Are you referring to something like the rewards in the Horizon series? You get XPs for clean racing, drafting and so on, and that accumulates throughout the race, and eventually once you finish with the race, and that gets turned to credits?
I wasn’t thinking specifically of that, but something approximately like the skill chains from Horizon could work well for incentivizing clean racing, especially if the payout was significant. The one change I would make to that system is to not have the chain break if you’re rammed by someone else, even if you end up off the track (otherwise it just gives griefers another reason to ram).
My thought was more about significantly reducing the bonus for finish position and adding in bonuses based on fastest and average lap times relative to other racers. This would allow all players to competitive on the credit front without being penalized for not being at the front of the pack.
To discourage reckless/dangerous driving, too many penalties in a race could potentially result in a credit/xp deduction at the end as well.
The idea is to reward desirable behavior (clean, fast racing) and take the focus away from winning at all costs, and penalize the worst behaviors that affect other racers (ramming, reckless/dangerous driving).
I also continue to advocate for some sort of optional racing school/driving tutorial. If you simply penalize players for bad driving without teaching them what good driving is, then you’ll likely push a lot of people away from the game. If the game notices a player frequently incurring penalties and generally having trouble racing fast and cleanly, it could suggest (in a nice way) that they might consider trying out the racing school. Veteran players who already know the ropes can skip it (unlike the annoying race licenses in GT), but less experienced players have a place to go to learn how to actually play the game and learn real racing techniques.
You have got some cool ideas 
One thing that really annoys me is, let’s say you start first in a league race and you get slammed in to 20th in the first corner, then with some decent driving you get back to 8th you still get docked points because you diddnt place in the same place as you started and it dosnt count all the work you put back in to get back tho that position 
Career + Bad AI + 3 or less lap hoppers = topic.
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If you’re on the inside line getting on the gas is how you complete the pass. This is assuming you have the grip to do it. If you’re in a Bentley and an Elise is driving around you on the outside, the Elise is probably going to win or you’re going to wreck both cars.
This discussion is pointless. People will never learn, at least not the casuals. It’s like expecting fish not to stink.
The only reason why multiplayer was so good on Forza 2 was because of the maturity of the people online at the time. What you saw then is pretty much what you see now in Project Cars or Assetto Corsa. It was a time before casuals started to flood into the online racing scene.
So now, you’ve only got two options. A) Suck it up and deal with it. or B) Move on to something that you’ll be happier with.
Cause whining about it ain’t gonna git you nowhere. This ain’t something that a developer can fix overnight or even a decade for that matter.
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Calling bull, penalties would fix at least half these problems
And if it doesn’t, at least it gives the actual griefers a way to keep score.
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Rack up too many (ramming) penalties and auto bans start, the more you are banned the longer the bans last. It can be be pretty lenient say 5-6 penalties of the sort in one race = a ban. Averaging 4 car touches a race over a 20ish race time period = warning and lowers that limit by one until said person raises their clean racing score. Basic paint trading =/= ramming. Ramming = shoving someone out of the way and they leave the track because of the contact or hitting someone from behind, or dive bombing etc.
Adding auto bans to it would be even more ridiculous than the hypothetical penalty system itself. One major issue being that due to the vagaries of online play it’s entirely possible to be bumping/ramming someone from their point of view while not touching them from yours. Another being a lack of peripheral awareness in several of the camera views. Far too possible to be penalised for collisions that aren’t really one’s fault, let alone intentional.
You should know and expect where people will be without having to look. This is a given for any experienced driver. If you don’t know how to do it you need to LEARN how to do it. If I take the inside and you are behind me or beside me I expect you to take the outside or follow in behind me. I don’t NEED to look or worry about you when I know where you should be. Same goes for if I take the outside. You should know that I’m taking the outside line and to not mash on the accelerator at the end of the corner because I’m likely going to be there and you are going to shove me off the track. To me this is common sense. Pro drivers will also explain this to you. You do not need to worry about the person behind you, it is HIS/HER job to pass you cleanly. All you have to do is focus on your own car and your own line.
Problem is, in public lobbies no one knows how to do this so you just end up with people pushing others out of the way and wrecks 24/7. You don’t have to ban either, put them in a wreckers lobby instead of with clean drivers.
Depends how you dish em out. Too minor or too many loopholes, you’ll get people skirting the system like with Forza 2’s penalty timer or simply not care. Too harsh and you’ll risk punishing those who aren’t at fault due to inaccuracy like in GT Sport.
Maybe punishment shouldn’t be our main focus but educating and rewarding good driving should be. I can think of a few possible perks to reward good drivers.
One of the perks I thought of is “Pack Leader”. This perk gives preferrential treatment to good drivers so they start at the front of the grid. It is continually assessed to award those that display good clean racing AND good racing performance and it ties in with their overall Sportsmanship rating. The higher your “Pack Leader” status, the more preference you’ll get. If you’re slow and/or dirty, in the back you go. So only the fastest and cleanest racers of the highest pedigree would deserve to start in front.
This is false. Those “good” players are the same ones who are racing right through me and ramming me out of the way like I do not exist. Just because I’m not dumb enough to give you the inside of the corner does not give you the right to shove me out of the way and take it anyway or dive bomb 24/7 and cause wrecks.
Not to mention if they continue to wreck you in said fashion none of your lap times will be good which has already happened to me MULTIPLE times today.
I rarely see actual fast drivers ram and smash their way past someone unless the deserved it although it does happen from time to time, especially people from certain countries tend to be more assertive than others. That being said elaborate on these dive bombs by good players that are ramming you out of the way because you aren’t giving up the inside.
Are you taking the inside lane away by moving toward the middle of the track as you approach the braking zone forcing them to go around the outside?
Or are you taking the typical wide approach giving them the inside line in the braking zone?
Are they making the apex or using you as a brake?
Are they beside you at the apex ?
Are you are coming down on them into their side or is their nose just barely stuck in and you are expecting them to back out?
Me use faster car for straightaways, me not stupid enough to give car with more cornering the inside line, driver behind me gives me the middle finger and rams me out of the way almost every single time. I did not block, my intentions were made clear from nearly the beginning of the straights etc.
I do not take the outside line unless someone has already taken the inside line. You should never give someone the inside unless you do not have the handling for it.
I can understand the anger, but lets just cool off a little and take it easy. I never said those kinds of players were good. So I thought of a new system that orders the grid based on the history of each individual racer. I wasn’t explaining the current system that only takes the fastest times into account.
Quoted from post #34;
"With the perk I’ve doodled up, you’d be judged based on your overall history instead of a single lap. With a larger sample size, you could better place players into more appropriate grid positions. A sort of predetermined qualifying if you will, based on individual assessment of aptitude and sportsmanship.
To improve your qualifying points, you’ll have to put in the effort to improve yourself as a driver in respect to both speed and safety."
A good tip from my uncle is to never let your anger affect your skills of interpretation. That’s probably the biggest reason behind most misunderstandings.
They already do this. The fastest lap from the previous race starts at the front of the pack the slowest lap at the rear, the slowest clean lap being faster than the fastest dirty lap. I don’t know how the newly joined people are sorted though because at least in the leagues I will usually start about mid pack my first race.
We could do better though, in my opinion. With the perk I’ve doodled up, you’d be judged based on your overall history instead of a single lap. With a larger sample size, you could better place players into more appropriate grid positions. A sort of predetermined qualifying if you will, based on individual assessment of aptitude and sportsmanship.
To improve your qualifying points, you’ll have to put in the effort to improve yourself as a driver in respect to both speed and safety.
I’d love to see a Forza built around core HPDE principles. Maybe in Forza 8 hopefully.
If someone is on your outside you CANNOT step on the gas to exit the corner normally this shoves people off the track. STOP DOING IT!
We see drivers ran wide in the pinnacle of motorsports with no penalties from the FIA however I do believe you should always give your opponent at least a cars width and doing so you can force them as wide as possible, this can cause an unskilled driver to basically shove themselves off the track as they can not thread that needle. Best to play it safe and give more room in a public hopper.
If someone is directly behind you and you move in front of them right before a corner YOU ARE BLOCKING
The point is to pick a line and commit, changing that last second is indeed blocking and usually ends up with both drivers off the road
If you pass someone you do not immediately get in front of them before a corner
If you pass somebody you have every right to approach whatever line you wish as it is your corner however I think I see where you’re going with this.
If you crash off the track you wait to get back on the track
I would say look before rejoining and wait if necessary. Its people not looking that’s the issue rather than not waiting.
You brake early when directly behind someone or better yet don’t tailgate in the first place
Brake when you want and get as close to that bumper as possible. If you can’t find a way to overtake sometimes pressure is enough to force somebody into a mistake. The key here is to not make contact. Nothing wrong with cautious racing of course and this is where styles differ.
And don’t even get me started about dive bombs, people trying to squeeze through tight spaces on the inside forcing you off the track, people not paying attention to whether or not another car is around them, etc.
I’ve came from 100ft back into a hairpin and got the car on the apex making a very clean move. The problem arises when you brake far to late and end up hitting the other driver (Divebomb) or by doing this move on a corner where this move just isn’t going to work. It’s all about knowing the overtaking zones on each track. The general rule of thumb is the attacker must be at least halfway alongside the defender when they reach the apex, it doesn’t matter how far back you come from. If you make a late braking maneuver you have to make sure you hit the apex!
As for people paying attention to cars around them, it isn’t as simple as that sounds. Guys racing outside the car have a huge amount of visual information at all times but people like myself who drive hood cam or the purists who drive cockpit can see so much. Some people have the ability to multitask in these situations but not everybody has the ability to do anything else but try to make the corner. Over time you see the same names in lobbies and understand how they race and they understand you. At the front, these are where the best battles are. Mid pack back its a dog eat dog world and god help you if you get smashed there turn 1 
This link will be useful for those who don’t understand racing etiquette
Now the key point in all of this however is this. Not everybody is a serious racer, some people just play it as a game and do whatever it is that they get enjoyment from. You want serious clean racing? Enter events on ORL, Delta or TORA for example. You will rarely find a group of like minded individuals in a random public lobby and thats the top and bottom of it really.
2 Likes
They apply in multiplayer what they learn in singleplayer.