakes. Next to that i don’t even use rewind. It is downright the laziest mechanic i’ve ever seen in racing games and the only thing it does is promote bad driving in races where it’s not possible to use it like online. You have to learn to hold a solid line from start to finish, and rewind is what prevents casual racers from understanding this very important aspect of racing. Telling me to use rewind to me feels like telling me just stop racing lol.

So basically you’re telling me to stop playing the way i love playing the most? nope, not gonna happen. I learn the tracks by restarting them 10/20 times, this has nothing to do with difficulty, it has to do with the gps steering you on a danger path. And how exactly do i turn GPS off when i already can’t see anything in 75% of these races bc i race cockpit? What, do you want to get me killed or something?!

as for the lads saying it is possible to tune them right, but i think we can all agree that having a higher rally suspension would make these events miles better from the get go. Then you actually COULD take a hyper car off road solidly. After all, isn’t forza about freedom?

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Having a rally suspension would likely improve the aesthetics of my donk Monte Carlo on 24’s as well as significantly help the launch and acceleration of my 1180 hp A class power builds, but would probably make little to no difference on cross country events for me personally.