Why is this game, like those before, being left unpolished after years?

In the likely-vain hope that someone somewhere who can do something reads this . . .

Why are stupid little things not fixed? They’re known, established, “solved” and so on but they just stay there, year after year.

Forced wheelspins during certain events. This cannot be difficult to address.

Broken consumable perks. Some progress got made but they remain broken, or at best unexplained.

Broken in-game stats. Just . . . why? I have apparently only done 83/84 exhibitions, haven’t driven a legendary car in Eliminator, my highest speed trap score is 310 when my top speed is 300, haven’t received any “likes” for creative work when I have all the accolades, haven’t any Hot Wheels qualifier stars but have all accolades and such, I have 15/1 drift zone stars earned on Hot Wheels, I’ve done 111/65 Horizon Story chapters, and I could go on.

The map icons for various PR stunts get over-written with lower numbers of stars - sometimes - if they’re done differently.

Blurred/pixellated thumbnails of the cars in the garage. Again, just . . . why?

Why, like the insane 3000 missing explorer influence in Horizon 4, are these left unattended? They are not going to be difficult to sort out and would leave the game that little bit more polished.

So, why?

6 Likes

At a guess, it’s probably due to a couple of things.

For one brief moment of benefit of the doubt for the developers, its possible lots of these bugs are possibly buried under so much code that it’s easier leaving them be rather than risking nuking the entire game. Obviously, we don’t know this for sure, but it isn’t improbable, and its the only “hopeful” answer I can really come up with as the other, and sadly just as likely alternative, is laziness.

One thing the developers have also never confirmed for any of their games is how many people are on the support team after each game launches. I’ve heard rumors most of Playground Games’s employees get reallocated to working on the next sequel once the latest game launches, and the amount of developers on the support team likely dwindles even more after the DLC maps are released.

As a result, I wouldn’t be shocked if a skeleton crew has been giving us content since Rally Adventure dropped, and new content took precedence over smoothing over Horizon 5’s rougher edges.

Plus, given there was a change in creative directors after launch, but Horizon 5 was obviously to far in to be morphed into another creative director’s vision post-launch, it wouldn’t shock me either if Horizon 5 was also written off from a creative standpoint, and thus enthusiasm for improving the game was also thin.

Again though, these are all guess on my part. It could be all of these, it could be some of these, or it could be none of these.

5 Likes

Thanks. T10 do the support, not sure where it goes from there in terms of PG or T10 input.

1 Like

These days, I imagine its all in PG’s court, with the exception of the physics system and the car models. Maybe the lighting engine too.

1 Like

In addition, I understand FH5 is nearing its end but I’d sure like there to be more focus on game stability. I play on PC and for the last two months or so FH5 has had a higher crash per race average than I do.

Mildly sarcastic, but I can count on at least one crash to desktop every Thursday when going for 80 points in the seasonal stuff. Two crashes to desktop minimum if playing with a group.

But the smaller things still get me too. For one, the '87 Firebird widebody still has a shader glitch I reported within hours of the bodykit being brought to the game and it never got fixed. I haven’t used the upgrade because of how bad it looks and it should be a simple fix.

4 Likes

I thought about this thread while being frustrated by the AI blatantly cheating for the umpteenth time in last week’s cross-country Trial, and then this week’s amusingly broken rollout of the repeat series made me want to dig it up. Given everything we’ve seen over this game’s lifetime, I think @Runoff1999 has it right: the engine has built up a large amount of technical debt over the years, which should probably be expected given how many new systems have been bolted onto it. The development team has been either unable or unwilling to do a thorough house-cleaning on the engine when making each game, and as a result we’ve seen certain issues persist for a solid decade now (like the glitched car thumbnails that have been a problem since at least FH3). And once the main development of a game is completed, I’d imagine that most of the team is reassigned to development of the next title, leaving a comparatively small group left to handle bugs that crop up during the game’s active lifespan.

It’s obvious where the priorities lie, given what actually gets added and fixed. There’s enough of an art team to work on modeling new cars added to the game (at least those that weren’t modeled years earlier and held back for later release), and in turn a lot of the issues that do get fixed in patches are asset-related, like missing textures on a certain car’s trim. There are technical fixes for immediate new issues, like this week’s broken Playlist completion, but beyond that there’s little to no effort put into addressing many long-lived bugs that have persisted across multiple titles. Most frustrating of all are the clearly-documented issues that are labeled as “won’t fix,” despite affecting much or even all of the playerbase. Even on a smaller scale you have certain errors that would be trivial to fix, things like that missing Explorer experience in FH4, or the numerous infoboxes for cosmetic items incorrectly stating that they could be obtained via Wheelspin. But for whatever reason no one bothers to make them right.

Honestly the thing that frustrates me the most is how even when we get a response to certain issues, it often comes across as tone-deaf. We all know how bad the AI can be in this game, and in particular how it’s straight-up broken in many Trials. I still remember early on when players were complaining about the AI weaving drunkenly across the track at the start of Trial races, and the official response was along the lines of, “Well changing the AI could affect balance, so we’re not willing to do that.” Um…you’re running a live-service racing game. It is literally your job to patch the AI if it’s misbehaving, and yet you refuse to do so. I’ve never played the Gran Turismo games, but I follow content creators who do, and nearly every major update they talk about has patch notes that include some sort of AI tweaking. Because again, that’s the developers’ job. Hell, GT7 even tweaks car balance to encourage more competitive racing in certain classes. Meanwhile FH5 releases new cars that are terrible no matter what class they’re upgraded to, and no effort is ever made after the fact to adjust their performance or PI values.

I want to make clear that I’m not blaming individual developers for this. I’m sure there are plenty of talented and dedicated people working on the Horizon series. But I also believe that they’ve been put in an impossible situation by the higher-ups, one that doesn’t allow for the type of active development that this game sorely needs. The fact that an update like this past week, with universal bugs that would have been instantly caught in a few minutes if they had been tested on consumer hardware before launch, was allowed to get through is proof positive of that. Horizon is a series with so much potential, but unless there’s a fundamental change in development philosophy, it’s never going to live up to it.

10 Likes

The Trials were actually challenging when the game first launched. You didn’t have drivatars drunkenly swerving all over the place.

Then the community whined incessantly about having to replay the Trial more than once to find a decent team, so they nerfed the AI into oblivion.

Now 4 of the drivatars are just there to impede the progress of players so the front two can make a meager attempt at getting away but they still end up being laughably easy to catch once you make it past the 4 blockers.

At the end of the day, the community is at fault for everything being so easy in the game because of the pushback the devs get whenever anything even remotely challenging is added in the playlist.

3 Likes

I mean there’s a big gap between “tone down the Trial AI a little” and “utterly break the AI’s ability to drive in a straight line.” If the developers couldn’t do the former without the latter, then that’s on them.

7 Likes

I think the main reason for a “almost” broken game and potentially no fixing is becaus of the multiplattform approach of the game - every fix on one plattform can cause to break a working game mechanic on another plattform. So some of the “cosmetic bugs” remain unsolved. And some are carried over from earlier installments of the game engine…

I really wonder if Forza Horizon 6 will be build up from ground up new like Forza Motorsport (2023) who had many of the same old bugs like motorsport 6 or 7 which clearly shouldn’t exist in an all new produced game. So that was pure marketing speech.

I don’t know if Forza Horizon 6 will then build up new from ground up. I only know that I will not buy it if it is always online like Forza Motorsport (2023). Because of that I didn’t play The Crew 2 anymore and I didn’t bought The Crew: Motorfest or Test Drive Solar Crown.

I like to play Forza Horizon 2 on my X-Box One and Forza Horizon 3 and 4 on my PC or on my Xbox Series X.

1 Like

I hope if FH6 uses the new FM engine that the devs first attempt to find the ground before attempting to build up from it.

@x_ShadowsBane_x does have a point, the Trials did used to be more challenging, though I don’t know how much of it might have changed because of upset players. The Horizon games have long had an issue with a ‘rogue drivatar’ (or two) who would seemingly rocket boost off the line and be impossible to catch for the entire race and this still persists in FH5. This effect is always worst in CC events.

In addition, over the last year or two the FH5 drivatars have done some truly bizarre things like throwing cars into reverse at the starting line or simply putting it in park for a second or three.

If the drivatars really do take input from the players then it doesn’t surprise me most of the AI would have gotten far more chaotic with time. Early in the game’s life they would stick much closer to the driving line (the still visible ‘conga line’ effect of cars crossing the finish line,) but now they certainly are far more prone to dive-bombing into turns or randomly swerving violently into player cars.

Whether the devs did dumb down the drivatars or they’ve gotten bloated over years of games, updates, messy data, or some combination thereof, they sure are a different breed now than when FH5 had first launched.

3 Likes

When you have a constant open world online game, youre going to get more bugs. Thats in every major online game i have played. At least developers patch them as best they can.

1 Like

Horizon 6 is more than likely going to built on the same hardware as Horizon 5. I know Turn 10 loves to brag about the whole “built from the ground up” thing, but I personally think there’s a lot of credence to the rumors that Motorsport 2023 is just built on the same old hardware we’ve had since Motorsport 5.

At best, we might get more steering wheel rotation in the cockpit that Motorsport 2023 got. But then again, Horizon 4 once had paddle shifter animation that suddenly vanished in Horizon 5, so who knows.

4 Likes

well, yes, but some are many years old

take the broken consumable perks; that’s surely nothing more than a set of flags in a database file

3,000 Explorer Influence was missing in Horizon 4 for all players, everyone was at stage 29 (or whatever) with 29,700 on the clock and then . . . nothing, no explanation, no discussion

broken statistics, again, just a database

I understand your point and for some things yes but these ones scream “I am a very simple bug”

others cannot be multiple-platform issues; the robots in the game must behave the same for all platforms because all platforms can play each other, so if there were a platform-specific but it’d be blatantly obvious and be extremely serious

the broken consumable perks got partly addressed during the Horizon 5 lifetime so why didn’t they just deal with the whole lot or at least explain why they’re not broken?

but anyway, you’re not wrong as a “thing to remember” but there are situations where that doesn’t or can’t apply . . .

. . . and those things are just not going to get fixed, ever, it’s the way it gets done

1 Like

The first thing they did with drivatars was take away tuned cars. Then it was too easy. It actually wasn’t hard when they were tuned. Where is this majority they listen to and make changes for? And yet they still don’t fix the things most actually complain about. It’s so clearly about ppg not caring at all once they get your initial money. I would rebuy fh5 for full price if they fix the bugs and update the menu system so you can do simple things like store cars better for easier retrieval before a race or make getting a stored paint job for your current car to appear first instead of scrolling through hundreds of them. There are a dozen things that could easily be updated and fixed that would be worth the cost of the game again for me.

And if there was any other open world race game even remotely close to fh5 I would drop this game in an instant. I’ve been playing ppg games for about 12 years and have zero loyalty to the company.

your list is well short, they have long since lost touch with their player base.

I wasn’t intending to write an exhaustive list, just a few glaring things. There are others, I’m sure, but I think the ones I chose are illustrative enough for the point I was making.