Hi turn 10. I would like to ask about the change of path. with the creations of forza after FM3. Back in FM3 we had variety and balance in the higher classes. In FM3 for R1 class cars, we had a variety of cars to use, they all had their pro’s and cons which helped them dominate according to the track they were used on. Let me give a few examples here. In FM3 we had from this list of cars to use in many different tracks according to their strengths. Mazda bo9 with rotary engine swap, Toyota GT-ONE, Aston Martin Lola, #16 and #7 spyder evo’s, Peugeot 908, Audi tdi15+, audi tdi 15++, f333 ferrari and a few more. All those cars i have mentioned had their own strength and weakness. The toyota gt one lacked acceleration but had good top end and handling. The B09, lacked cornering but had good acceleration and top speed. The Aston Martin Lola lacked top speed but had good acceleration and handling. The #7 Spyder evo lacked stability at high speeds but could carry out good lateral g’s through a corner. The #16 lacked the cornering potential of the #7 but compensated for it’s well out balanced between acceleration and stability through a corner. The audi’s and peugeot all lacked cornering potential vs the spyder evo’s but held vs them through sheer acceleration out of corners and enough top end to keep up with the spyder evos on the stretches. What i’m trying to say here is, why did you guys drive off that path of balance and variety you had in the former forza that made it so much more competitive than what it is now? ever since the creation of FM4, the leaderboads in R1 and X class, is being dominated by 1 or 2 cars out of all the many choices we have to use. If is not too much to ask turn 10, may we get a forza motorsports created with the variety and balance that FM3 had. It would be much more enjoyable and competitive to play, knowing that, we can use all cars to it’s full potential by abusing their pro’s and cons. There should be no reason why a car in the game should be 8-10 seconds faster than any other car in the game. Also would like to add one side note. Please make sure the bumps and rumble strips are not so rough to drive over. There should be no reason why the cars should go full airbourne by touching a rumble strip of a corner or bump on the track.
I don’t think the problem is a lack of balance between the cars so much as a more generalized PI system. Older forza games had a different PI system for race cars than they did for street cars. Newer forza games use a stacking PI that puts the race cars up at the top. I think this allows clever players the ability to fine tune and finesse cars to be much quicker than their counterparts because PI differences don’t accurately represent the cars.
I usually race street vehicles in D class but it is fairly persistent throughout the classes that a few cars are true standouts when upgraded and tuned properly. (73 trans am, 97 civic, Acura integra are good examples in D class)
PI in Forza 3 had nothing to do with it. every single car in R1 fully maxed out stayed at 998PI and be competitive. yes in FM3 you still had the X Class level PI but even then, you still had multiple different choices of cars to drive. in this game is not that way. IN the forzas that came out after Forza 3, if you tried to fully upgrade one of the R1 cars, it would reach 998 without being fully affective in anyway possible, unless it was built fully into X Class PI level. The PI in all forza’s after FM3 are screwed up. every prototype car should be able to be fully maxed out in parts and not go beyond it’s actual pi max level, even though FM3 had the same issue, but had a better balance ratio between cars. The reason why the new forza’s lack so much balance is because, not all cars can be max tuned to max performance. For that simple reason alone, you always end up having one or two cars being 10 seconds faster than any other car. For multiple reasons this is bad. 1. the game lacks balance. 2. the game gets boring because you are forced to run the same two cars over and over and over again, just to be competitive. 3. the competition since the creation of Forza 4, has dropped exponentially. There are a lot of fast people, and fast teams who dis-banded and stopped playing because turn 10 stopped giving balance and variety to the game. The request is truly simple. EXTREMELY SIMPLE. Don’t make one car completely dominate the leaderboards. Not just only are you not creating a true simulation racing game, you are not providing people the ability to show their true capabilities, by fine tuning cars to their strength. The jaguar in FM6 has more acceleration than the mazda 787b, peugeot 905c, GT-ONE Race Car, Bentley, the bmw’s prototypes, F333, chevy daytona prototype. you get my point. the only way that car can be beat is if you can make a ridiculious higher top end than what the jag is capable of. the only car capable of doing that are the bentley, porsche 962c, the mazda 787b and the peugeot 905c. but there is two things all those cars lack in comparison to the jaguar, and that is handling and acceleration. the jaguar has 8.9 handling in the bar and the mazda has 9.0 yet the jaguar eats it on the corners. is the same thing with the ford riley, chevy prototype, ferrari F333, bmw’s, bentley,. the only cars capable of out accelerating the jaguar are the audi’s and the peugeot 908. and check this out, the audi’s have 8.8 handling to the jaguars 8.9. how is it that .1 makes the car handle at such an insane difference to the audi’s?. the peugeot 908 is the same thing. it also has 8.8 handling yet it stands no chance in the amount of speeds it can carry through the corners as the jaguar can. The game is extremely un-balanced. i won’t lie, some arcade games at an arcade shop have a better balance output in their cars than forza has right now. turn 10 is getting sloppy. they have gone down a road that has made them lose people’s interest in the game. As i said before, the request is truly simple. nothing out of this world.
Also forgot to put one thing in. The lower class cars have a huge world of parts to upgrade with, making them affective in a lot of ways. When you go to P Class cars you only have from three options. Removing Resictrictors, brakes and tires. There is literally nothing in comparison to D and P Class cars. I’m sorry but unless you have been running Prototype cars since FM3 you won’t really understand what my concept is about to it’s fullest.
I was just on FM3 the other day and the performance of the LMPs were much more realistic than what we have now. a lot of the older cars weren’t as good through the corners as the modern stuff which it should be, but now things like the 333SP and the R8 are now as quick as the new, way more developed cars.
Also the new P cars were given rubbish handling (8.5-8.7) which is silly as the 2014 R18 is only second to Lotus F1 IRL in terms of cornering and way better than the croup C on 80’s/90’s F1 that shouldn’t be faster and the fastest ever prototype doesn’t have the highest PI (919). Its made even more silly by the fact the gave the Lola B12/80 Mazda 9.2 for handling, the 8 year old design that hasn’t been upgraded since 2011, with is smaller rear wing, with the less powerful front diffusor vs the lmp1 front wing, and its unsprung weight is higher too. I just don’t get why they did that make the new LMPs 0.5 worse off in handling, even the RS Spyder isn’t as good, despite it being built to pre cost capped P2 regs with more power, bigger wing and less weight, but that cant live with the downgraded Lola that was conceived at the same time. Now I don’t mind them giving the Lola Mazda the power that a P2 car should have and not the 300bhp the real thing produced, but giving it the insane handling meant it wasn’t balanced with the DPs like it should have been.
To be honest all the race cars need looking at and changing in all aspects because some have been given a generic performance, others out of place and all of them are too slow. The speed is way off as BTCC cars are a little faster than the P1, la Ferrari etc yet the hyper cars are in the class above and are even higher than the GTE/GT3 cars PI was despite the fact a GT3 car would wipe the floor with them,
i agree with you 100% hop along. If you race any car in FM6 that is not the jag,787b,962c, or nissan, every single car brought in a decent fight to the game. Of course some of them had superior strength than other according to the track but still had variety. the gt-one bentley and peugeot were damn good to race in public around tracks like daytona, watkins because they had the speed for the straight aways, but the audi’s and bmw’s fought them well on the corners. is things like that i love about forza, that turn 10 is losing sight of. Is costing them money because people choose to quit playing forza over simple things like this. it might seem like small and simple complaints, but even the smallest problem becomes big if not dealt with. i just hope that they realise this sooner than later.