They set the bar of player expectations with previous titles so I’m not sure why having at least that same level of expectation for subsequent iterations is so difficult to understand.
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Because a downward spiral is just that, with how few people spoke up about/even noticed the things during FH4’s life that are finally being looked at in this game of course they were going to carry on.
FH5 in my opinion is a worse game than FH4, but I don’t need to tell you or any regular on here which one of the two I give the most flak.
When I seen live service, more bugs than the previous 3 titles put together, reliance on FOMO and the change in general tone (silly dances, ridiculous clothes, obnoxious annoying caricature characters etc) my expectations for FH5 dropped substantially.
Of course in theory you’d expect improvements, but in practice the signs were there in plain sight during FH4 that the quality + general care was going down like an X-class Jesko hurtling down La Gran Caldera.
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That is completely fair. Tbh I wasnt really that big of a fan of when they introduced all of the character customization too. Though their intentions were good trying to help others express themselves. Alot of the younger players I have talked too as well as my younger people in my family love it. While the older community members who known Forza for how they used to be are a bit iffy on it. While doing so they made it so its easier and easier each title for any racer regardless of age. One of the big reasons I play alot of the older motorsports due to how unforgiving it was and how hard they made you work for it. Really hope the upcoming motorsport did take notes from older titles like they had mentioned. Nobody would ram because if they did it would be worthless because they wouldnt earn anything due to damages upon their car. Really Really hope it comes back… as unless reported rammers already escape. Damage Costs took away this Ramming fests in alot of these older titles. It still existed but made a dramatic impact as they had no benefit of doing so.
FH5 is sort of that safe place where I tend to relax and hang with friends. Though the bugs did make it a bit of an issue. They are slowly looking up. I mean hey convoys are much bettter than they used to be. That being said I still am drawn to the older titles due to that sense of accomplishment. That feeling as soon as the everybody is a winner came out in FH4 I immediately saw where it was going. I wont hate them for it. Sadly, its a smart move on their end as typically games of this era that are easier to get into are easier to promote sales and such. Though I prefer a harder gameplay experience, I can still find enjoyment when playing with friends and such. Sorry to hear about your experiences with it though.
Though kinda went off track about the recycled car discussion and I apologize completely.
The other option I’d prefer for the recycled cars would be for PG to just say outright ‘Right everyone sorry we have to do this but we removed a portion of cars from the previous title to fill in the spaces in-between the genuinely new cars being added, this gives us more time to work on them and gives you the players something else to add to your garage every week if you already own all the base game cars.’
If they came out and said something along those lines I’d respect them + the playlist a lot more even though I wouldn’t agree with it.
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Ah yes, the Nizzan Z. My favorite car in this update.
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You’re right that “recycling” of content isn’t new to the series but the problem is that it reached entirely new level with FH5. I’ve analysed this process by comparing post-launch cars in FH4 and FH5 in another thread some time ago, perhaps you’d be interested in taking a look (and we can continue discussion there if you wish 
)
As for the new Nissan Z - I’m very happy to have this car in the game (especially as free content), it drives and sounds wonderfully. I’m sure visual customization parts will come later 
And it seems to have fully operational dashboard this time, unlike Lamborghini Sian 
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Streethunter had a body kit made for it and released already if im not mistaken, would be nice to atleast have that one but I agree the car is still very new
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It’s the ingenuity of it all amidst a lack of continued passionate development that just keeps grating core players. It makes this lazy drip-feed of previous content all the more infuriating. As someone else said earlier, they don’t even have the stones to admit it as such and tell us why it’s a necessity.
Check out the latest developer live stream from MS/Asobo for Flight Simulator from a few days ago. It is 90(!) minutes of unscripted interaction where the developers present all the things they are working on, without hyperbole and fake excitement and then they have a REAL Q&A where uncomfortable questions are asked by users and they are frank about where they failed and what they are doing to make amends.
That is how this needs to be done! That is how you take care of a hallowed franchise!
PGG did NOT invent the original Horizon concept, which is what made this franchise.
PGG did NOT create the ForzaTech engine, which ensured the game was looking top-notch graphically for many years.
The way PGG is maintaining the franchise is a farce, it’s a fake middle-manager driven, Gamepass metrics-scraping, minimal budget death spiral and the captain (M.B.) has already left the ship.
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Isn’t it ironic (& disheartening) how such an interaction (which should be nothing more than the expected norm for such iconic franchises) becomes amazing when compared to the perpetuating state of what has been delivered for FH5 in similar context?
And the worst part, as others have alluded to, is how seemingly easy it could be to provide “mental oxygen” to those locked in a vacuum through simple acknowledgment, engagement & proper feedback.
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“T10/PGGs though they try there hardest to get content out to us”
Thaaaats just objectively untrue.
Also. yes, recycling content has been a problem in the past two games especially. But just because you’re just acknowledging it, doesnt mean it hasnt been a problem people including myself have complained about for years. Its far from something that people are just taking issue with now.
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Might not have a body kit but this Z is a great drive! The new Z is not a disappointment! In A-Class RWD it’s very capable as one of the best no-aero, no-powerbuild RWD cars out there. This tune is a RWD grip tune. No ugly forza aero. Very easy car to drive and it’s fast! I ran about 5 trials with this tune and it’s a consistent winner placing first overall and no worse than 2nd.
Share Code: 511-629-990
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Another 2023 Z A800 RWD Tune
Did a I6 motor swap and turbo upgrade. Settled on rally tires. Ran some trial races and did some laps at HMC that avg high 1:06’s. Car still has a lot of grip. Stats are below along with share code.
Share Code: 179-514-325
540HP
0-60 3.53
Lat Gs 1.16
HMC 1:06:8
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I will have to try some Z tunes. I enjoyed loading up a 240SX tune I hadn’t raced with before and entering the trial “blind”.
In the rivals event I took a couple of turns in the stock Z and immediately smiled and said ,“yep. It’s got the hacked handling”. I started deliberately driving it worse, entering too wide or narrow and it still makes the corners and corrects itself to get the power down. Honey. 
I’m still enjoying the new Nissan Z but one thing concerns me: only two manufacturer colors to choose from.
I’ve checked Nissan’s website and there are nine options (e.g. the great looking Rosewood Metallic), so I wonder why we have only two colors in the game?
It seems to be a progressing trend with new cars in FH5 which I don’t like. I hope we’ll get more options with upcoming cars (or maybe even more colors for the Nissan Z with the next update)
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Why put the effort in to making colours for your cars when the community does it for you. Or making races, you can just use ‘community created races’… Theyve really been trending in a “you do the work” direction lately
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Or… more than likely scanned them when there was only 2 colors… Upon initial release Ikazuchi Yellow and Serian Blue (probably spelled that one wrong) were the only available colors for the Z
“you do the work”
It wouldnt logicially make sense otherwise. It wouldnt be a “you do the work” situation… as these manufacturers use Forza to help boost their sales. I can almost bet that they scanned them upon initial release (only the blue and yellow colors existed then) as otherwise Nissan would want to showcase the other manufacturer colors as well.
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I would doubt that manufacturers gain more than 1% of their sales figures from video game exposure. If it’s even that much gain. If manufacturers saw a significant sales increase from video game exposure there wouldn’t a licensing issue. There would be a sales of advertising space for manufacturers to buy in to get their cars included in the games.
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There would be, because they do see a significant sales increase from Video Game exposure already, see Toyota for example, they partnered up with Polyphony Digital to do a whole cup based around their newest Sportscar at the time, the Supra. They wouldn’t have done it if they didn’t see any exposure potential in that.
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IMO the licensing has more to do with manufacturers wanting to have control about how their cars get displayed than with extra income or marketing in relation to sales. The percentage of people buying a new Supra because of a game is presumably not noticeable in the overall sales figures. BMW even had a free Sim called “BMW M3 Challenge” produced for the release of the 2007 M3 Coupe (E92) and if this would have had a noticable impact on sales you can be sure they would have continued that route.
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There’s a much more likely reason, the game sold really really well and definitely outsold Gran Turismo and Forza combined… yeah no it didn’t, the game was free and probably mid-terrible, they didn’t make money or reach on the game, while other games pay them for the BMW license.