A Letter to Turn10 - Forza Motorsport features lists & ideas


This is a “Letter to Turn 10” to be posted to the link below given via Forza Discord, as directed by Forza Monthly (March 8th, 2019) with Dan Greenwald calling for suggestions for the Next Motorsport;
https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000166434. I’m interested in what the forum thinks, and thank you in advance for your support (likes) and positive comments…

Looking back at over decade of playing Forza on Xbox, and considering (as many have already) “Am I better off investing my time and money in PlayStation for the next generation”. For last few years I’ve been disappointed as Forza Motorsport seems to be less focused on Motorsport and Racing, and more on popular culture and a diverse collection of cars. From a business perspective, it’s reasonable for turn10 to target what they believe will result in the biggest market ($$), but not when you consider Playground is doing the same but doing it much better.

Maybe I’m just getting too old for the demographic, and Turn10 are willing to sacrifice the traditional player base in exchange for new players, and believe that market is big enough to support both titles. In my opinion, the Motorsport franchise has missed an opportunity to become a more serious Motorsport title as a point of differentiation from Horizon, and to respond to increased competition from GT Sport, Project Cars, Assetto, Etc.

Horizon = Just Good Fun / Arcade / New & Causal Players / Mass Market / Low per person spend.
Motorsport = Serious but rewarding / Sim / Existing Players / Niche Market / High per person spend.

The following is my list of suggestions for the next Motorsport. My main goal in sharing this list is to a) gather support for more “Motorsport” in Motorsport, and b) attempt to open communication, hoping for an indication where Turn10 see the Motorsport franchise is heading. So Here goes;

1. The definitive; FORZA MOTORSPORT ; On the new console, the new title can be simply FORZA MOTORSPORT. A final special hardcopy release, premium pricing and removal of unnecessary content (see point 18 & 19) to make room and budget for new features. Continuously expanded with content improvements and paid DLC (see point 2 & 3).

2. Motorsport DLC ; Paid expansions featuring 8 new cars (1 New Division) and 1 new track from a current Motorsport series. IMSA, V8 Supercars, Formula 1, Indy car, BTCC, DTM, Super GT, World Time attack, Autocross, Rallycross, NHRA drag racing, Formula Drift …. There are so many championships in which Turn 10 could enter a promotional partnership. Bundle with relevant content updates (features not in game at launch) such as Flags, Pit stop aminations, Tyre compounds, Race Engineer, Aero Parts, etc. The FM6 NASCAR expansion with Miami speedway and proximity arrow update was great and something similar would be most welcome for FM7.

3. Car packs DLC ; In addition to expansions, Monthly Car Packs provide regular content and income to support the franchise. Smaller packs of 5 cars with more detail and features, but no more SUV’s, Hot wheels, 4x4’s, limos, etc, leave that to Horizon. Here the cars should meet 1 of 3 criteria, A) Race cars that fit into an existing division (not Forza Specials), B) Road cars that you’ll reasonably expect on a track day or amateur event, C) Newly released performance cars including latest hypercars, muscle cars, sports cars, etc.

4. Zero to Hero Career; Start in a “reasonably priced car”, progress through local track days, Regional club trophy, National touring cars and eventually complete for international world championships (e.g Formula 1). Minimum difficulty and prize money should increase each tier encouraging players to improve. Much tighter economy that will give some meaning and consequence to purchase and career decisions, only after a few seasons of a successful Pro Racing career should you afford to have a 50 Supercar garage like Lewis Hamilton. Rental cars for multiplayer pay same as owned cars and can have tunes applied.

5. Sponsorship System ; Sponsorship system that grows as you progress, rewarding strong results, clean driving and loyalty to a manufacturer (reduces for poor results, damage, switching teams). Unlockable rewards via this feature including credit bonuses, purchase discounts, unique decals & liveries, and special parts (see point 13). FM6 manufacturer loyalty system was much more satisfying than FM7 collection tiers, nobody wants the game to force the player to buy a bunch of cars they’re not interested in.

6. Custom Championships ; Let us choose, the discipline, No. of races, Circuits, No of laps, Qualifying (see point 11), Strategy (see point 10), Select AI cars, Rules and Restrictions (override homologation). Championship should be based on cumulative points system. Horizon 3 did this well with Blueprints.

7. Expand on League Racing ; Currently the public hoppers are a mess, but leagues are generally better due to its level system and I welcome the new Race regulations. In addition, the Driver Level System needs some sort of “sportsmanship” component that add weight to clean racing. Group all players according to Level, minimum difficulty and limited assists at higher levels… and please Ghost lapped cars. GT Sport does this well.

8. Licences ; Brief instructional videos and practical test on racing technique & etiquette such as; racing lines, braking zones, planning overtakes, passing backmarkers, reasonable defending, regulations and penalties. Again GT Sport does this well.

9. Online Adjudication ; current vote to kick system doesn’t work. A system where a player can nominate another player to be kicked much like voting for a track. Reason for nomination, No collisions, No of dirty laps, and sportsmanship rating (see point 7) should be displayed on voting side menu. If more than 50% of lobby is in favour player is kicked and notification and reply send to the race marshal program automatically. In-game rewards for active race marshal participants.

10. Optional Strategy for Long Races ; Animated Pit stops, Tyre wear & strategy (Hard, Soft, Wet), Dynamic Fuel consumption, Race engineer via Radio, Qualifying (see point 12), Mechanical issues (see point 13), Sector splits & lap Delta (time not distance). F1 2018 does this well.

11. AI Performance ; Difficulty at the moment is equivalent to just giving the AI more Horsepower. I think Forza should model the AI cars using data (Racing lines, braking points, Lap time, etc) from FRC participants, use this as the reference lap for “Pro” difficulty. Then add or reduce Ballast weight to AI cars reducing or increasing their PI score e.g Unbeatable +5 PI, Pro +0 PI, expert -10PI, etc. AI in grid will vary another 0-5 Points from maximum PI set by difficulty, eg. M.Rossi will be -0 additional PI. Using Ballast weight will proportionally increase/decrease speed, braking, and cornering and result in more realistic experience than current system.

12. Qualifying and Testing ; Any serious Motorsport title must include qualifying. Further, a leading Motorsport title must have the option complete a race weekend (in career). An option to complete “free practice” to compare your sector times and fine tune your car & strategy (see point 10) before the race. Player can adjust difficulty if required before optional to qualifying “shoot out”, one flying lap that determines your starting position on the grid. Traditional AI such as M.Rossi near the top to give that sense of rivalry that the Drivatar system doesn’t quite capture (see point 11).

13. Realistic Upgrades & Engineering; Not a fan of the current Homologation system as it restricts tuning which is big part of why many play Forza. Homologate racing series like GT3, LMP, NASCAR, etc. but leave track day / road car stuff reasonably open within the class system. There needs to be more realistic compromises when upgrading, perhaps displayed as a reliability factor from 1 to 10. Reward balanced tuning and development similar to real world Motorsport Engineers. Extremes should compromise durability and drive-ability. E.g A 900hp time attack tune will eat tyres, fuel and risk engine failure when entered into a 10+ lap race. Ridiculous things like a V8 AWD willies jeep has no place in serious Motorsport title, put it in Horizon.

14. R&D Special Parts; One-use Special Parts (Forza Edition Parts?) that doesn’t increase PI (e.g. FE Exhaust with +2hp perk) for HARD earnt achievements (eg. complete 200 laps for Porsche) for players to be slightly more competitive with their favourite car. Current Forza Edition cars with silly wings and CR bonus are don’t feel special and make for a disappointing reward. Let us build our own “special” cars. Like an RPG title, R&D parts will increase end game incentive to keep playing long after career is finished and may also add a new dimension to the auction house.

15. Adjustable Race Parts ; New upgrades such as race TSC, ABS, Aero, Swaybars and Brake Bias that unlock the ability to adjust during race. e.g. TCS level 0-10 adjusted via D-Pad. Steering ratio, angle and linearity adjustment in tuning menu would be great also. Track adjustment added to Horizon 4 is excellent even if it is just cosmetic, please bring to Motorsport ASAP.

16. Race Car Preparation ; Weight Reduction and Chassis Menu in more detail and has corresponding visual upgrade in workshop environment. Removing back seats and road accessories (ariels, indicators, badges, etc), and fitting race components such as Roll cage, Lexan windows, cooling ducts, Mirrors, side or rear exit Exhausts, Race seats, Steering wheels, Gauges, GT6 did this well with pre-sets available for certain road cars.

17. Wind Tunnel; Aero Menu in more detail set a wind tunnel environment complete with big fans, toggle smoke lines, toggle wind speed, and a read out of data such as; Drag, Downforce, Lift, and front/rear balance. New real world aero parts (APR, Voltex, Etc) such as Wings, Splitters, Flat floors, Fenders, Diffusers, Canards, Vents. Need for Speed did the visual side well.

18. Delete Unrealistic Cars ; SUV’s, 4x4’s, Vans, Trucks, Limos, etc are waste of space, They belong in Horizon not Motorsport. Add cars though DLC (See point 2 & 3) like Mines R34, Grp A Sierra Cosworth, HKS Evo Time Attack, Ferrari F2004 F1, Aston Martin Valkyrie, AMG Project One, etc. In General, LESS QUANTITY AND MORE QUALITY. 400 cars with twice the features is better than 800 cars with half that.

19. Real World Tracks; Delete unpopular ribbons from base game (Dubai, Rio, Top Gear) and replace with Layouts associated with Real World Motorsport through Paid DLC (see point 2). Suggestions; Tsukuba (Time Attack), Imola (GT), Adelaide (V8SC), Circuit Gilles Villeneuve (F1), Pikes Peak (Hill climb), Zanderzort (DTM), etc. Priority given to tracks with Historic configurations and those raced in multiple motorsport series supported by the game. E.g Adelaide street circuit would support V8 supercar, Group A, 90’s F1, GT cars and even trophy trucks with some ramps…

20. Dial up the Grip; For some reason Forza tyre model has become very “slidey” since FM4, FFB and other changes have been great but please dial up grip levels across the board for more realistic handling. Particularly noticeable in FM7 with homologation forced “street” and “sport” tyres, they just feel like driving on ice compared to my experience with modern tyres.

21. Selectable and Paintable Race Gear ; Sorry but GT Sports Helmet and Suit system is just miles better than the gimmick we got in FM7. Will provide an attractive new feature for the existing paint community. Leave the costumes and skinny jeans to Horizon.

To summarise, as a Veteran Forza player, I would love to see Forza Motorsport to return as the No.1 MOTORSPORT title for console, and I believe Turn10 have the potential and resources to achieve that. However, If players are expected to hold out for possibly another 2 years, Turn 10 need to decide which direction they are taking and start communicating that ASAP. Turn10 has already lost the goodwill of many existing players (those already jumped to GT Sport), getting them to stay will require a defined commitment that their loyalty will be rewarded.

Motorsport should not be trying to compete with Horizon, Motorsport needs to return to being Xbox’s answer to Grand Tourismo. After all, that was the reason I purchased my first Xbox all those years ago after polyphony digital dropped the ball.

Thank you for reading.


Everything you said was bang on, couldn’t have said it better myself and I’m hoping T10 reads your post carefully and really consider all of that going forward. Enough is enough, they have dabbled in silliness since Fm5 and while FM6 wasnt half bad, Fm7 has been lacking bad. Its nice that they are fixing stuff but this is not a real motorsport game when it could easily be while still retaining forzas niche.


Cheers StreetBurner.

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Please Turn 10 read this and take it seriously, because this is what your fanbase really want…
Well written and well thought about. Right on! Schumacher9


I liked most of it a lot, but the F1 racing series was a bit too much for me each racing weekend and I fear this becomes a bit too complicated.
But options should make this configurable for everyone.

On a sidenote: Yeah, give us a good career mode that makes us live through every single stage of motorsport instead of handing out super expensive cars/ race cars like candy.


I agree with every point except 14 and 17.

I’ve seen RPG like elements with upgrades in many games and they can ruin multiplayer balance. I would far rather have a complete level playing field with full access to the upgrades available.

Wind tunnel seems a bit unnecessary and would involved a huge amount of resources to model around each car. If Turn 10 enjoyed the development time that Polyphony digital get then sure but they dont.

The only other thing I would point out is that for all I would love animated pit stops I wouldn’t mind them as they are now if the tyre and fuel model was good. Currently it’s overall garbage. Again with development time being so short (they’re apparently only starting Forza 8 now and it’s out next year :thinking:) I can definitely understand shortcuts need to be made.

The only way Forza will become great is either give them a 5 year development cycle (usually the time required to make something special) or make 1 title to expand and develop per generation of console. I’m swinging more to the latter.

They say time and time again, gloating that they’re listening to the community looking all smug while proving they really aren’t as the most requested fixes and features are largely ignored.

As an owner of both a PS4 Pro and One X I will have to make a decision next year which platform I will purchase. I’m massively invested into Forza right now but I can easily see me leaving it behind next year.

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This post should be made sticky. I also agree with just about everything you posted, sounds like the recipe T10 needs to pull Motorsport from the brink of destruction. I’m really debating switching sides for next gen, Forza vs GT appears to be the deciding factor.

P.S. GT is winning at the moment, Turn 10 has to make the next installment great. I also agree that game as a service with a solid base is the way to go, the cars and tracks need rebuilding anyway.

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Big thanks, but appears they have moved the thread to “General Xbox Gaming” instead…

Bring back all features and tracks forza 4 had and the game will be fine for me.

But I do agree with most of what’s listed above.


to each patch els deteriorate the graphic quality of the game. very disappointed with this

Research & Development Special Parts? WOW! I love this idea! It could be something like Forza Edition cars with new engines to swap.
Let Forza Motorsport 8 to reach legendary status like Forza Motorsport 4.
Thanks to Turn 10 Studios for listening to the community.

P.S. And don’t forget about class-based rivals mode.

@ Schumacher 9l You really nailed this one! Hope they use some of the tips you listed,
I’ve read a lot of recommendation on which direction the series should go, but this one
is nearly spot on. Nice work! Now lets just hope T10 hears you.

I agree with points, but not 18 (Delete Unrealistic Cars ; SUV’s, 4x4’s, Vans, Trucks, Limos, etc are waste of space). In my opinion, if you can drive it, you can race it, and there are series around the world to support this, for example:

• Trophy Trucks and Stadium Super Trucks have been known to race on regular road/oval circuits. They’ve supported the Australian Supercars Championship at Adelaide and the Gold Coast for example. If people aren’t happy racing this on flat road courses, perhaps we could have the option to add jump ramps to replicate those races?
• 4x4s/SUVs: one of Formula E’s support series is a one-make race involving the Jaguar I-Pace electric SUV; the Supercars Championship mentioned earlier has a support series that includes a range of pick-ups such as the Toyota Hilux, Ford Ranger, Holden (Chevrolet) Colorado
• Trucks/Lorries: the Mercedes Tankpool truck is taken straight from the European Truck Racing Championship, and I for one would love to see more.

I appreciate these vehicles may not be for everyone, but I personally welcome the variation.

What I would like to see is a review of some of the divisions. For example, in my opinion the early Mazda MX-5s should not be in the same division as things like the RX-7 and 350Z (or Fairlady Z if you prefer). I’ve got no problem with the RX-7 and 350Z being grouped together, but the MX-5 is more of a roadster, so should be grouped with S2000s, the VX220, the MGB and the Fiat 124. I don’t think the Alfa 8C Competizione should be in Supercar Renaissance either – it should be in a group with GT cars; looking at the 8C’s Wikipedia page, and related articles include the Maserati Quattroporte and GranTurismo (luxury and grand tourers), not Enzos and MC12s.

I’d like to see an end to the Forza Specials category too, unless you’re going to give us a championship series for them.

I would also like to see a wider range of championships along the lines of what we had in FM4. I like the division championships, despite my reservations about how some of the cars are grouped, but I’d like to see more that focus on cars split by decade or era, manufacturer rivalries, nationalities or regions, model families (Mustang v Camaro, Falcon v Commodore).

Something I’d like to see come across from Horizon is the ability to change the colour of the stripes on manufacturer colours where they exist. Case in point – on the Koenigsegg Agera RS, I liked the positioning of the stripes on the base manufacturer colour, but not the colour combination itself (dark red/black). Previously, I would have had to paint the entire car a single colour, then try and recreate the stripes myself. Now that we have the ability to paint ‘group 1’ and ‘group 2’ I could set my base colour then choose my stripe colour separately. I was even pleased to see you can choose the ‘special colours’ (colour-shift/chrome/etc) – let’s expand on that and make the vinyl shapes be paintable in special colours too!

Here’s a brief summary of my reactions to the OP’s list, just to give my opinion (apologies to the OP if I’ve misunderstood any of his suggestions!):

  1. Name: No particularly strong feelings over the name, whether it gets the full FM8 or just starts again
  2. Motorsport DLC: AGREE – the more variation the better. I’m personally not bothered about drag or drift, but I appreciate there are those who are particularly keen on them
  3. Car Packs DLC: PARTIALLY AGREE – love the regular content idea, but don’t agree that SUVs/4x4s should be excluded for the reasons mentioned above. Make them less frequent – if an SUV is added one month, don’t add another one for the next three or four packs.
  4. Zero to Hero: PARTIALLY AGREE – a better sense of progression would be good. Don’t make it too much like hard work though – I like Project Cars, but don’t have the time to put in the time required to do practice/quali/race for the progression in career mode.
  5. Sponsorship: AGREE – was it FM5 or FM6 that had the manufacturer rewards (credit bonuses for using a brand more)? An expansion of that including liveries/decals would be cool.
  6. Custom Championships: AGREE – this would be cool for online play I think. There would be less of a need in single player though if we had an event list on FM4’s scale.
  7. League Racing: AGREE
  8. Licences: DISAGREE – I get that licences are supposed to team players how to race and, more importantly, race fairly. I find them the most tedious part of the Gran Turismo series though, they’re like a blockage to the game I want to play
  9. Online Adjudication: no opinion. Not used it enough
  10. Strategy for Long Races: as long as it’s optional, fair enough. More balance between AI and player fuel/tyre usage would be appreciated though.
  11. AI Performance: AGREE it could do with improving. I feel like the Drivatars have gone backwards a bit, and have a tendency to replicate people’s first corner pile-ups.
  12. Qualifying/Testing: PARTIALLY AGREE – make it optional though. As mentioned earlier, some of us don’t have time to do a full practice/quali/race weekend. We just want to jump into a series of races and try different cars.
  13. Upgrade/Engineering: DISAGREE – don’t make the upgrade/tuning too in-depth or inaccessible. Personally, I’m happy enough knowing if I stick a ‘sports’ exhaust on, I’ll get a bit more power; if I want a bit more grip, use a racier tyre compound.
  14. R&D Special Parts: DISAGREE – not so much with the parts I guess, but the RPG suggestion
  15. Adjustable Race Parts: PARTIALLY AGREE – I’ll be honest, I don’t fully utilise adjustable brake bias and things on GT Sport, so I probably wouldn’t use this. So make it optional if you’re going to have it.
  16. Race Car Preparation: AGREE – I did like some of the race modified cars in GT6 and the early GTs
  17. Wind Tunnel: DISAGREE – I don’t mind more clarity over aero changes, but this feels like overkill
  18. Unrealistic cars: STRONGLY DISAGREE – see my opening points about SUVs/trucks/etc. On the other hand, Valkyrie, new Supra, Group A touring cars? Yes please.
  19. Real World Tracks: PARTIALLY AGREE – some of the fantasy tracks make a nice change. I quite like Rio; Dubai’s a bit dull with the surrounding scenery but I don’t mind the layout. I would love more real world circuits though. Adelaide? Imola? Yes! I’d like to see some more UK tracks myself (Donnington, Croft, Thruxton, for example).
  20. Grip: no opinion.
  21. Race gear: PARTIALLY AGREE – can we keep some of the pre-set gear for those of us who don’t have the time/talent to design our own please? I quite like the Hot Wheels one my driver currently wears!

Thank you all for the positive feedback, and Steeeve104 for the very detailed review.
Please feel free to copy those ideas you want most and post them on discord, or (as i was directed) Xbox support “new ticket” link below under “feedback and suggestions”;


The more support for any one idea, the more likely it is to make it into the next game.
I certainly would expect turn 10 will struggle to make even half of these suggestions in a game (2021 ??)
Maybe i did go a bit overboard in places, but if they do end up following a subscription model, i think alot of features that don’t make it at launch can come later attached to relevant DLC.

IMSA - Brings Pit Stops & Race Engineer.
LMP - Brings Aero & Wind tunnel.
Even Trophy Trucks/ Rally cross (its Motorsport) can bring Ramps & Stadium/Dirt Track if enough people suggest it.

Going on Dan Greenwald’s comments in the March Stream, i think the next month or so will be our chance to provide feedback and have our say before Turn10 really start to ramp up production.

Thanks Again.

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The link does not work

It sounds remarkably like a wish list.
P.S. Who’s Dan Greenwald?

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I see the title being FM8, except they will flip the 8 to the side during the reveal, meaning the infinity symbol, i.e Forza Motorsport Infinity or Infinite. It will be the last numbered Forza Motorsport and will get in line with the “Halo Infinite” marketing. FM8 will be like how FM7 is now and how GTS is, constant content/updates. Hopefully, like GTS, this means more and more tracks. I could be wrong but that’s my guess.

I’m on the fence with games “as a service” though, so unlike what FH4 is with its “live services”, I hope FM8 doesn’t turn into a mobile phone game with constant engagement via Forzathon.

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Dan Greenwald is the man in charge of Turn10, Creative Director i think is his formal title.

At very end of March Stream he makes an appearance calling for feedback and ideas from players for next Motorsport, which i think is great.

It could be called a “Wishlist” i guess, but as there no “FM8” section so i posted a copy here for feedback and hopefully encourage others.


He was just being funny. Dan Greenwald = Dan Greenawalt

That is a nice list. The things I would add: 24 hour cycle, random weather (not presets but rain possibility percentage), realistic wheel rotation in cockpit and racing radar in HUD. Thanks for posting this, even though I have lost any remaining faith in this dev team, especially considering the amount of time they have to create next game. Oh, and why in 2019 people still put Blancpain stickers on the roof? Window stickers.