I don’t know if proximity sensors are currently speed-dependent or not, but it seems like they should be. A 1.5 second gap when you’re racing in a D-class Mini Cooper is a much different scenario to a 1.5 second gap while racing in, say, a field of LMdh prototypes.
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I’m not a fan of Horizon in general but you can tell the quality of development compared to this. Thanks to GP it’s also the last Forza I ever purchased. Is that a good thing?
I would imagine Fh5 and 6 (especially if it’s based in Japan ) will sell crazy numbers when they’re released on PS. I mean why wouldn’t you at this point
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I’m my experience of lower class racing (typically B class and lower), it’s definitely inconsistent and early.
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Horizon, on top of being excellent games (not without their issues, but they’re the kinds of issues only hardcore players care about) have another advantage over Motorsport: less competition.
Horizon competes against (and beats): Need for Speed, The Crew
Motorsport competes against (and loses to): iRacing, Assetto Corsa, F1, rFactor, Automobilista, Le Mans (and to a lesser extent WRC and Project CARS, and Gran Turismo if one is choosing a console to buy).
Even putting those games aside, Motorsport’s biggest problem is that Horizon exists. It will always be compared to Horizon due to the fact it’s part of the same brand, and Horizon hoovers up all the fun/casual “normie players” that Motorsport used to get a decade ago.
Motorsport hasn’t been the top selling arm of the Forza brand since 2012, the year Horizon debuted. It never will be again.
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I agree, I don’t think Fm will ever outsell FH ever again it will probably be measured in the millions. That said (and I have no imperial data) there does to seem to be a growing market for sim racing. The caveat being when done well. I imaging GT7 has turned a healthy profit even it may have lost share to the dedicated sims. If I was in charge of t10 that’s where I’d have my guns pointed
I didn’t follow HiFi Rush closely, but I can believe that.
Now that, I don’t. Of all of 2023’s XBox failures, Redfall was the hardest - that game’s numbers crashed like an asteroid after the reviews came in, and they never recovered. I glanced at the Steam numbers a few weeks ago, and the game was struggling to break 30 players.
The thing about Game Pass is that it was never going to work as a Netflix for games. Not even Netflix itself works that way anymore - they’ve been producing original content for years. Couple that with the live-service fad, and it’s a recipe for disaster. When one game in your library is a persistent live-service, it’s one thing that may or may not be manageable. When your entire library is live-service, that’s impossible to sustain. No one can keep up with all of that stuff. Not every game needs to be a sink for money and time to go into, especially if you don’t own those games to begin with.
Turn 10 isn’t going away…yet. Not yet, it ain’t (read that in your best Clarence Boddicker voice). The ForzaTech engine is too valuable to other studios to scrap outright. But as a AAA studio putting AAA product? Oh, yeah, they’re done. They’re DONE done. Back when I thought this game had a chance, I said that they were going to have to do drastic things to avoid falling into the loop they are in now. They have to spend millions of dollars and countless hours fixing this game…which leads to the question “Why are you spending all of this effort on this game? Put it towards the next one”…which in turn leads to “Wait, why are you spending all of this money and effort? We saw what happened the last time.” Breaking that loop is hard. Really hard. Which is why I think they’re headed to being a support studio for PGG.
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Either way it’s an incredibly sad (and totally unavoidable ) situation l. I’ve seen a lot of heat coming at the Xbox leaders on line, and Esaki for this, one person you never see any heat directed to… Alan Hartman, former head of t10, now head of XGS.
Be great to hear his plans.
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It’s nearly that time when they release details of the new patch. I really hope we see meaningful progress this time like we did the last time they didn’t release a track.
More to do on game would be great.
Improved the AI
Improve matchmaking
Improve clean racing and penalties
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The quarterly roadmap update they promised in early January would be nice as well.
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To me, this is a shame. Going back to my days with GT on Playstation 1 and 2, these games were always games. Lots of challenges to complete, cups to run, etc. When I play FM7, it’s kind of the same thing. A game with loads of things to do.
It feels depressing to see that kind of “fun game” getting tangled up with the more “serious simulation” angle.
And worse, it feels like a double whammy for Forza to try and pursue “serious simulation” type stuff. Firstly, getting too serious results in lost casual game players. And secondly, unless there is a 100% full commit on the “serious simulation”, then the serious simulation players aren’t going to be pleased with the product.
Losing a big chunk of your old main player base. And failing to win the core of your new target players?
Sticking with the “fun game” angle just seems to me so much more “right” for Forza Motorsport. Especially with the focus on having the game available as a GamePass title.
But the “fun game” stuff is just too thin in FM23. So few cups, no challenges, no endurance cups, no drag, or drift. Not even a single race car cup. Not one. The very thing all my friends who tried FM23 mentioned to me. No race car cups. In a game called “Motorsport”.
Last night I was playing Mario Kart 8. And I do not post this as a comedy or jab. I was completing the “get 3 stars” for each of the cups and engine classes. Counting it up, even Mario Kart 8 has so many more times the events to complete than FM23.
It’s unfortunate. Unfortunate that all these rotation Cup events don’t stay in FM23 to be enjoyed again. Unfortunate that so little fun gameplay content was included.
I bought my XBox Series S and a wheel, back when I preordered FM23. The promo videos showed what looked like a next-generation visual presentation. I knew the Series S would give a lower-spec visual, but coupled with a wheel and accessories, I got set up for just about $1000.
I chose this instead of a PS5 and the last-gen GT7.
And I absolutely must say, the real time lighting, even on my Series S, is exactly what I was hoping for. A very dynamic feel to the worlds and weather around the track. Always visually fresh. Yes blurry, yes problems with textures and materials, and other visual problems.
But it is the missing “fun game” content that FM23 desperately needs. And I don’t think Microsoft and/or T10 even are thinking in this way. This stuff will never come.
I’m on the fence now to just go ahead and try GT7. It’s only money. Life is short. And once a racing game is delisted from the market in a few years, that experience gone. May as well enjoy it while it’s in the prime.
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So many great points here. I too am a casual, forza is by far my post played game ever. I don’t really fancy iracing or even GT7 but yes, you’re absolutely right, it all boils down to fun.
I’ve liked the competitive aspect to previous FM’s albeit with a controller. This game has provided fun in such small bursts compared to previous titles. It’s like the featured career we have now, you know actual, race cars, motorsports! My personal favourite is group C cars. I went as a kid to Le Mans watching them. What we get is four races of four laps…. And the best part? This will be deleted in a couple of weeks. It’s such an open goal. There’s really no excuse, the content is already created and it takes more work to delete it than leave it in. Its a shambles
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“So, what’s coming in the next few months? In addition to adding more tracks and specific features like Spectate Mode, Endurance Races, Car Proximity Radar, Forza GT car division changes, and Logitech TrueForce support to name just a few, we’re improving the overall experience of Multiplayer with some significant changes:”
“That’s right, we’ll also be bringing multi-class and endurance races to Motorsport soon!”
They listened 
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We’re also aware of the clever exploits that players are using to combat intentional ramming, and working on a solution of our own that we hope to implement in the coming months.
So pausing is an exploit?
No, but using smoke screen or pit exits are exploits. I think pause ghosting should be available until we get 1- improved [and maybe a bit more brutal] FRR or 2- FH5’s high speed rammer detector or 3- have both.
My choice: option 3
Also, I’m just happy about 1- radar 2- spectator mode 3- forza gt division rework 4- proper endurance multi class racing.
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Where is the news on the forza gt rework and endurance racing?
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Well, this is pretty good i am excited now 
Stability Improvements and better optimization plus especially graphical fixes and good new content will be huge as an update. See T10 it’s not that hard to communicate and slowly rebuild your badly wounded player base.
Let’s hope we see good amount of cars in update 8 besides other improvements.
Imagine the new gen mustang and merc sl plus alfa 155 and m4 gt3 and 911gt3 rs well an update like that definitely will doubled the player counts.
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Click the link and read.
Plus new and returning tracks like sebring, long beach, COTA, etc.
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I disagree with the notion pause ghosting is an exploit. It’s the one manual tool a player can use to completely avoid a sudden griefing attack.
On top of that it also slows the car down to 30% throttle on most tracks, so there is no performance advantage to using it.
Reading between the lines, the solution they have in mind may be what Horizon does, with speed-sensitive ghosting prediction at corner entry.
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Ok, I missed it. A one line throw away sentence.
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