I tried sending a Private Message to the Turn 10 members who usually post the contest threads, and got no response from either after a week of waiting.
Regarding the above, I have some theories regarding what is and isn’t allowed in a contest, but without it being in black and white there are always going to be people submitting livery designs without knowing that their design will not even be considered in the first place.
Let’s look at an obvious candidate: Marlboro-themed liveries.
This won’t get considered no matter what, as the Marlboro name is clearly displayed:
The question then is how far do you go in terms of “censoring” your own design?
Do you replace the “Marlboro” word with a generic barcode pattern, like the “official” in-game versions do:
Has it gotten to the point where any “white car with angled red lines” is considered ineligible?
Moving away from Marlboro, how are drink sponsors treated?
Alcoholic brands are presumably a no-go as this is an “all ages game”, yet liveries featuring energy drinks (which cannot be sold to people under the age of 16 in the UK) are fair game?
It’s not very clear and Turn 10 haven’t made any publicly visible comments as to what is and isn’t allowed in a contest, which is frustrating.
I think you’re right in saying T10 will not feature smoking nor drinking brands… which I think is a good thing… but it would be clearer if T10 mentions if that is indeed the correct thought behind it…
In the end your designs with those brands can still be downloaded liked and used… you just won’t be able to get it featured (so no 500k)… I like getting my designs featured… not because of the credit reward… but because the design will be seen by more users…
1
Are there any “forbidden” types of elements/logos that we should avoid having on any designs we enter? I am thinking about references to alcohol/tobacco brands in particular.
My guess is that certain brands are on a list that just will not get featured by T10…
2
If there are some “forbidden” logos as mentioned in [1], is our design still eligible if we replace them with “censored” versions? For example, if the engine cover logo was changed from this to this.
My guess is that if any of those certain brands is replaced your design would be more likely to be picked…
3
The game doesn’t let us edit descriptions of liveries after we have uploaded them to the Storefront. Are our designs still eligible if we provide you with car/file information but don’t have ____18 in the description?
I have rarely added the Fantasy# or Race# to my descriptions… but it says in the rules you must add it in “to make it easier for them to find”… or at least thats how I read it…
4
If we have to unpublish and re-publish designs in order to add a new description, will our overall download numbers decrease or are “deleted designs” counted in these stats?
In my experience… You will get uses from designs that you take down but have already been downloaded… they just won’t be viewable…
hope this helps… not (all) facts… but it’s what I’ve noticed…
My thought on these items is Marlboro has been done for 10 years (Forza Motorsport) and oft-repeated. Major brands are really a dime a dozen, but unique and inventive creations are one of a kind and refreshing.
Would we want 73 “A Team” liveries in every contest? They’ve been done, repeatedly and you can get your fill off them by looking in Designs.
To do another “Marlboro” livery perhaps in a new fashion with creativeness which is different might just spark new interest. Xerox is a copy machine, but so are Canon, IBM, HP, Toshiba, Kyocera, Knoica Minolta, Brother, Hammermill, etc. We don’t need to “Xerox” the entries continually.
Here are a few things I’ve learned over the years of watching and participating in their livery contests.
First things first … don’t expect any official response or clarification from anyone at T10/PG. They are notoriously bad about not responding to or communicating with the Forza community. Never have so far and I expect they won’t in the future. It’s a shame because the community is what keeps them in business and there are a lot of good ideas and opinions out there if they would take the time and effort to listen and interact.
Secondly, replica works or even liveries based on real-world cars with some slight modifications hardly ever win in the livery contests. They are looking for original and unique content. I have done some replicas in the past that were really spot-on and accurate and none of them ever won a contest. I believe the judges (whether intentional or not) are so geared towards finding something original that I won’t even enter replicas in livery contests any more.
Also, unfair as it may seem, I truly believe that there are some artists that get more favorable judging in the livery contests than others. Sometimes even when what they’ve entered may not be quite as ‘good’ as other entries. I won’t name any particular people … but if you go back through the archives of past winners … some names will show up more than others it seems.
Finally, in terms of what I might enter in the contests, I obviously stay away from any explicitly restricted content, but I also stay away from anything alcohol or tobacco related and anything that might even be slightly questionable material.
Unfortunately, this is something I have been aware of for a while, and it’s seemingly gotten worse in the last year or so. As somebody who works in the video game industry in Community Management myself I can make some guesses as to why Turn 10 staff act (or don’t, depending on your point of view) the way they do. As a loyal fan of the franchise however it is a frustrating experience.
I have tried using all of the available channels to seek the clarifications mentioned at the top of this thread, but predictably there has been no response. This thread is my last real shot and I’ve tried to be as respectful as possible in my request. If somebody from Turn 10 doesn’t clarify after all of this then there’s not much I can do, yes.
That’s an interesting observation, something to think about for sure.
That being said, the questions would still apply to original works.
That’s best left for another thread. I have my own opinions on this matter but I won’t discuss them here.
I’ve noticed this going on as well, but never wanted to say anything…just to avoid creating drama on the forums. But someone from PG or T10 needs to address this and clear the air up on this issue, that way we can have a little bit more transparency going on with the staff of PG and T10.
(Also I’d really appreciate if someone could address the first post I made in this thread..)
I’ve always had a response from LV if there’s ever an issue…
Anyhow
1
Are there any “forbidden” types of elements/logos that we should avoid having on any designs we enter? I am thinking about references to alcohol/tobacco brands in particular.
Tobacco and alcohol are allowed as long as you adjust said logos. Example of a few of mine from previous liveries.
These have all been entered and chosen as a win. Also iconic race liveries are fine such as the Marlboro stripes, the Rothmans livery etc…
2
If there are some “forbidden” logos as mentioned in [1], is our design still eligible if we replace them with “censored” versions? For example, if the engine cover logo was changed from this to this.
This is kind of answered in the above answer
3
The game doesn’t let us edit descriptions of liveries after we have uploaded them to the Storefront. Are our designs still eligible if we provide you with car/file information but don’t have ____18 in the description?
I know several people who have accidentally unshared a design, contacted the team and have had it put back in the featured spot, though to be eligible you need to have either Race18 or Fantasy19 in the description as written in the rules
4
If we have to unpublish and re-publish designs in order to add a new description, will our overall download numbers decrease or are “deleted designs” counted in these stats?
You’ll never loose stats even if you unshare your work. Though of course unsharing and republishing your work will no longer give you a higher download rate as it’s technically a new design compared to others that have been up for say a week.
I tried to ask them a question, and also didn’t ever get a response back. My question is this:
Say I don’t want to have my car “featured”, since I don’t share anything on the storefront, but still want to enter my into the Livery contest…can I still do so? Obviously putting “File name XYZ” in your contest entry description let’s people be able to find your particular livery on the storefront; but I’m guessing it also servers as a way to ensure that someone is posting a car/livery that is of THEIR own creation, and not simply stealing someone else’s design.
But since I don’t have anything whatsoever up on the storefront, what would stop someone from saying something like, “That design isn’t yours” or, “Prove that you actually created that livery, and didn’t download it.”? Would I have to post a screenshot of the car in my saved designs folder, or one of myself editing the actual design in game? I don’t want to take time out to attempt trying to capture some good pictures, and then just have someone tell me my entry is invalid, simply because they can’t tell whether or not it’s actually my design.
Hopefully that made a little bit of sense, and someone can help me figure this out…I’ve really been wanting to enter myself into one of these contests, but have been hesitant to do so, since the rules don’t address my particular issue/question.
Some interesting responses so far. Nothing official but at least there’s a mature discussion going on with good points being raised.
Now that I’m on a computer for a while I can start typing up some more thoughts.
I suspect there are too, and it’s perfectly understandable. It would be nice for the Rules to have a list of what brands should not be used in entries however.
The rules for a contest shouldn’t have to be ambiguous. A simple “if the following types of logos or images are included on your design, it will be deemed ineligible for a feature” would help.
Understandable, but as mentioned in my first response, how far should one go in terms of replacing said elements?
We can all make guesses but it shouldn’t be up to an entrant to guess what the rules of a contest are.
I normally put multiple numbers in the descriptions but the game(s) not having an “edit description” feature makes subsequent entries cumbersome, as unpublishing a design resets its stats.
This is more of a technical question than a rules one, which stems from the fact that descriptions cannot be updated after you post a design. For somebody that’s already hit Legend Painter status it’s not really an issue, but I could see some people with lower design numbers hesitant to remove a design if it make it harder for them to move up to the next status level. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, I’m mainly focusing on the unrwritten rules about censorship.
Originality is certainly the way to go (the majority of my works are originals also), I’m not advocating that every top design be a Marlboro, Rothmans, Fosters etc.
Doesn’t answer the question that if somebody were to use said brands in their design, whether or not that it would be deemed ineligible. Based on the rules as they are currently written, everything is fair game, but based on the results of said contests the case is different.
From the sounds of it you would want to enter your design in an attempt to win the 500,000 CR, but not have the design Featured afterwards.
This can be answered without any rules clarifications:
Enter your design as normal. If it wins, you will get an in-game message stating that CR has been awarded to you by Turn 10. Once you see that feel free to Unshare your design, as that also removes the Feature.
Lucky you
Is this an official guideline or your own interpretation?
This has always been the case sure interpretation.
But when I can constantly use logos on cars which which involve alcohol, cigarettes & gambling etc… and they win then I believe that rules into official guidelines.
Though I’m a little curious as to why you posted this now as design comps have been going on for a while now and you’re no stranger ;), , is it due a design of yours not being picked in a comp?
Also if you’re just trying to figure out what is good and bad then as long as you’re not going against the ToS and you’re changing letters of official companies around then you should be all good for entering
It’s something I’ve been wondering for a while, but never openly questioned. In fact I’ve started openly questioning more things about this series recently and the way that community interaction is handled. Part of that comes from working in a similar field and seeing more things from both sides.
It would be nice to have something in black and white, that’s all. I’ve already hit Legend Painter status in this game so I’m not too fussed about Features and Downloads anymore.
Something must have changed in between Forza Motorsport 5 and Forza Motorsport 6.
Even that quote leaves some things open to interpretation when it comes to entering designs for contests.
If content is meant to be “E-Rated”, then how is this design (for an “R-Rated” game) considered eligible enough for a victory?
The paint itself is expertly done and deserving of a feature (well done Friex as always), yet its Featuring implies that certain R-Rated brands are okay whereas others are not.
Unfortunately not, though is to be expected since this thread went up over the weekend.
Let’s hope somebody from Turn 10 chips in soon, though given their track record I have my doubts.
Apologies for chiming in like this as I’m not exactly a painter, but for a rated E (PEGI 3) game to be ok with highlighting a rated M (PEGI 18) game but God forbid a Guinness logo shows up is kind of hypocritical. Also noting the Halo 5 Mustangs we received in FM6; that game is rated T (PEGI 16). Even the Warthog in and of itself, that’s a vehicle from a rated T/PEGI 16 game (Halo 5) at best, or rated M/PEGI 18 game (every other Halo) at worst. I’d imagine the policies regarding alcohol, drugs, and gambling are tied into how each individual country allows advertisement of these items. What is considered ok in one country might be entirely illegal in another. Rather than block off features for some audiences and allow them in others, one fell swoop and no one gets anything. Rather than the MP4/4 coming with the censored and full Marlboro versions, we just got the censored one. How did Silk Cut liveries do for the Jaguar XJR-9 though? The censoring is likely why we got the Castrol-liveried version, but the Silk Cut designs were quite popular. Did any win livery contests?
I agree video games seem to muddy the water up though. Perhaps as long as no violence is shown? That RDR 2 design has none, and for the Halo 5 themed gift cars, Master Chief and Spartan Locke weren’t exactly depicted slaughtering the Covenant…
All my policy thoughts are just speculation of course. I unfortunately have no more information than you do.
Unfortunately in recent times self policing of some sponsors has to be implemented, some of these are so damn borderline I have to lose them if I want a replica considered for competition win.
Don’t get me wrong I understand the need to lose cigarette or booze sponsors. Betting/Gambling sites maybe less so, but again I can understand why…
As already mentioned I’ve had to change ‘Betsafe’ to ‘Be safe’, but that only seems to be allowed without the ‘star’. I’m now starting to go for ‘Be Fast’ instead.
Though what is slightly funny as in Forza 5 days, this won race livery quite happily…
… but now this would never get anywhere under the different moderation of later Forza competition versions.
Why? Betsafe - Betting site,
G-Pen - Vape,
Painted Woman - Perfume (naked silhouette of a woman! (on other side of this car)),
Anastasia Date.com & Asian Date.com - Dating site,
oh and Nicolas Feuillatte - Champagne.
That’s why any livery I enter into the livery competitions there will be a ‘true’ version and a ‘Pegi-safe’ competition one.
True version with, Betsafe, Anastasia Date.com & Asian Date.com & Nicolas Feuillatte.
Censored Pegi-safe.
A quote from the past…
“The games carry and “E” for everyone rating and this is kept in mind when selecting items to feature because featuring does push these liveries to users of all ages. It sounds like you have a good idea of what should not be on a car if you want it featured, so listen to what you are saying to yourself. The judges can disqualify a car for any reason if they feel the car is in violation in anyway with the Xbox Live Terms of Service or does not fit the “E” game rating. If you think some of your decals are not “E” for Everyone, then I would suggest that you do not put them on a car that you trying to get featured in the future.”
