Turn exit rotation problem

I’ve been playing with tuning since FM6, but really got more into it in FM7. Learning what I can on my own, investigating tuning calculators, using their output and fine tuning to educate myself on how to get tunes where I want them. I’ve come a very long way in that goal, but there is one problem I’ve noted on a few cars over the months, and so far I’ve been unable to tune it out. I’m certainly willing to believe the problem is my driving, but nothing I’ve tried has really worked well.

Basically, the cars work well except for exit on sharp/slow turns. Just at the point where the rear end should come around a bit on throttle, instead it almost feels like it binds up. And it takes a good part of a second to recover and get on it’s way. Of course this kills my times, and relegates those cars to the “I don’t like it” pile. Now that I’ve finished the carrier mode, and still no sign of improved online experience, I’ve gone back to try to figure it out, and still fail.

The current car in question is the Viper SRT10 FE, mostly tuning and fooling around on Sebring Club. After all, might as well get some extra credits while fooling with it.

I’m guessing the root of the problem is low power at lower rpms. The curve shown in engine upgrades doesn’t really look like I would expect of a V10. Where is all the low torque? Anyway, it’s far from the only car with a curve like that, and at least some of those I don’t have trouble with. Along that line I’ve fooled with gearing a lot. A wide range of final drives with gearing right to keep the engine in it’s peak range with minimal shifts. Even going so low that 1st is just a momentary condition, once it lights anyway, followed by instants second, which is now so low it should almost eliminate the need for first gear. And still it bogs down out of a hard slow turn before near instantly hitting the rev limiter.

To increase exit oversteer, one thing would normally be rear diff accel tightened up (higher numbers). But I’ve gone as high as 80s and still the problem remains. I’ve never had to go near that value before, maybe I just need to go further?

I’ve experimented with several tuning calculators, and their various custom tuning adjustments, nothing really seems to help. The best I’ve managed is increasing the spring rates quite a lot, mostly in the back. Also stiffer rear anti-sway since the chase cam seems to show the body roll significantly when this happens. And dampers, including rear bump increase. And also as a result of stiffer springs, even lowering it to the lowest ride height. I would expect the rear end on a V10 SRT10 to be super twitchy and act like it’s on ice in a full throttle 1st gear turn exit. But no, still that odd bog down behavior.

I’ve probably spent more time trying to figure this out on this Viper than on any other car that did this. But still can’t seem to get it sorted. It works best if I sort of nurse it around the corner without trying to finish out the rotation with throttle, and maybe that’s the line to pursue. If it were a real car, I would say the converter is too tight.

Any suggestions? What simple silly thing am I overlooking?

Sorry for the long post. But I’m trying to convey all the things I’ve tried as succinctly as possible so maybe someone can spot what I’m missing without having to go through a bunch of “turn up the rear diff accel” type answer when I’ve already tried that in various combinations with other things. I suspect I may not be the only person to experience this, and there is a “just do this to fix that problem” that I’ve not yet found or figured out…

Can you post your build please?

LOL, which one? I’ve done many. I started with stock, FT7, QT7, etc. I’ve used fine tuning features where available. I’ve made changes I thought would help, incrementally taken them to extremes, and even changed some opposite what I thought it should be. I even did something I almost never do, I downloaded a tune from Raceboy, and it really did no better than my best tunes.

It just seems that car is a dog coming out of those really sharp low speed corners. It seems to work best with stiff settings such as those I got from QT, but it still dogs when I would expect a Viper to just light the tires and switch ends. I guess the best way to describe what I think is going on is that the torque curve doesn’t look like a V10 to me, it’s too low and linear rising more like a small block Chevy. That combined with a rear heavy car, plus decent tires/surface, and no clutch to allow me to drive it out of corners more like a standing or slow start (no clutch and no way to loosen the converter), it’s just bogging the engine. And I guess that’s another relevant point, I use manual w/o clutch.

When I get a chance, I’ll load up one of the tunes I saved and post the results. I’ll try to find one that worked the best, but I quit saving tunes quite a while back in this process.

Yeah do so and I’ll have a look at it.

Thanks for the offer.

The last one I tried was Raceboy’s, so I couldn’t capture that. I must have had at least 30 attempts after I quit bothering to save anything. So this was saved way before my more extreme attempts to sort this out. After this (and maybe before?) I went way up on sway, both relatively balanced and super stiff on the rear. I’ve tried rear diff up to 100 (after my first post) and down to around 40 or so. Also messed around with damping, and all sorts of combinations.

It really just feels like it shuts down if you get any sort of oversteer on exit. More and more I’m thinking tuning isn’t going to fix this. I think it’s mainly just that torque curve. But it will sure light 'em up from a dead start, just not coming out of a tight slow turn, particularly that ~120* turn 7 on Sebring Club, but also on other to a lesser degree.

27.5/27.5 Tires
-1.5/-0.9 Camber
0.1/-0.2 Toe
5.3 Caster
12.38/19.39 Sway
785/982 Springs
3.3/3.9 ride height
178/340 Aero
70/30 Diff

Oh, and that’s in division. 649 hp, 609 ft/lb, 3253 lbs, 49%.

Are you using any assists? Particularly TCS.

Took it for a few laps on Mugello and yeah, it feels beefy.,wants to understeer like most cars in FM7. wery soft suspension too, with way too weak shocks. Added a racediff and
gave it a full oversteer-treatment, to see if this would eliminate the prob and then concider how to tune it back from there. But the car did still not oversteer, strange physics in this game.

Uploaded the tune, but here`s the basics if you want to fine-tune:

Tires: (untouched) 30/30 (=34.7 when heated up)
camber: F1.5 R2.0
ARB: F13.50 R12.00
springs: F585 R585 (updated)
shocs: F6.0-12.0(re) R6.0-12.0(re)
Forcedown: F287(max) R340(min)
Diff: 70/70

  • oops, adjusted the 5th & 6th gear to 0.85 and 0.73, final 3.08

Thanks, I’ll give it a try.

And yes, that was my finding too. Imagine that, a Viper that won’t oversteer with throttle. A big part of the problem appears to be the wrong torque curve for the V10. Just gutless at lower ranges.

Finally had the time to take the Viper for a spin and honestly didn’t have any of those issues mentioned by OP using QT 7 settings out of the box with Auto Aero (Full Aero).

I’ve tested on Yas North which has a very tight hairpin and had no understeer issues. Make sure to use the first gear through hairpins though with stock gears and stock power.

Used the Raceboy build. Tune is shared.

Here are the settings for reference:
Tire pressure 28.5 28.5
Gearing: stock
Camber -1.7 -1.4
Toe 0.0 0.0
Caster 5.0
Anti-roll bar 20.58 21.09
Springs 710.7 685.1
Ride height 4.0 4.7
Rebound 7.9 7.6
Bump 4.8 4.6
Aero 287 641
Diff acceleration 68%
Diff deceleration 34%

I’ll try that too. The stiffer it is, the less it happens. And the QT tune is on point in that regard. If I drive it perfect, then it works. But if I try to accelerate hard a bit early in an attempt to slip the back a bit, to finish the rotation for the exit line I want, as soon it starts to try to begin power oversteer, it feels like it just falls flat on its face. But if I drive it with more finesse and don’t try that power induced oversteer to adjust my exit line, everything else works great with the QT tune or Raceboy, and both worked better than FT7 on this car (even with fine tuning run up for sway and springs plus more oversteer otherwise). As mentioned, I think it’s just the motor bogging down, and not a successful tactic for some cars. Or possibly just something I haven’t learned yet.

And yes, what I’m trying to sort out is always on tight slow 1st gear corners. But even on faster first gear corners, you would think that it would be possible to throw the back end around in a V10 Viper easily enough. In fact, I would expect to need finesse to guard against such things, though that’s not been my experience with this car. Even when I completely screw up my overall gearing by keeping on incrementally lowering first to see if I can keep it in its power band, the back is almost locked in place.

Anyway, I’ll try to find time tonight to try these. Maybe it will work better with your tunes.

Thanks!

Well, it’s official, I’m a moron…

At some point I apparently activated TC, and forgot about it! Probably while fooling around with Hyper Cars or the like (I don’t care for them and almost never run them). I knew that the cars I had enjoyed were no longer working as well with the tunes I had previously liked, but I just thought the game had changed the physics model, and that I needed to adapt. I didn’t realize what was causing my problem until I happened to glance at my position on a leader board and noted the icon for TC, which I almost NEVER use, so I hadn’t even thought about it.

Now that I know it was left on, everything makes sense. The problem I experienced is EXACTLY what one would expect with TC on and getting heavy footed (as I tried harder and harder to slip the back for slight rotation on exit), as opposed to just using it minimally to help make dramatically over powered cars more manageable. I’m just embarrassed I didn’t notice it sooner.

So now I have to go back and fix the tunes to take out the extra oversteer inducing adjustments and readapt my driving style. to no TC Ugh. On the up side, clearing that stupid setting made everything come back alive again, with much better racing experience all around. Maybe that will help me get some of my times back where they were. All this time I just thought I was getting worse or everyone else was getting better, or I just hadn’t raced enough to adapt to new physics changes…

So anyway, just wanted to say thanks for trying to help, but there’s just no helping stupid…