Opinions about Homologation

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First off, My opinions.

I have to say I was really looking forward to see this. especially when it was obviouls attempt to remove the most profound leaderboard cars, and make more cars competetive, and make more cars more competetive, At least in their own division,

Now I havnt been looking at leaderboards, and at this stage it’s too early to say anything about how well that successed, and of they did that is great.

How ever there is couple divisions which in my opinion are way too restrictive to the cars in those divisions.
So far I have ran in to wto road cars which were extremely fast for their respecive divisions, Ford Focus RS -17 has restrictor plates and that’s the only engine “upgrade” or should I say “degrade” you can use in the engine, As the division restriction is 300hp and the car has 350hp as stock.
How ever the car’s performance is still rather good.

Other car I ran in to today was Renault 5 Turbo, and this is the pinnacle of things gone wrong.
The car has to use “Street” tires, Ok, But upgrading to street tires it overshoots the PI limit. Ok there is couple ways to bring that PI down, Heavy rims, large rims, Wings, And restrictor plate.
For Autocross the restrictor plate could be useful, But any track which has any sort of straight it’s so limited with it’s power (And possible downforce/Drag issues) that it’s just not really competetive,
You cant really fit suspension, due the PI restrictions so the car doesnt really handle trough the corners, and it get’s outdragged on straights with other cars of it’s division. which have had the option to add more power.

What I’m trying to say is that some divisions have way too restrictive rules. And therefore the best car seems to end up being the one that get’s closest to maximum allowed HP even in handling tracks. at least in lower tiers (I havn’t had anything above B class so far) Therefore this leads to all low PI divisions vest cars beoing (most of the time) the ones that start at the lowest possible PI, Add tires if division requires, and then add as much power as possible, and if there is any room after that some handling parts (Weight, ARB, Diff, Possibly even suspension.)

All in all, I see the classic overcountering problem arising again, if you need to hit a nail, you dont need to use a wrecking ball.

TL:DR Division restrictions might be a good thing, but too much restrictions ruins things.

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I don t mind with the homologation thing, however it needs to be better handled. You can play with the build within the restrictions, speed build will be the norm now in the lower class with non adjustable suspension.

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I was just coming to this section to check or post a homologation thread… I am enjoying it quite a bit if I’m honest and this is coming from someone who used to enjoy modifying and tuning low class cars to compete in higher class races. It gives it a more serious and realistic feel to how it would be like in real life and I don’t understand all the whining. If only people would just give it a chance rather than spitting the dummy out at the first sign of change I hope T10 stick it out for a while and if they do go back to PI system keep the homologation also.

Following on from that I’d love to know what other tuners are doing with homologation. First few cars I let the game auto homologate and tune (what I can) from there. The last few cars I’ve reset to default and modified myself in a more specific way. I’m feeling the latter cars are better ATM but not been able to test it against the LB yet. I’d love to hear what other tuners are up to and what there thoughts on this is.

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As a leveller, it won’t work. I think that about says it all. Even if they don’t reintroduce searchable leaderboards, the community events will soon show it is only of any interest for MP. It is also death to Tuning.

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Well that was bit more harsh than I expected.

Now LB’s I dont really care, Never did and I dont think never will.

Death to Tuning, Well I kinda see what you mean, Many of my favourite cars are now in the “no mans land” called “Forza specials”, which I predict is not going to have a proper lobby, so good bye my Limo, Campevan, Vandura, etc… you might be forgotten.

I have always been known for driving cars that are really “weird” and being competetive with them, That has been why I have loved Forza always, Also I have loved that I can pit my muscle car against Japaese tuner car, and Italian Supercar, and the matches have been realivaly even. Now if my prediction is right I’m starting to lose interest quite fast.

How ever, If there will be lobby’s that are mainly modified by PI, but still have some slightly looser restrictions. Then this might turn out to be awesome game.

What it comes to realism, I can kinda understand that aspect too, I dont quickly remember any racing series where you could have Ferrari F40, Chevrolet Chevelle, and Nissan 200SX on the track on same class at the same time, and it would be great if we can keep these Spec lobby’s giong on.
The issue is that some of us, (Not saying Majority even though I would want to) love to change their car to every race, if we end up with these spec lobby’s you either be stuck whole evening in what essentially is 2 cars, or 1 car with 2 different tunes. Or you change lobby every 1-4 racesand that I do se as an issue.

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Same here, I loved using the underdog vehicles. I really miss the class system. Just as your signature says, I would have earned your respect. I’m the guy who uses SUVs to get on the podium, and besides actually building and tuning cars, that was the most fun aspect of the game for me…sadly, it’s gone and that’d really disappointing. I have been trying homologation and it just isn’t what I was thinking it would be. Now I feel as though we lost a great system and gained a broken system. I’m not saying this to be harsh or rude, this is just my opinion. Hopefully we will get classes back.

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It at least adds a new twist to things, I have to give Turn10 a bit of a thumbs up for being brave enough to try it, rather than the old stuff we have always been used to. Trying to get all cars to the top of a class for the sake of a leaderboard was always a bit weird.

As to death of tuning, maybe not. Possibly the tenths a good tune can give you or the consistency in a long race might be the fine margins that make a difference.

I’ll give it a bit of time. It will probably work for some areas better than others.

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I’m not happy with it at all. I always turn factory cars into World Cup Challenge cars and other race cars. A great example is the 2017 ZL1 that I turned into GT4.R race car in Horizon 3. Now I can’t build my race cars anymore because of restrictions. They should allow classes and open racing again. I don’t care about the leader boards so much. I just want to race my cars the we always have.

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Homologation as a concept is fine and we saw it in other forms in previous Forzas to different extents.

What is a problem is that it’s the only option available. We need more options. Homologation + Class based would really be a lively way to open things up. It could even be an option with races in career, choose if the series is strictly Homologation rules set or open class restricted only.

The other bit that is very restrictive is that cars can only belong to one division and then each division only has one Homologation rule set.

So it means there are actually less ways to build a particular car than there used to be. You pretty much build to one rule set. So if the car has big potential to make big power by an engine swap or aspiration conversion, that is actually not useful at all if the car has to have restrictor plates fitted to homolgate. When will you ever get to enjoy the potential the car has?

I dunno, I think one of the biggest problems we face is that T10 don’t actually seem to play the game alongside the community and therefore continue to blunder with design choices. They just don’t get the different ways we use this game.

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While the homologation idea is good in thought, there could definitely be some more leeway to it, because out of every vehicle I’ve tried I’ve found two that are relatively weird builds that use homologation plates. Now all credit is due considering if you swap the 3.0L v8 racing engine, you have the option to put on the homologation restrictors, which is fantastic because you can still have some sort of fun building it, but it doesn’t mean near as much if everything isn’t built to a certain class or can’t fit within homologation purely because it’s performance numbers are nowhere near its limits while still hitting the PI cap.

Like I said I’ve found two so far that actually take advantage of this, being the new civic type r with the aforementioned 3.0L (with the plates it makes 285 with the max for the class at 300) and minded it needed heavier wheels, a heavy cage, and a rear wing but it makes its way down to c/500. And the other being the Donkervoort GTO with the 3.0l swap (power stock is 375, homologation plates bring it to 285 and with leftover PI could get closer to the 350 mark but if done right weighs in at only 999 pounds) but sometimes the homologation standards are quite restrictive, allowing creative freedom within the rules but then narrowing it down to such a fine line where performance wise in the class it’s not worth it.

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I personally am enjoying it, but I do see the need to open the restrictions or at least have multiple per car. That would shake things up a bit.

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I personally don’t like this asI think it takes the fun out of building a non LB car.

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I still have mixed feeling about this, yet they tend to be more negative than positive. I personally do veery little Multiplayer, unless they are Private in nature, so, having these “in-between” classes equalized builds really do not do it for me. Yet, I do get the point about helping many that just want to have a good enough build and spend countless hours in MP. To W4RLOCK’s point, the builds really are useless for competing anyway, then, I enjoy building cars and squeeze everything I can out of a build (ask HLR Moss). So, this does take that element away for me. Though I can still build to top of class builds. And, I am sure all my Homologated builds will be better than any out-of -the-box one.

PRKid
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I am enjoying these narrow categories so far. But I have been assuming that we’ll also get the full A-B-C Classes to build to at some point in the near future. If we don’t…than it IS too restrictive and takes a lot of the fun out of building and tuning. Like Juggernaut, I enjoy pitting my musclecars against all comers. I like racing multiple cars, and versions of cars, in Leagues and Hoppers. I don’t want that gone!

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My opinion:

I think homologated hoppers are a nice fit for the game. I think the system needs to be tweaked, though. It seems that the power limit on most divisions is so high, that a lot of cars can get by without having to worry about weight reduction or tuned suspension. It’s going to be had to beat a 300 horse power Civic in a mid C class car, and when you get into other cars in the same division, the factory weight severely limits you to fa less power. It’s almost like the PI system doesn’t match the homologated restrictions in a lot of cases. The 70 Camaro can scream around a track at 145 miles per hour, while other cars simply can’t get the parts needed to do this.

I haven’t been able to find a join-able private lobby, so I’m assuming they don’t exist. This is going to be hard for a lot of us that are returning, from the days of ol’… They had these lobbies, they got rid of them, then they came back… and now they’re gone again? Is there a reason for this? If players could host lobbies, then you could still have ABCD lobbies, and the hoppers could be for homologated competition. It’s a super simple, and executable concept. Oh, and either make game chat work, or let us stay in parties. That too…

At the end of it all, I think it’s a new system, it’s a decent enough idea, and it’s worth trying. Why not, right?

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I’m not really sure what they accomplished by doing the homologation.

I am stuck racing with the car basically as it comes from the dealer. I can’t tune it or mod it. The car is just bleh.

In all racing sports, cars come basically the same, and the car’s setup (tune), sets drivers apart on the track. However, in this racing simulation game, we aren’t allowed to tune the cars. Everyone is stuck driving the same Honda Civic equivalent with no control what so ever on how the car handles. Seems like we are all going to be setting 15 minute laptimes with out any room for improvement on the track.

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You can remove the homologation parts fitted by the game, Then use the parts that you want to use, as long as you keep in with division restrictions. In most cars you can use Differential which the game never fits, but it’s PI free, And ARB’s barely ever cost more than 2PI and those are the 2… well 3 most influencal parts on how the car handles.
Race suspension and brakes are also relatively cheap, and using sport brakes sometimes even cost less PI than stock brakes.
Also the autohomologated buids often use parts like Flywheel and Clutch which are PI hogs that dont really do anything (Unless you are running without clutch, or automatic transmission)

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The formula for auto-homologated builds also includes stock rims and no aero. The only adjustable part I have seen is the occasional sport tranny.

The biggest problem with homologation is obviously that the divisions are based on abstract body/design types, not actual performance potential. The best example I have found of this in my very limited exploration thus far (and I keep talking about it), is the Lotus Elise being consigned to the Track Toys division, although I am sure there are plenty of others.

Similarly, the homologation restrictions will inevitably favour particular cars within a division, because guess what, not all cars are created equal. I’m convinced the PI system provided more latitude for balancing weaknesses and strengths across the board by allowing you to play with grip and horsepower, two of the most important (if not the most important) tools in the tuners toolbox.

This is what I meant when I said that they were death to tuning - not just that auto-homologation had the potential to do tuners out of their market.