Only posts I’ve noted haven’t been helpful to anyone. Post count isn’t relevant really. Lots read and never post.
Your comments appreciated. An opinion I can’t share based on my experiences. Just like some delighted with FH5 and those not.
Prejudging is not helpful. I saw data and commented in couple instances.
Lmk time for group hug, I’ll try to work it in. 
1000 Cr wheelspin “reward” is such a bad “joke” that can’t be even call a joke, more like a piss on every fan face. I spent 28 WS today from which I got 13x 1000 Cr, 1x RX-7, 6x Horns and 8x Outfits. TBH when they announced FH5 I was so hyped for it I couldn’t wait for release day, When the release came true I was one of the happiest gamers ever (so were you, at least some of you). New game totally got me even if there was plenty of bugs, glitches etc., but I didn’t mind them. I knew they will be fixed some day. But day after day, week after week and so on this game fully transformed to a worse nightmare. As OP said in title, they are so hard to listen to player feedback. In my opinion they don’t care about us at all. And they prove us right in our statements, by every Facebook post they make on their group with all “thanks” for us, in their in-game messages which are full of BS that they appreciate our support. Yet by now they only improvement I noticed is that my friends/convoy/freeroam players aren’t disappearing no more. I only noticed that as a good fix. Everything else is still f*cked up as it was, disappearing textures when you are approx. 80-100m above the ground, still not removed glitched/modded results in any kind of leaderboards (they said it will be done on this season start), added 2s freeze when about to join the freeroam after leaving garage/home/race etc. (in my case it started somewhere around xmas/new year time frame), flickering reflections when applying sport brakes in any car, and so on and on. We all see this and even more. Honestly they are going the best way to annihilate the game.
4 Likes
This is FH5 in a nutshell: Expectations VS Reality of Client + Business Analyst+Developer=Coding - YouTube
4 Likes
FH5 is one step forward three steps back.
Almost all, of the long time players, features requested, and implemented on FH4 online, have been removed in FH5. An insult to all those who spent months on forums, delivering feedback, was for nothing. This is the last time I allow PG studio to rip me off, won’t buy another Forza game in the future. Already quit fh5 online, as there is nothing cool about it after u consumed story mode, with all of the listed features removed.
8 Likes
I am waiting for the DLC anouncement, dont care for much else at the mo
The unofficially DLC announcement is titled “Runway”. This expansion includes over 3 new face masks. Preorders will also receive 1000 bonus free credits.
4 Likes
Customers in restaurant: Asking for some ketchup.
Staff: Pour alot to customers face.
Customers: What the
Staff: “people asking cant make up their minds”
People asking for more smoke when it is drifting…Not everywhere like engine blow up…
Did they test play it?
’
I think the situation is more like They are not listen to player feedback “carefully” + They didnt carefully tested.
3 Likes
Sometimes u need playerfeedback before final touches are made.
Maybe it was fine for the devs but for users in race its more a problem. Or some bug who knows…
Exactly. Either they didn’t test or they fundamentally lack common sense.
The AI difficulty like Aqua and Rayne point out as well, is very intermittent. At times it has absurd nitrous type boosts or the ability to brake like it’s thrown a ship anchor out of the boot, or grip through muddy / wet corners / deep water like it’s dry asphalt. Or it battles for the lead like its life depends on it but when you get past it suddenly gives up and submits. Or the way the AI blocks and brake checks you so its buddies can get a big lead. It’s all utterly stupid and whoever is responsible for signing off on it is not doing their job right (this is me putting it as kindly as I can, to not fall foul of forum rules saying what I really think).
The ketchup analogy is a good one, hopefully the person who doesn’t understand the complaints will think about it and realise their mistake.
6 Likes
It feel like they didnt test the game on 1st person view too.
Smoke and brightness
they spent lots of time on making cockpit detail but didnt play it
1 Like
I’ll never get 100% on any Playlist if they keep forcing the eliminator. I don’t care for battle Royale type games and now they are forcing it as a completion requirement.
2 Likes
Exactly what this thread needed: Another Moderator…
I feel a ton of personal pain reading through this thread, because I agree with many of the issues, and even some of the overall sentiment. I’ve played every Forza game other than Apex. I’ve been around long enough on this forum to know who DamnMe is, and I was here when WSD became a moderator, when Max was still a super-helpful forum member (pre-moderator status). I say that because all of these guys have been where you are - asking for changes to a game they know and love, and have spent countless personal hours in - solo, with their friends, with community members they’ve just met, etc.
Quick Sidebar: If anyone thinks any other member of this forum is being prickly, you have the ability to sort it out via DMs - a time-honored practice used by the likes of many here throughout both iterations of this forum (there have been a couple - were you here when we transitioned?). If you think a moderator is being abusive, there are other moderators to chat with / DM, right? Please reach out.
Back to the feedback: I’d love for this thread to focus on the point-by-point fixes you’d love to see, and how / why you’d personally prioritize each fix over other fixes. And then in a couple days, if everyone has aligned, I say we send it to Max’s DMs, so he can send it on to those that can help. If, for whatever reason, you can’t all align on the list and priority, you’ll maybe have gotten a taste of what design teams go through. This is reality. PG has reasons to revamp the game (Some great reasons are in this thread already! I agree!), and they don’t necessarily have to explain it to you in detail (EVERYONE AGREES WE’D APPRECIATE IF / WHEN THEY DO).
There are ways to constructively provide feedback, and if you think this thread is ONLY helping, maybe give it another read.
Don’t make me call my other moderator friends. 
5 Likes
Why bother? There are literally hundreds of threads in this forum alone discussing each major/minor bug/issue in this game. During which time the only changes we’ve seen have been to address exploits. So much that was broken remains broken.
Are you a developer? If not then I suggest not commenting on something you’re not familiar with. This also isn’t 1995 where companies take a waterfall approach to development. For over a decade most companies take an agile approach, tackling the highest priority items and making incremental changes. This game launched over 3 months ago on 5th Nov 2021. Since then we’ve since next to no updates outside of afk exploits and wheel spins. This is not agile. This is not listening to feedback. This is literally doing nothing but accepting FH5 is in a completed state and all focus is on the first expansion. Not good… and sadly there’s nothing we can do about it for now…
Disagree. Communication is key. They need to inform the community more around what they are working on and when they will deliver. They have been doing this which is good. What’s not so good is what fixes they are focusing on. I think I speak for everyone when I say we could care less about 99% of the things they have addressed to date and would much rather them focus on the hundreds of other major issues and bugs that have been clearly outlined to date.
Why would you say something like that? Are you trying to set the tone or are you trying to impress someone? Weird…
4 Likes
Duekacer, I’m in. I’ll compose my issue with the AI in the seasonal races and get it posted.
Beautiful! Looking forward to reading it. Thanks!
My thoughts on the AI issues
Seasonal race AI
In FH4 I was competing in the upper 10 to 20 percentage group of most all of the leaderboards. And in some, even above the 10 percentage point. I could compete against the highly skilled AI and even the higher AI in some races. I could not compete against the unbeatable AI, which I can live with. I can understand where only the top 1% of gamers should probably be competitive enough to defeat the unbeatable AI.
With FH5, the seasonal AI Highly skilled AI is unbeatable at my level of play. That is even when paired against the exact car and even when the AI car is at a lower PI. In an FH5 race against the highly skilled AI on a straight, the AI will just open up the gap and leave me behind. And even if I can improve position in corners any slight bobble and they are past me again.
In addition to the seasonal issues. There is a huge disparity between AI in general throughout the game. Where in FH4 I could run competitive against highly skilled and expert AI I find it often a challenge in FH5 to run competitive against average AI. And if I have to step down to novice for a particularly challenging track the step down is more like going against unskilled beginner AI.
I truly believe the developers need to take a look at the overall market level of players abilities adjust the AI levels. Perhaps novice is at the proper level. Average, highly skilled, expert, and pro need to be adjusted downward to smooth out the play level.
1 Like
In the spirit of constructive feedback:
Having recorded 50+ WS and SWS, I feel pretty confident that the overall payout of the wheelspins (WS) and superwheelspins (SWS) is only down by about 33% on average. But the variance is higher now because a lot of the Epic/Rare slots got switched out for Common slots, and it’s not possible for Common rewards to be much lower than they were before.
I can see how setting the wheelspin outputs is somewhat a matter of taste, but my opinion is that the change would have gone over much better if they had reduced the wheelspin output by 33% by just making the previous lowest-reward and second-lowest-reward more likely to occur and make some of the better rewards less likely to occur, so overall there was lower variance in the spin rewards. The last bit is, again, a bit of a personal preference, but having the rewards vary from 1000K in credits to reward cars that are worth 10M+ credits is going to be difficult for a less engaged player to reason over, because the super rare car isn’t going to happen for a lot of people, but the 1K and 2K rewards will happen to a lot of people, and I think there is also a good amount of psychological research that shows people remember their worst losses more than their best rewards. So I do think that higher minimum rewards would make the players (in general) feel better, even if the overall average reward is unchanged.
I can also see why PGG decided to revamp the car mastery trees, so that it is not possible to arbitrage any autoshow cars by buying them for list price at the autoshow and then unlocking a WS and/or SWS that on average is worth more than the list price of the car.
HOWEVER, I have a bit of a beef in that this should have been completely foreseeable – there was even an arbitrage like this in FH4 where you could buy one of the Porsches for 150K credits and there was a 300K credit reward in the mastery tree. To a large degree, I feel that these arbitrage opportunities should have been foreseen and dealt with before launch. At the very least, they could have been dealt with when the Willy’s mastery tree was changed, because it’s the same issue, just to different degrees. The math is straightforward and PGG holds all the odds in their hands.
Having spent a lot of time allotting my skill points where I felt they were the most effective – sometimes on WS or SWS, sometimes on XP boosts or skill boosts (for cars I knew I would drive a lot), but generally not for FP rewards above the first row, and not convoy boosts (since I don’t use that mode) and generally not free roam or skill song boosts, since I don’t use a huge variety of cars in free roam – having spent a lot of time figuring this out, it has been a bit discouraging and time consuming to go back through all the perk trees to figure out how to use my refunded points. The overall trees as they are now are fine, but no one likes it when you move the cheese. PGG moved a lot of cheese here.
I think it’s also just kind of confusing from a game play perspective, because it seemed to me that the payout for skill points was very good and that it must have been an intentional choice by PGG to make skill points valuable, because hitting other cars or fixed objects ends a skill chain, and this would be one way (albeit a little roundabout) to incentivize clean driving by rewarding clean driving. Now I’m left scratching my head a little bit, given how much they increased the skill point cost of WS and SWS – playing in free roam has a lower payout now, so if I want credits for one reason or another, it seems like the rewards scheme has shifted back more towards the FH4 rewards where long races with as-fast-as-possible cars with XP boosts is really the best way to earn credits. With a fully upgraded X-class BMW X5 FE, for instance, you can get 50K+ XP (nearly two WS by itself), a lot of skill points depending on your skill level, and a 100K+ credits on top of that for a 11-12-minute lap of the Goliath. If you spend that same amount of time drifting in free roam, you maybe get, what, 5 ultimate skill chains worth 10 points each? The max XP you get from an ultimate skill chain is 4,000, so you get 20,000 XP from the ultimate skill chains over that 10 minutes. You have 50 skill points to spend, but the player who did a lap of Goliath maybe got 10-20 skill points to spend. You got no direct credit reward, because free roam doesn’t directly pay credits, and now with a WS in a skill tree being roughly, say 15 skill points on average in order to unlock (starting from the lowest left and going to the 5-point row on the rightmost column), you get roughly 4 WS when you take into account some of the XP you unlocked and the 20K XP from the skill chains, plus the XP that you get from using the skill points (200 XP per point spent).
So in roughly the same amount of time after the skill points are cashed in, you have:
- Maximal Goliath strategy: about 3 WS + 100K credits
- Maximal free roam strategy: about 4 WS.
Given that a WS now is about 60K in credits, on average, the Goliath player gets about 280K in credits, and the free roam player gets about 240K in credits. However, this is still a more tenuous strategy now for the free roam player, because the free roam player needs to own more cars that have unlocked wheelspins and there are a lot fewer of those after the patch. I would also argue that, short of cheesed blueprints in EventsLab, it’s much harder to get 5 max skill chains in 11-12 minutes than it is to do an X-class Goliath race. Especially since you can completely lose a skill chain worth 8-10 skill points, but there is no such risk in losing credits or XP in the Goliath race.
This change also makes me less likely to do Open or Tour events, because:
- Matchmaking takes a lot of time.
- You can bank skill chains while you are waiting, but those are worth less now.
- Loading times between multiplayer events is much, much longer than the loading time between single player races on an XSX.
- When you finish an Open or Tour race, you do not get any credit boost for AI difficulty – even though to my way of thinking, playing against human players in an Open race should give a credit boost at least as high as playing against Unbeatable drivatars, because we know that humans can be the Unbeatable drivatars. It stands to reason that the payout for beating humans should be higher than the payout for beating unbeatable drivatars.
- To be competitive in Open races especially (not as much for Tour races), you need to use cars that are fastest, not necessarily cars that have the best perks. This also reduces your payout relative to a single player game where I only lose 5-10% of a credit boost to lower the drivatar difficulty, but gain 30-45% XP boost from driving a car with the right XP bonuses.
So whereas it is relatively feasible to earn ~1M in an hour-long session of single-player, X-class Goliath endurance racing, playing Open or Tour you are going to make a lot less over that time – maybe 30K in credits per race for 12 races, if you don’t have trouble with matchmaking, so 360K-400K in a very good case scenario. Most of that was all true before the patch, but if I was able to bank 10-20 skill points between championships, I might unlock a SWS in addition to the race winnings to make it at least somewhat close – maybe 600-650K over an hour. And you also just spend a lot of time waiting around in loading screens, which I think we can all agree is less fun than interacting with the game.
In summary:
- I think most users would prefer lower variance wheelspin payouts to higher variance wheelspin payouts.
- The new perk trees are sensible, but changing them this far into the game’s life was really disruptive for some users, and arguably should have been addressed before release. And messaging this rebalancing of rewards as fixing an exploit doesn’t really sit that well with me when “we know this is disruptive, but we didn’t mean for skill points to be quite that valuable and we don’t want players to feel compelled to “grind” skill chains” or something to that effect seems more polite and accurate.
- The new rewards structure appears to me to incentivize users spending more time “grinding”* long races in single player as opposed to arguably more fun multi-player experiences that really distinguish Horizon from Motorsport.
- I actually really enjoy long single player races, so I wouldn’t really considering it “grinding” but the community tends to label it that way.
10 Likes
How long did you spend on this ? Lost interest after the first couple of chapters. You should have just stuck with the summary…
3 Likes
I’d like to add
To give an even better picture to those who are following this discussion of how little PG devs cares about what players have to say on the forum.
Weeks before the FH5 release had been created a wishlist for FH5 online racing exclusively. Turned out to be entirely disregarded at FH5 release day by devs. A few months later, still, nothing has changed or improved on that compartment despited the complaints there and now also here.
Have a look at yourself here https://forums.forza.net/turn10_postst167510p2_Forza-Horizon-5-MULTIPLAYER-Racing-Wishlist.aspx?=
They don’t care about what the community asks, likes or dislikes. All they do is bugs and glitches fixes while they keep adding/changing stuff that nobody asked for in here.
9 Likes
I think both FH4 and FH5 map are flat and boring for driving
The “Graphics upgrade” is more like HD tree, plants copy and paste everywhere and hd skybox.
but there are lack for interesting stuff like a City with lots of taller buildings,
A complete Highway system, (loop with overpass)
Mulit-story car park or building
oil station, dealership
fully-long mountain road
sea side driving road
container terminal
etc
I rather they lower model detail and have a bigger city.
Right now all I saw is tree poping 10m in front of me.
Compare to older horizon yes it is bigger
But compare to other games the map is flat and boring and I feel like driving in a far cry 6 maps.
Car chase on a almost flat map without a path is boring.
Need for speed hot pursuit has a way better car chase than horizon “battleroyle” or “playground game”
6 Likes