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I’m just being funny here, but what does the meaning “unbeatable” mean to you? Should we add a level of difficulty between Pro and Unbeatable called Sometimes Beatable??
Vehicle build and avoiding contact makes “Unbeatable” easy even in Offroad and Buggies.
Why are you moving this???
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Yep, Drivatars on higher difficulties are definitely broken, Here’s some examples
- AI has access to car upgrades that are not available to you, mostly engine swaps.
- They can have higher brake horsepower than what their Performance Index will let them
- They’re not slowed down by driving through props.
- This depends, as sometimes they actually WILL crash, but 99% of the time they’re unaffected by wet/snowy roads.
- That ONE drivatar that absolutely SMOKES everyone else. They tear up the track at impossible speeds and often create an extremely long distance between you & them. Everyone else is easy to pass.
I wish they’d make them drive smarter, not cheat.
ad 1. AI does not have access to upgrades not available for players. With proper tunes you can always have much better acceleration and/or max speed then drivatars.
ad 2. That’s probable. For sure they got lower PI then shown on lower difficulties because they are really really weak but I’m not sure about the higher PIs.
ad 3. They are slowed down only when you are close enough. But the difficulty has nothing to it.
ad 4. They are affected which can be easily noticed especially in S2 Street Races.
ad 5. I assure you, that I’m a not a drivatar.
Unbeatable in this game is way too easy. I don’t remember the Trial or any other Championship which I didn’t finish way ahead of AI.
So there are only two problems. Drivatars are not affected by objects if they are some distance ahead or behind you. And on unbeatable you start from the last position which may be frustrating within some settings.
You can’t have a higher speed than drivatars. A drivatar that is in any regular car can do 300mph either to catch up with you, or to zoom off into the distance. You can still win, because they might crash.
Unbeatable, Sim steering, manual steering, no-rewinds. Car, bone stock.
So I take it you don’t have any issue taking that Cadillac and that race, with same lineup, and posting how you beat that 3:16.446 (Peel P50) - Time matter as of course one could ram, but this is about going faster than Drivatars as beating their top times.
I hate being that guy but you need more practice and or a better car. The AI on the highest difficulty is usually broken in all racing/sports games. If you think FH4 unbeatable AI is bad, you’ve never played FIFA, where the highest difficulty is basically all AI opponents being boosted to 99 in every stat. I don’t know if it’s lazy programming or limitations of the current consoles.
TL;DR: The unbeatable AI is anything but unbeatable. Learn the track, get a better car/tune any unbeatable is barely a challenge.
It’s hard to program realistic Ai, most programmers can’t do it. Although improving the Ai for Forza Horizon 5 should probably be one of the top priorities.
There is sort of huge issue what comes into debating about FH4 difficulty, which is, difficulty isn’t consistent.
In Street Scene (which is close enough to in certain sense to Road Racing) certain routes comes difficult to win. That is not because of factors mentioned above but torque boos Drivatars get. This used to be problem on three routes, but, I can’t say for sure, but for my experience one may has got silent update.
Variables in Street is that D-class is messed up by Peel vehicles up to about D-390 IIRC. Reason is simple, tuned Drivatar Peel is motorbike weight power ratio vs. car. There are plain simple unwinnable scenarios there. There are few other things in upper classes revolving around certain Drivatar cars having overwhelming performance. It’s a matter if luck which lineup player gets.
Then some player cars might be on wrong PI, which influence Drivatar lineup, Porsche 959 got it’s tyres updated during last year in silent patch, but there are others.
Misconseptions about how to use car features. Cars in Track Toys category have racing parts which allow lot’s of tuning options even in their stock parts configuration. Players are supposed to use that advantage. In other words, some of PI is about potential performance, which applies fully only if car is properly tuned.
Dirt Racing is qite different from Street / Road. Cross Country is it’s own thing.
For my tests, there where couple of routes where rubber band can break if player is too fast, but I need someone else to confirm that.
It’s important to mention class, tune or stock, scenario, RWD, AWD, FWD, when making posts about Drivatataras, times, yet it rare that players do that.
When I see this thread popping up, I always ask myself what would be if the AI drivers would be able to create threads and complain about us. 
What would they say?
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…. so I was taking those corners with my other Drivatar pals like flying and leaving that silly human behind for good. But then in one of the 90 degrees it went great at first but, I kid you now, it suddenly felt like time stopped for a moment and then everything started going backwards, like rewinding old VHS tape, and then forwards again, but this time that human rammed me into side and my changes for winning were done for good! I was executing everything perfectly within my programming and then this! How is this fair? Nobody deserves to lose like this!
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Yeah, or ‘These sorry human drivers always rage quit on trial events when they’re losing and we don’t get the points.’ 
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Oh Trials can be nightmare too. I mean we are doing our best to show of how those humans what proper racing is and then they do totally unfair things like cutting the flags on bends! And not just touching them like we can do, but sometimes they barely touch flags. It’s not only unfair taking flag from outside their car side barely touching flag, but some use these totally unfair line, where they come fast in and make it their car tail clipping the flag, so they keep on optimal power band all the time. It’s ridiculous that we need to endure that every week.
Perhaps that could be managed somehow, but then the team, oh my what disaster that can be. Sure you know the type, always driving Aston Martin DB4, really impressive acceleration, but pull wheelies, all the time, then they hit a tree! How we are supposed to win over humans with a team like this! What the heck are these Drivatars thinking, that this is FM7? How can we win when we get sabotaged by other Drivatars? Hey, you moron, when you are in Red team, please try not to be fastest on every corner! Without these morons every Trials would be a cake walk.
claw i seen those 90 degree turns., i seen sparks due to it.
It is far beyond frustrating. What I did notice is that the vast majority of psycho and super-powered drivatars didn’t happen until I started playing the multiplayer and joined a club. It is definitely certain races. The ones with rain and a lot of corners are the ones that I simply can’t win anymore. I used to play on Expert and now I have to play on Highly Skilled for the seasonal and I can’t even win the races with rain and corners anymore because apparently the club drivatars have super glue traction on corners and their cars are perfectly tuned and they don’t have to follow the laws of physics. I gave up on this Lamborghini seasonal. Best I did after many tries was 3rd place. I did place first on the one that wasn’t in town but there is simply no chance for me in town. They are harder than the Unbeatable drivatars by a long shot.
I think maybe adding the option to disable friends and clubs from being drivatars would help. Most of them are far better than I am at racing so I simply don’t stand a chance against them. It isn’t just frustrating. It isn’t fun and it makes me not want to play anymore. One of the reasons I like the Eliminator. No drivatars!!
Drivatars driving abilities reflecting abilities of players on your friends list shouldn’t have influence to their competitive ability in FH4. However, I recall there was a discussion and conclusion was that friend list had influence to what cars Drivatars use.
I read your post bit before season change and did comparison. For me Expert Drivatars were far Easier than Unbeatable.
Times for Drivatar taking 2nd place
-------------------------- Unbeatable ---- Expert—
Edinburgh Stockbridge: - 2:13.426 - - - - 2:17.188
The Monument Wynds: - 2:22.318 - - - - 2:23.911
North Coast Rush: ____-2:53:299 - - - - 2:57.187
I used Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder stock on both runs.
There are three things I could think of.
- Your friend list somehow affects your Drivatar lineup in way that gives Drivatars some Drivatar “meta cars”.
- Your (possible) tune is something that causes this. I don’t really know, I’m speculating here: It’s possible at least in lower classes to mess up Drivatar by bad tune even on Unbeatable. I don’t tune much but I keep returning to my Wold and Raven (band, check them out they are good) tribute van and upgrade this or that. I noticed this in upper D-class but also in lower C-class, Drivatar rubber band AI appears to compensate to much of it’s weaknesses, but only little to it’s strengths.
- I don’t know for sure, but if I’m right I think also opposite could happen, Drivatars compensating all for player car (tune) strengths but not so much for it’s weaknesses, creating situation where Drivatars would appear to be OP relative to player on most difficulty levels.
I know for sure (and have data to back it up) that unwinnable scenarios can happen even when racing stock, though that happens rarely.
I would like to know what car you used, (estimated) time difference to leaders and if you used a tune?
Because discussion doesn’t go anywhere like this. Better AI or “Rubber Band” would make better experience for everyone, but there’s no solid data, times, cars used, setups, to make a case.
That wouldn’t make any difference anyway, you could have a drivatar line-up consisting of the worst drivers on earth and the same things would still happen, all that drivatars are digital representations of you and your friends etc is just nonsense.
I don’t know about that…
Is it just coincidence that all of my friend’s drivatars in my FH2 and FH3 games started acting this way at the same time? Heck of a coincidence if you ask me.
For the record: All of the friends/drivatars in question are brand new for me. I just started being social when Eliminator came out. Before that, I had the same XBL friends since 2009 with the exception of my stepson, who I added 3 years ago.
Who knows. Coincidence or not, it still sucks!
ETA: I should also mention that I had been playing FH4 for over a year before I had any issues.
Ok here’s how Drivatars work:
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They will use their favorite car, always. If they lack one, then a placeholder. Know all those Audi TTs in Anything Goes? Maybe you have friends that don’t play the game very much…
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They reproduce player behavior, not speed. All Drivatars can become “super” Drivatar depending on the race. But not everyone is aggressive and not everyone blocks you.
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Visual mods and designs are present if you activate them, but performance upgrades will be calculated by the game for a certain PI range. Car performance is consistent with car ability. Expect certain cars to be rockets on the straights and struggle around corners, and vice-versa.
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CVT transmission gives a huge speed advantage to Drivatars, as seen with the Can-Am Maverick.
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Difficulty setting will change their speed and the effectivity of the catch up feature in the leading ones. Apparently, answering “no” to the game’s prompt to increase difficulty will make the game spawn the “super” Drivatars in an attempt to “humble” you. Which is completely bizarre on Playground’s part, since who cares about which difficulty I want to play at, and who cares about me winning too much in single player mode? LOL
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This is mere speculation but Drivatars who represent drivers Forza doesn’t have much data on seem to have a bigger chance of performing aggressively and unrealistically.
Honestly, it’s a bad AI system and I hope Turn 10 gives up on it in the next Forza Motorsport, which would probably force Playground to follow suit as well. T10 is rewriting the AI but I’m not sure if they’re actually doing away with Drivatars.
It’s total speculation, do you know how to program Ai? A lot of programmers do not know how to program realistic Ai. Neural networks are the future of Ai, and hardly anyone can program them. This team had a problem programming a manufacturer menu option, do you think they can program realistic Ai?