A Letter to Turn10 - Forza Motorsport features lists & ideas

Well after having tried various racing sims on the console lately I’m putting my hopes on the new release of Forza Motorsport.

I tried Project Cars 2, Assetto Corsa Competizione, Grid, Need for speed, etc. but they either did not have good enough graphics (based on today’s standards/capabilities) or they were too arcade like or were to complicated to setup and get running competitively. I just read the reviews on Project Cars 3 and I am not going to purchase it. Seems they completely abandoned their fan base and went more arcade like which the market is already flooded with on the console.

I guess that’s why I keep coming back to Forza 7. Seems to have a good balance between racing simulator and immersion/graphics.

But I would like to see the following characteristics in the next release:

A racing rules engine that enforces good racing/clean racing. Perhaps it can be configured for how clean of a race you want. Like someone posted “great graphics for everyone crashing into turn one” is not that enjoyable. Getting bumped out of a race because participants do not understand the concept of having the racing line is frustrating. Or players that use your car as a break into a corner is annoying.

The ability to setup a public/multiplayer race with AI drivers would be nice.

The ability to require participants to use a wheel only i.e. Wheel only multiplayer session. Controller only session. Wheel and Controller allowed session.

The ability of a moderator to review certain incidents to determine if there was a violation.

A Class rating that can be filtered/restricted based on Date of vehicle i.e. Class A with vehicles only from the 60s through 70s. Or 2010 through 2020. etc.

More realistic physics and force feedback using a wheel.

There are so many Arcade type racing sims on the console already. I believe many of us are yearning for a good quality simulator on the console that works well with a wheel. I simply wants to come home after a hard day and have a quick but good “clean” and “fair” race. I don’t feel like spending a bunch of money on a pc to get that experience. I also feel like on a console there is less likely hood that someone is using a cheat.

The Forza franchise already has graphics nailed down quite well. Some minor improvements there would be nice but If they could improve the physics/force feedback (for a more realistic driving experience), a much better racing rules engine and more configurability for online private/public sessions they will have it nailed.

Please don’t include monthly DLC, To have to pay monthly just to have new cars sucks. IMO, the only DLC there should be is big yearly ones containing multiple new cars and tracks.

Completely agree.

I’d like to add that its not just the total devotion to graphics and car roster count, its a basic shift in philosophy. So much is missing :-

Passion:

FM 1-4 had a clear devotion to Motorsport and racing. Forza was Xbox’s and MS’s answer to GT and was a system seller. There was a clear passion to make the most fun, most detailed and most complete racing game. Now it seems that has been abandoned to attract the tweener/CoD crowd who are much more interested in quick online melees, badge counts, gimmicks.

Accuracy:

Forza was never meant to be a sim but it was and always had simcade elements. Now with every series those are minimized. There is no way you can model 600/700 cars even anywhere close to properly. Its much better to have a smaller, more accurate, and more updated car roster. But even with a huge car list, T10 could’ve done so much better - tune the parameters for different classes of cars to more accurately reflect their handling. Earlier games used to have different setups for the pro and base versions of cars, that is gone.

Homologation means one of the main fun things in Forza which was to take a car and build it to whatever you want, then race in custom private lobbies with a huge variety of cars, is gone.

And why are engine sounds so wrong? Not only do they sound anemic, they are not even correct. So many things like the right sounds for wind, tyre, turbo etc are missing. None of this is due to graphics. Its just different priorities and features being cut - because again, the target market doesn’t care.

Presentation:

Earlier games had so much more immersive presentation with narration, the Top Gear voiceovers etc. All gone. Race start and end got worse from 6 to 7. Replays are worse.

Multiplayer:

FM7 launch and till recently, MP was full of rammers and cheaters. Clearly Forza is meant for a wider player base than sims, but even GTS rewards and enforces clean driving. You can have fun online with all kinds of skill levels without someone spoiling it. Having no penalties and no track limits is ridiculous in a ‘motorsport’ title. This isn’t FH.

And of course, no more private lobbies, global leaderboards, or customization - so much gone that was in FM1-4. The result is a chaotic online experience where you are lucky to find clean races.

Graphics:

The sole focus of the series since FM4. Even here, they want to make a game locked at 60fps. And 4K for One X. This led to massive downgrades in graphics for everyone. Even on the One X texture detail and effects were worse. And nothing looked better on PC because its pretty certain the game doesn’t do anything beyond what the One X can do.

Ultimately I think Forza/T10 has a massive identity crisis.

Its not clear who this game is being marketed towards. If FH is the more arcadey/free roam/get achievements version, why isn’t FM more accurate/motorsport like. It is in fact becoming the opposite.

They no longer ever talk about any of the things that actually are about racing/motorsport - like the physics model, racing mechanics, feel, realism, tracks or even fun. Its always just ‘look at shiny graphics, xxxxx car count, buy it for One X, Series X etc’.

It seems the only real message is ‘new Xbox, new Forza’. And the lack of communication and intent is a big issue.

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The next Forza Motorsport game is in development, and I wanted to input my ideas for how I think the game should work.

  1. “Racing Career” mode. In FM7, we have the Forza drivers cup. The problem with this is that you will never actually see a open wheel racing series be combined with a drift challenge in real life. What they should do for Forza Motorsport, is create an interactive racing career. Like Schumacher9 said in his wishlist, starting off as a small racer with a cheap sports car and going to small track days, then working your way up to faster and more highly regarded racing disciplines. To add to this, there should be choice to what sort of racing you want to chase. For instance your career could follow karting up until an “F1” type thing, then decide to go and start rally racing.

  2. Fake Teams. Back in 2014, Grid made this a thing with a bunch of fake teams to fill their grids. This makes the experience better, because you get to know the teams well and how well they perform. If the next Forza game had 8 fake teams with 2 drivers each, it could create a sense of consistency between races. Perhaps between divisions of racing, there are different teams. Teams that currently exist would work just as well, but when creating someone to be an enemy, it’s best to keep them fictional(Devon Butler).

  3. Get Rid of Drivatars. This one is something that should definitely stay in Horizon, but in Motorsport, should go. If instead of Drivatars, you had 15 other drivers, each with their own racing style, it would become much more interesting in a lot of cases, as Drivatars’ variety in driving style doesn’t play a part in races when speed is determined more by difficulty and rubber banding, which leads me on to my next point.

  4. Get Rid of Rubber Banding. I know this one has been said a lot, but not being able to catch up to first place is ridiculous. Balancing out the AI with the players capability makes more sense.

  5. Car buying and upgrading. As you get to higher levels in your motorsport career, you start racing for a team, meaning you can’t really upgrade your car. There should be a discipline called Tuner Cars where you can buy and build your own custom made cars, but the majority of upgrading comes from free play. I suggest that i’m free play, you can buy and upgrade cars with the money you earn from racing. This would mean less emphasis on “buy car, upgrade car, race car” while also keeping in touch with the part of Forza in general, which is performance upgrades.

  6. Disciplines. These are the types of races I can think of that would work in Forza Motorsport. Tuner Racing would focus on specific categories in which you need to buy a car and upgrade it to the right level, but in a better way than homologation. Truck racing would be for racing with bigger trucks to create a fun and different racing genre. Supercars/hypercard would be for the fast but road legal cars that the forza franchise is based on. These initial disciplines would be the first step in the motorsport career. After that, you start branching off. Rally Racing, Open Wheel Racing, Touring Cars, Endurance Racing(5 min races on average), and super fast non road legal track cars would be the next leg of this career. When you complete a season(5 races) in all of these final disciplines, you get the Forza drivers cup. These numbers are placeholders, and would probably be adjusted to be more realistic for the game.

  7. Handling, Tire wear, and Pit Strategies. For handling, make the cars just feel easy to learn how to drive, hard to master. Tire wear and put strategies can be turned on and off, and would be a bigger part of longer races. In these cases, you could go into the pits to refuel, fix damage and change tires. When entering the pits, you can choose from Soft, Medium, Hard, Intermediates, and Wet tires. This would make it so that if you’re doing longer maybe 20 lap races, you can make it more interesting.

  8. Cars. Some people want the devs to remove SUVs from the game, but I think they should stay because they’re still fun to mess around with in free play. I do think because of this “career” thing, all cars should be unlocked to buy right away.

  9. Rewards. For getting the Forza Drivers cup, you should get 50 million credits, as is something that mimicked real life winnings. Getting rid of loot boxes is a must. I don’t know if not needing the money to buy cars for the future will make the progression feel worse, or if it’ll be fine.

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Please Turn10, I am begging you to allow us attend training session and qualification before each race in career mode. This is absolutely mandatory for a proper motorsport game. Starting each race from the middle or end of the grid and overtake all the AI drivers during a single race in order to win, is completely unrealistic and ruins the feeling of true motorsport. Make the game deserving its name - make it true motorsport. PLEASE ADD TRAINING AND QUALIFYING SESSIONS - the most important feature Forza Motorsport MUST HAVE. Thank you.

I would be absolutely happy with just one extremely important feature - training session and qualification before each race in career mode. This is absolutely mandatory for a proper motorsport game. Starting each race from the middle or end of the grid and overtake all the AI drivers during a single race in order to win is completely unrealistic and ruins the feeling of true motorsport. Make the game deserving its name - make it true motorsport. PLEASE ADD TRAINING AND QUALIFYING SESSIONS - the most important feature Forza Motorsport MUST HAVE. Thank you.

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Mandatory pit stops (called quick stops in previous versions) and realistic tire wear and fuel consumption for players AND the AI. In Forza 7 the AI never pit for the entire endurance race on the Nurburgring, the cars provided to the player have to pit once to complete the race. Many of the competitors cars are the same as the players car.

Reliability statistic based on upgrades performed on the car. I don’t know how it would affect PI but having random failures or a higher likelihood of performance loss due to demanding high power from an engine for extended periods of time would add a real calculation to the upgrade path. Oil coolers, inter coolers, skid plates, engine cooling, boost PSI settings, etc can all contribute to a cars longevity on the track. For instance an NA built car has a much lower likelihood of throwing a rod through the block due to excessive pressure like a turbocharged engine would. Forza allows us to achieve 25 pounds of boost from racing turbos which is ALOT considering that most engines without turbos from the manufacturer are not reinforced in any way to handle the extra demand.

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I would like to see them add something to do with all the “money” I have. I have all the cars in FM7, and 122,000,000 odd credits, plus like 300 discount car/mod card deals. There’s nothing left to do with all these credits. I don’t wanna pay real money (which I know is what MS would like), but give us a “Forzaconomy” so we can get something with all our winnings. Photo and Video services, for instance, race driving services, etc. You paint well, I drive well, you want me to drive your painted car so somebody else that photographs or makes movies well could make you a highlight reel of your car. All could be negotiated through some sort of storefront like we used to have, then you would get more mixing of different types of players, I think.

Not enough people are saying what I think you’re trying to say, and it’s really worrying me. S-T-O-R-E-F-R-O-N-T! Turn 10 PLEASE please please just give us this back, your community is so dead without it!!! We can’t find cool paints without going to the end of the earth sitting in every single car, we can’t find photos of said paints, and tunes for cars that said paints might be on because for some awful reason someone has continued to make this decision to not have a storefront since Forza 5. This is the FUNDAMENTAL pillar in having a community is a centralized place to share creativity and talent! Let us have our own economy and share our hard work please and just bring it back for goodness sake. Painting is so unrewarding anymore because no one can find them and it’s truly exhausting to be a creator and to play these games anymore without it. Phew I need to chill because this gets me worked up every single time. I just miss following pages and having everyone’s work organizable on their own page.

Everyone else’s suggestions for racing and structure and realism sounds great and I hope for that too. Let’s keep telling them guys, they need to listen to us.

P.s. give us tire sponsor options for all cars and tire compounds “sport” and above. GT cars look like an absolute joke in these games without having tire sponsors. If you can’t get the rights then just make options for it to say “Forza Motorsport” in different fonts.

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[Mod Edit - thread merged - MM]

I have to argue that the next Forza Motorsport should keep its large car list, because this is the foundation of what made Forza… well, Forza. Even if we have a racing game tailored towards improved realism and an enhanced motorsports racing experience, take note that in the end, no matter how realistic an experience this is geared towards, we should always remember to have fun. Forza was meant to be a more realistic racing game competing against the likes of Gran Turismo, where they also pride themselves in being able to simulate any kind of car in a realistic fashion, no matter how hardcore or strange the cars are. Any car can be raced, for as long as you have the guts to really race it.

After all, besides focusing on the aspect of Motorsport, we should always remember that the spirit of Forza involves the powerful love of the almighty automobile itself, be it the hardcore race cars, hypercars, supercars, track-day cars, sports cars, compact cars, SUV’s, pick-up trucks/off-roaders, rally cars, all the way to the weird, unusual and wacky ones. To say that they don’t belong in Motorsport is rather absurd and irrelevant, because at the end of the day, every car featured in the series can be someone’s favorite car. They definitely belong in Motorsport, not just Horizon.

I’m also open to seeing new types of cars as well, given the rumors of new IMSA race cars, more rally/off-road cars (from the rumors of off-road racing) and so much more in terms of the race car department, even including the road cars (hypercars, supercars, sports cars, luxury cars, SUV’s, off-roaders, compact cars, classics, micro cars, etc.) and unusual ones. I also hope to see the return of Super GT/JGTC, DTM, and SCCA in Forza as well, and also hope to see both Porsche and RUF together so that we can have a sense of the spirit of brand rivalry (providing that as an example).

If this next Forza would be on a “game as a service model”, I hope they do something similar to GT Sport and deliver an abundant amount of content every month/update for free, because that’s how Gran Turismo does it with GT Sport, and will probably save players a lot of money on DLC. Forza should apparently stop with the same DLC formula where in the end, this would end up being too pricey and would eventually split the user base anyhow, and worse even, the DLC will be gone every four years (take the recent “end of life” situation of Horizon 3 as an example). They should go to varying degrees of the volume of their content, like say for example, 10 cars and one track for the first month, then 12 and another track for the next, and 15 the one with new layouts on existing tracks after. That way, no player gets left behind.

And that’s why, even on the Xbox One era, I feel that there are still quite a number of cars missing, and I hope they also bring back a significant portion of Xbox 360-era cars, especially hundreds of cars with many different variants that have been in the series during that time, as well as more iconic models and race cars. In time, they brought some back, but I still feel like they need to keep on delivering on classic content just as much as they plan out new ones.

Another is that we don’t want another Motorsport 5 where despite the increase of graphic quality, the game felt and looked quite rushed as it was extremely light on content, which disappointed a lot of players, and even has the lowest ratings in the Forza series so far. It may also be attributed that Turn Ten had to assist Playground in developing the first Forza Horizon, and that they were so keen on making Motorsport 5 an Xbox One launch title.

That’s why with Turn Ten taking the extra time off to develop this next Forza, and opting to not be a launch title, I really hope they surprise us with their biggest, baddest and best Forza yet (despite the lack of the “8” in the title).

I believe that Turn Ten are really taking all the time they need to polish this game and build an abundant amount of content, as well as polishing the quality of older assets. Based on the cars we’ve seen on the Xbox One era, we are looking at more than 1,000+ possible cars, and plus maybe more with what Turn Ten would want to surprise us with. I don’t think they’ll have to rebuild a lot of the assets from scratch as they were built from the foundation of the Forza-tech engine, but they would need some improvement on the older, or existing assets to accommodate the newly-updated graphics. Having a car list cut down would be absolutely unreasonable and completely horrific, even if all the assets are polished and up-to-date.

Meanwhile, there are remarks from some people such as:

“ThEsE SUV’s/tRuCkS/oFf-RoAdErs/rAlLy cArS/HoT WhEeLs/FaSt & FuRiOuS/oDd-BaLlS, etc. bElOnG iN HoRiZoN, nOt MoToRsPoRt, sO gEt rId oF tHeM, nObOdY nEeDs aUtOmOtIvE dIvErSiTy, wE wAnT oNlY nIcHe cArS, aNd qUaLiTy oVeR qUaNtItY!”

In the end, these people are haters of the next Forza project (and perhaps the whole series) and are wishing for it to become light on content and as low in quality as Motorsport 5, and perhaps as mediocre as the Project CARS series whose car lists are basically low on count and not very diverse.

Apparently I’m a HATER because I would like Motorsport …. To evolve into something more focused and grown up …. To differentiate itself from Horizon …. To focus on Racing (I.e gameplay) rather than car collecting and graphics …. To focus on the quality of the car models, physics, sounds, etc … To have 500 cars at twice the detail rather than 1000 cars without … To add features like qualifying, pit stops and tire strategy rather than costumes or Hot wheels …. but mostly just because I have an opinion at differs from yours.

In my personal opinion, while staying true to my standpoint on the cars themselves that the large car lists should stay, whilst adding a mix of old and new, I really think they can aim for a vastly improved experience WITHOUT having to sacrifice any of them.

To focus more on Motorsport is to improve on the gameplay and mechanics, not get rid of the cars. Like I said before, any car can be raced, no matter how serious or strange, for as long as you have the guts to really race it. And plus, the new and improved physics can also open up new possibilities to race cars with complex physics systems (even if they may consist of bizarre, odd-ball cars). I do love me some good race cars and serious cars, but I do love the variety of cars that make Forza stand out from other games.

But I do agree that we need some new features, improved gameplay mechanics and some other things, like:

  1. Animated pit stops

  2. Practice and qualifying in Free Play, Multiplayer and Career modes (can be optional)

  3. Forza race regulations, also in Free Play, Multiplayer and Career modes (can be optional, and depending on the severity, elimination can be possible)

  4. “Motorsport Blueprint” (the Motorsport equivalent of “Horizon Blueprint” which allows you to create custom championships in Free Play and upload them online, but I feel if they’ll do custom championships, they should take note of how Assetto Corsa does it, because I find their custom championship mode to be very fun indeed.)

  5. The new and improved drag racing modes as seen on the “experimental drag” feature in Motorsport 7

  6. Skill-based matchmaking and custom public lobbies, to separate the purists from the morons (even more so if Forza race regulations, with practice and qualifying are there too)

  7. Ability to set up one-make races (could also ideal for these weird and wacky cars, so that they can feel like they can really be raced)

  8. Ability to toggle “balance of performance (homologation)” based on a car’s division on or off (shouldn’t always be forced on)

  9. Off-road/Rally racing

  10. Driver and sportsmanship ratings similar to Gran Turismo (for the foundation of skill-based matchmaking)

  11. Return of fun game modes (e.g. car soccer)

  12. Players will have to watch a mandatory short video about driver’s etiquette before playing online (just like in GT Sport)

  13. Tire compounds similar to Gran Turismo (comfort, sport and racing tires, with three kinds of compounds - soft, medium and hard), for tire strategy

  14. Ability to adjust between rich and lean fuel for fuel management

All these fun and motorsport-inspired gameplay features and mechanics can be achieved WITHOUT letting go of any cars whatsoever.

The reality is Turn10 have finite amount of resources … budget, people, data, hardware, time….

We can’t have it all, there must be compromise and management of how those resources are allocated. If you go for 1000+ cars and A grade visuals like Horizon does, it’ll mean cars are basically skins with same underlying suspension, charactistics, sounds, upgrades, etc.

At opposite end of spectrum would be Assetto Corsa Competizione … lots of detail and quality, but can only do so with 2 car divisions (GT3 and GT4). Physics so rich that can only run at 30FPS on current consoles.

I think new Motorsport should sit somewhere in middle, 500ish cars but all have a more unique character, handling, sounds and driving experience …

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I agree with mostly everything you say. I like the expansion idea. Separating fm and Horizon.

I do not totally agree with the homologation idea. I like that you don’t have people with a 700hp datsun in the sport compact division. Speed needs to be limited and HP too.

I think, we need lobbies that you are not allowed to use assists like TCS, ABS, STM.

You should get an extra CR reward for running your own tune. Anyone can get a free tune from raceboy and win all the races.

I think that the weight reduction should be on a sliding scale, not just 3 choices.

I think, that you should have the one car and you pick the paint scheme, example, Nascar chevy, there is one car up for offer and you pick the team paint. Don’t have 10 nascar chevy’s

Leaderboards should be for your own tune. Not allow people to go get raceboy tune and be #1.

I would like to have AI in private lobbies again.

Co-op career racing would be nice.

Wide body Body kits for every car, not just Nissan.

More rear wing options, as there are tons on the market today.

Love and owned all the forza motorsport game and its time to move ahead of the compertition.

I would like to see more car specs when buying a car

At the moment we only see basic stats
Speed, handling, braking and so on

I’ld like to see more stats like
cc rating 1600 - 3000
cylinders 4 - 6 - 8
Even engine codes Ej20 - B18c R
wheel size 16" - 22" and so on.
This will move the game away from being arcade like.

How about adding a hamologated plus mode. So we can race with better tyres.
Or even the ability to up the AI difficulty 110%

How about a dyno, not so the user can tune but the computer AI can tune and optimize. Because we all no cars come out
with a power rating at the flywheel.

True racecar lap times, i.e aussie V8 supercars do lap time around bathurst 2:06 and top out around 290kpm down conrod streight
where as the car in the game cant do under 2:12 and top out around 260 kph

Other than that keep the good work up and i cant wait for forza 8

Motorsport needs career mode the most.

While I agree with a lot of the ideas here such as the improved physics, sounds and realism, as well as the improved game modes and mechanics to enhance on the Motorsport experience, I’ll make one thing clear:

I will re-iterate that Turn Ten should NOT let go of any car models whatsoever. We can achieve what we want for this next Forza without cutting down on the car list, and plus, it would make the game much more fun with more variety of cars to drive with, because the spirit of Forza is not just about track racing or automotive freedom on open roads, it’s about the powerful love of the almighty automobile itself.

Giving up one over the other is somewhat selfish to many long-time Forza fans as they will be shunned by not only (a): a possible lack of content like in Motorsport 5, and (b): fans wondering why or how these cars were gone, especially if it were their favorite car that ended up not getting featured, because at the end of the day, every car has their own set of fans.

We’ve all been there with the Xbox One era, and now that we have so many cars, we can’t help but hope that all the older cars return besides newer ones coming in, even if we have a substantial amount now. If we went ahead in cutting down the car roster, we would end up playing something like Motorsport 5 again, or worse even, the entire Project CARS series, which seems to be just as dull and bland as Motorsport 5 itself.

Which is why the massive car list should stay, as the cars have always been an important part of us Forza fans. Even if the Motorsport games are meant to be simulation-like, we must remember that this is emulating the style of Gran Turismo as they too, had a diverse variety of cars and seem to portray them all in a realistic fashion whilst having efforts to improve on having a proper motorsport experience. Another gameplay aspect I would also like to add is the possibility of one-make races.

Any car can be raced to such an extent, no matter how seriously focused or strangely bizarre they are. I sure love me some serious cars, but why not keep the variety that has made Forza… well, Forza? Besides focusing on the aspect of Motorsport, we should also focus on simulation, as even these bizarre, non-focused cars deserve to be properly simulated in a realistic fashion. Another is that the newly redesigned physics opens up new possibilities for cars with complex physics systems (most of which are odd-ball cars).

Enough with the “qUaLiTy oVeR qUaNtiTy” and “wE dOn’T nEeD tHeSe cArS iN MoToRsPoRt, lEaVe tHeM iN HoRiZoN” excuses. First of all, all the cars in Motorsport 7 and Horizon 4 are of the same graphic quality and look almost future-proof, and second of which, I explained exactly my point as to why leaving these cars in Horizon and not welcoming them in Motorsport is completely irrelevant.

If Turn Ten have a reason to cut specific cars, this can only be through licensing as that can be their problem. But either way, besides most of the suggestions here which can improve on the overall quality of the game and its motorsport-focused aspects, I’m really looking forward to this next Forza having the largest car and track roster ever.

There’s a sizable number of people who want to “relive the good old days” of FM4.

To them I say: good luck with that, especially when the newest Xbox consoles aren’t as popular as the 360 and the sim market is more varied than it was in 2011… FM4’s competition that year was GT5 and NFS Shift, which were worse games, and the PC sim market was heavily based on outdated games kept afloat by modding… Nothing like the current scene, when GT7 gets a head start into next gen, and FM fails to have an impact on PC even though it’s more casual than Assetto Corsa/AMS/rFactor 2.

Not to mention that, in 2011, Forza Horizon didn’t exist, and Forza Horizon due to being easier has syphoned A LOT of players from Forza Motorsport. One of the reasons why FM7 didn’t sell as much as Microsoft and T10 hoped was that people would rather stay in FH3 than move on. Gran Turismo on the PS5 side has no internal competition and thus has the undivided attention of its player base.

No need to repeat …. But I would like to hear what others think.

I don’t think it’s realistic to assume Turn 10 have the resources to provide 1000+cars all with improved psychics, car models, sounds, customization, graphics, features, etc. Horizon can (and should) go for the big car list because it doesn’t require same the amount of detail for its more arcade and mass marketed offering. Btw I have nothing against Horizon, I play both but for different reasons, the diversity and freedom aspect of Forza thrives there (and $$$), but MOTORSPORT is an opportunity for the Forza Franchise to focus on its “racing simulator” aspect.

For Example, where do you stand on something like the NISSAN SAFARI. An example of car from FM7 that I would definitely cut. Think about the work that would need to go into each car multiplied by number of cars… it’s just too much, there needs to be a compromise. Under the general theme of this thread, each car in FM would may involve;

  • Carefully selecting model and its place within established divisions (Safari stops here imo)
  • Finding a real world example and gaining permission scan.
  • Negotiations, Agreements, Licensing and fees.
  • Travel and Expenses to scan in high detail.
  • Sound Recording of vehicle on track or dyno (Measure whp?) or high quality samples.
  • Research and re-creation of Basic vehicle Data e.g. corner weights, power (claimed), chassis rigidity, etc.
  • Research and re-creation of vehicles suspension Geometry e.g Live axle, Strut, A-Arm, sway bar, etc.
  • Research and re-creation of drivetrain mechanicals, eg. Layout, efficiency, Hybrid, torque vectoring, etc
  • Research and re-creation of Aerodynamics, eg. Drag, Downforce, Lift, Active Aero, etc.
  • Research and build details for animated pit stops, driving position, gear shift, etc…
  • Research and build details for upgrades such as weight reduction, replica parts, forza parts, etc…
  • Re-creation of official liveries, etc (e.g One Chevy NASCAR with multiple liveries instead of duplicate cars)
  • Research and refinement vs actual performance data (Clue; exclude cars that have never been on race track!).
  • Fine tuning of handling and settings reflect real vehicle character and behavior.
  • Balancing upgrades and performance within classes and divisions.
  • 100’s hours of play testing and further fine tuning and balancing.

Do you think all that work can realistically happen for 1200 cars (1789 in Forza to date!) or rather 500 cars. Expanding to maybe 600-700 though DLC after launch. There must be compromise, question is what fans would rather compromise on… the size of the car list (quantity), or the amount of detail and features (quality)?

GT7/Sony is surely the main competitor Turn10/Xbox is gunning for …. “the real driving simulator”. If they produce a product too similar to Horizon (lots of cars with less detail) they will only cannibalise their own revenue. I’m thinking they will be trying position FM to be slightly more “sim” than GT …. That means doings physics, force feedback, tyre models, suspension models, pit stops, qualifying, etc, better …. i don’t expect it to be as focused as Assetto Corsa (few cars at very high detail) but i do think Microsoft want FM to do better on the PC which has much higher % of wheel users.

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