I’ve been driving Forza since Forza 4 and almost always drive with “Braking Line Only” as my setting. Eliminating that setting has been frustrating. There needs to be something between “Braking Line Only” and no help.
I’m fortunate in that I own a Porsche Boxster which I have been privileged to be able to drive on actual race tracks. I don’t have the kind of money or the talent to do so competitively but my speed was not restricted. Most of my track time was following a driver’s school. Each of the corners had three cones on them. The first cone was to the outside of the corner and indicated the start of the braking zone. The second cone was to the inside of the corner and marked the apex. The third cone marked where your car’s momentum should take the car and the point where you should be on the go fast pedal. Using these cones as a reference I have been able to put in some fairly decent times. They were a great help for an amateur like myself. I’ve seen these cones used during actual races by guys who obviously don’t need them. I sure do.
Implementing such a system in Forza would be a great intermediate step between those of us who have been using “Braking Line Only” and no help. Mostly it would eliminate those annoying arrows all over each corner. If cones were introduced in the game it would be nice if they were indestructible and unmovable. It could provide a step forward for other like myself who aren’t going to spend the time necessary to race with no help but find such frustration with bridging the gap. Best of all it is a real world solution.
Then again maybe I’m the only one who sees this as an issue.
They should take a hint from GT Sport, much better system that you actually learn something. No brake line but other things to help like cones and markers.
I don’t really get what the problem is. Firstly, there is no shortage of identifying features scattered around the various tracks. Whether it be actual marker boards, a patch of different coloured tarmac or the start of a curb. You just gotta use your imagination on that one. All you really need is a marker for your braking zone. once you have this down, and you begin to turn in, turn your eyes to the road ahead and literally look down the the optimal line through the corner, so essentially you are steering with your eyes and the car just follows. Using the braking line won’t help because it seems to be very much based on safety, you can’t push the limits if you are following those lines and braking when that thing tells you to. Using cones in the way you suggest won’t work because every car is different, and circumstances are different within races. You might get a fast exit from a previous corner, carrying an extra 10mph into the next…suddenly your tactically placed cones are going to mislead you. So when I start driving on a circuit I basically take a few practice laps, learn the car’s stopping distance and identify my braking zones there and then, but kinda loosely (like, I think "I wanna be braking somewhere near to that 200yds board). It does help that I know most of the circuits pretty well so I know where the racing line is at for the most part, but if I do come upon a configuration of a track I’m not familiar with, or it’s a night race and I’m having trouble seeing where I am on the track, I turn on the track limits (options, HUD, track limits: on, set it to appear as a ribbon) and this gives you a lovely bright blue line on either side indicating the track limits and it really helps to draw your eye to the optimal racing line as it kinda eliminates distractions and allows you to easily see important features. For example, it massively highlights undulations or bumps the might otherwise have been invisible, but you’re in little doubt when you see a bright blue ribbon with a lump in it. So really, what you’re suggesting may make you a little less slow, but it really won’t make you fast. Putting in the hours and learning the tracks and cars intimately is really the only way to be fast. Try it on a really difficult circuit like Bathurst or Brands. If you can master a track like that it breeds confidence like no other.
I think GT Sport adjusts where the cones are depending on what car you are in but I’m not exactly sure. It comes down to laziness really. Myself included. I just don’t want to take the time to learn the tracks really well with no brake line. I use no other assists but switching to no line would take the longest of any of them to master for me at least. I wish I never turned it on. I don’t think the original GT games even had such a thing and I managed. You are right though some of the fastest people I know race hardcore. I try to use the brake line as a guide only. It is not the best line that it shows you that is for sure on most of tracks.
The problem with cones is that, for whatever reason, people in multiplayer love knocking everything over. Even the weird spots that you would think would be hard to hit driving in a normal manor. What would be nice to do is if the brake markers were flaps stuck to the ground: a car goes over it, squishes the sign downward, sign pops back upward after car is gone.
From what I’ve read about most of the faster players it’s that they keep the brake line on. I personally use the environment as someone above suggested.
I could imagine a point marker system like this as a toggle option in the Track Limits feature. As the developers mentioned in last week’s #ForzaMonthly livestream, they are implementing these features as part of a system to help improve player skill in handling tracks. They request feedback via the Support site, and this seems like an idea you should submit there:
I mostly use the braking line because as a Dad I just don’t have the time to learn all the tracks with sufficient detail to know when to brake even when in multi-player boards or markers get wiped out.
However, I HATE the braking line. My eyes tend to focus on it too much instead of looking farther down the road. Another problem is depending on the car or the track, the braking line and speed indicator with the color is wrong.
I know I’d be way faster without the braking line and with optional cones to learn faster to know the braking points on the tracks without the cones.
I’d love it if the developers could give us something that is embedded with the track limit indicators.
Actually the braking/suggested race line is terrible in some tracks like Indianapolis, Abu Dhabi… In Indy GP is wrong at nearly all turns.
So the “race achievements” like perfect turns, etc. are completely useless, if you are taking the corners faster when you avoid to follow the suggested line.
Currently I’m really enjoying the rivals events where race line is forced to off, so you have to find the braking points and quickest lines and you can easily improve lap after lap. The problem in Forza is that you are currently jumping over multiple cars with different braking points so often, so the braking line is really a great help to have quick feeling and lap really fast on any car. Otherwise you have to spend 10 minutes practicing each car/category/track before you are competitive, so that results in a most slower progression.
Completely agree. Spending the 10 minutes or so to learn the car and track to then match my times with the braking line is hard with a busy life. If I do master the track and car without the braking line I find I am faster because as I said I stop looking at the line and feel the car around the curve and am therefore faster. But I just don’t have that much time to practice. I just want to jump in and enjoy the game every once and awhile. For example I might have 15 minutes while dinner is cooking for my kids.
That really is the main issue. I love being able to choose from over 700 cars, but I have had the game for over a year, I have completed every single player event on the “longest” race length setting and AI set to either pro or unbeatable (had to reduce it for the Forza GP event…just cannot find a tune that will even get me close…) so naturally I have every car. I haven’t even driven half of them yet. However I do have a small selection of cars that I will go back to regularly, jump straight in and it’s almost like jumping into my own little MX-5. I think if you can find a few cars where this is possible, and driving the car comes naturally, it really makes learning a track a whole lot easier. I have been tweaking my B class tune on my Honda S2000 for a few weeks, and it’s so rewarding. I have actually been using Bathurst as my test track, which is really uniquely difficult. I can now take it to any track and be confident that the car is going to help me and is predictable and quick. As I said before, the track limits setting is a massive help if you’re struggling. heaps more effective than the braking line. There is also little clues as to the correct lines and apexes in the way they have drawn the track limits in. If you see they have included a little bit of extra space over a curb or astro turf, it’s probably because you need to take that extra little bit to achieve the optimal line.
I’ve found the same thing. By picking the right car and tune I can win on Unbeatable but it takes awhile to achieve it. I do find the track limits have helped my times as well with giving me a better idea regarding the right lines. If they combined braking hints with the track limits I’d love it to help me then pick marks on the track to use as braking hints instead.
I’ always quite liked the idea of just a strip across the whole track showing roughly where to break. Basically the start of the red zone if you’re on breaking line only. But not dynamic, so it won’t change to yellow when you don’t need to break anymore. Not that that would be relevant, because you’d be way past the strip, and wouldn’t be able to see it anymore anyway. It wouldn’t need to be exact, but just a rough reference point. Sounds like the cone idea TBH. Cone idea would be great if it was on your screen only, in much the same way the breaking line on is currently. Otherwise, like someone pointed out above, there would be no cones left by lap 2.
When I first started playing, on 6, I threw myself into the deep end and turned off all assists (except sim steering) and just did weekly spec leagues. Started to learn the breaking points on every track, for that week’s car, and really enjoyed it. But as work began to take over I just couldn’t commit the time to do it anymore. So had to stick breaking line only on, just so I had a rough idea when people around me were likely to slam on the breaks in from on me. I wish there was a halfway house where the line doesn’t dictate most of the corner to me, yet at the same time I’m not gonna be taking out people by breaking too late, or too early, just because I don’t know the car and track intimately.
Interesting discussion on the Braking Line. I personally have only tried the line a handful of times just to see what it was like. The weird thing though is I don’t use any sort of distinct braking landmarks or indicators while lapping or racing. I just go by instinct of how fast I’m going, the type of car I am in, and how fast I’m approaching a turn. Granted this theory isn’t foolproof and I will occasionally overshoot a braking zone, but the next lap I correct and once I’m dialed in it’s all good. I mostly use the trail braking technique, unless it seems to be upsetting the car.
Now that I think about it, I still have never turned on the All New Track Limits Indicators yet. Wow time flies, those aren’t even really new anymore, being almost 5 months old now.
I’m sure your instincts are actually using a combination of visual and audio hints. I have been playing with the running without assists as well and yes on many points on the track I’m running instinctively and quite fast. To be honest the curves that kill me without braking line are at the end of long fast sections.
The challenge with a long fast section like the straight on the Circuit de Barcelona is that my speed at the end of the straight varies based on how well I did on the last curve onto the straight. I’m not consistent enough to come onto the straight with the same speed and therefore on lap to lap my braking point changes with the faster cars.
To really run fast lap times like in the bounty events or multiplayer, my instincts would be better if we had a reference point that wouldn’t be wiped out by the cars.
So many people seem to forget the track limit is even there, or don’t realize how useful it is. It can be an absolute lifesaver. Like when you are in an S or R class hopper and one of the 13745,0000000 configurations of VIR comes up at night and it’s a full grid of chaos with backmarkers bringing all the furnishings onto the track, your headlights have been smashed out and you have no idea where the track goes…it just gives you a fighting chance.
Thus the value of the first two cones. Generally a curve at the end of a straight is a late braking point and a late apex. Obviously the first cone has to reflect the class and capabilities of the car. The cone could be stationary during a race but would need to move farther from the corner if the cars are faster and closer to the corner for slower classes. If turn 10 wants to keep the arrows then just show the first yellow and /or red arrow and get rid of the rest. Oh and I really hate the long line of arrows for on the rev limiter in top gear.