You’re not comparing apples to apples. You’re comparing skill vs transmission.
In essence, you’re saying walking is faster than riding a bicycle because you don’t know how to ride a bike. You have two variables - skill and transportation method (apples and oranges). While everyone else is telling you, riding a bicycle is faster than walking (which presumes equal skill) - apples to apples.
Skills being equally proficient, the bicycle is clearly faster than walking. Your assertion is incorrect because skill isn’t what’s being evaluated in this discussion. The transmissions are being evaluated - so proficient use ought be an assumed constant.
You’re less proficient with manual w/ clutch, but proficient use of manual w/ clutch is objectively faster than proficient use of automatic. So anyone who practices manual w/ clutch will eventually be better than they were with automatic, because manual w/ clutch is inherently faster.
As a gaming concern, Forza provides an advantage to manual skills - so manual w/ clutch, ABS off, TCS and STM off… are all generally faster options if you’re capable of doing so. If you’re not faster with them off, it’s not because they’re not faster, it’s because your skills are inadequate to use them. There really is no “what’s fast to you” option. Manual is faster. Your skills prevent you from using it. When you learn to use it, you’ll be faster.
(that’s not a knock on you, just trying to point out how you’re comparing different things - skills vs transmissions)
Skills being equally proficient, as you put it, doesn’t mesh with the ‘fast to you’ statement I was countering. With that statement, individual variables such as skill and hardware perforce come into play. I even acknowledged that manual with clutch was technically faster while pointing out that in practice it isn’t faster for me (or necessarily any given person).
Would you say walking is faster than driving “to you” because you don’t know how to drive a car? I understand what you mean, but I’m trying to reframe your mind.
You just need to learn how to use it. The sooner you suck it up and tough it out to learn it, the sooner you’ll be faster too. Seriously, stop using automatic. Run lower class cars in manual w/ clutch. Map your “A” button to the clutch, and on every shift slide your thumb from A to X or B. It will seem difficult for a little bit as your brain adapts to the new task, but you’ll pick it up faster than you think.
In the lower class cars you have all day to think about shift points. As it becomes second nature, you move up to faster cars.
You’re only slowing your own development by staying with automatic.
The brain is an amazing thing. I think the fastest way to learn is to jump in the deep end. Take a C or B class rear wheel drive car, turn off all the assists, run manual with clutch and run a lot of laps at Brands Hatch in the rain. You’ll make a ton of mistakes. It will be frustrating initially, but sooner than you think you’ll be FORCED to use more gentle inputs. You’ll have braking down… you’ll be properly rolling on the throttle instead of mashing it… and you’ll get shifting down - all without wasting so much time learning one at a time.
Then, the next time you run somewhere in the dry, you’ll feel like you have grip for days.
No with practice it would be faster for you and any other person. This is still a skill based game and the more one consciously practices and works to improve the better they will get. Obv you have much more practice with auto. if you had equal amounts of practice in manual/manual with clutch you would be quicker.
Nope. You’re just being hard headed which is fine. Play the game as you want.
I know multiple folks of various ages, injuries, and abilities and they do just fine. If they can do it (ive heard/seen some pretty sad stories), you can.
Has nothing to do with being hard headed, and everything to do with having a hard time juggling gears even before throwing a pointless extraneous button into the mix. I will forget to shift, I will shift the wrong direction, or I will shift too far - and that’s before trying to work in a clutch that there’s no good button to map to. And if I get the shifting done, I still might lose it in a turn I otherwise wouldn’t because the manual shifting sometimes makes the grip weird. In all the times I’ve played around with manual in Forza, I’ve gotten a slightly better lap time twice and it wasn’t worth the effort.
You’re describing everything I went through learning it and i was far from willing. Only reason i did learn was because it was holding me back and i wanted to be faster. At the time i was barely a top 2000-3000 at my peak. It sucks and it’s not fun at first. Lost count how many times I spun out from screwing up the shifting. It takes a while to really learn but if you do try it again, do it in a lower class car you really like and on a track you also really like. I remember it being harder to learn when the car was really quick.
And yes it is messing with the grip due to you running at likely a higher part of the power band. Basically you may have been used to running 375 HP but with manual you may be hitting 475 HP. A bit extreme I know but I’m trying to describe the additional power that you’re missing.
IRL You can pretty much shift any car without a clutch, if you know the car very well, have a good ear for the synchros if they are audible, and know generally what rpm range you need to be in for a given gear. Not recommended, but it can be done efficiently. As for this game giving a boost for using a clutch. I personally think it’s silly because IRL it’s just the opposite, but I understand it requires that you push an additional button for the clutch requiring more effort and input from the player. So in that regard I get it.
Manual w/ clutch is generally faster due to the game rewarding players who “put more work” into it. Doesn’t make sense, especially with high-end cars but it is like it is. The same story with ABS which is incredibly weak in this game compared to the top-notch ABS-systems in real-life.
My main issue with the manual w/clutch is the location of the clutch button. I would like it to be the RB button, so its right above the gas, seems a more natural position for someone like me. Still fun to use on some of the older cars that don’t have a lot of gears and don’t require a lot of shifting.
Depends on the car you are running. As a rule, the faster the car, the less need there is and Manual With Clutch actually becomes a hindrance. Cars that don’t like Manual With Clutch for example would be: Indy Cars, Modern F1, Modern LMP, Forza P2 cars, Forza Gt etc, essentially modern race cars with very good clutch and gearbox systems. A couple of rules I go by is: When in doubt, use Manual With Clutch, as you do get a boost in acceleration if the car suits it and if the car has a fully upgraded clutch and gearbox, stick with manual.
By no means an “expert” on clutch things, but on my Thrustmaster TX there is a setting (not in-game) for the Mode button and “A” used in combination (blinking light) to invoke the auto-clutch. It does need to be set each time you use the wheel, however, because it is not recorded either in the Thrustmaster Control Panel or the in-game Options.
And one of the things my late wife arranged for our 25th anniversary over five years ago was driving a full-race prepared Porsche 911 GT3 at the Las Vegas Exotics track in Las Vegas. It had the paddle shifting with auto-clutch. The ride-along instructor told me he would call out the shift points. After the second turn, he asked if I’d driven that type vehicle before because he was going to stop calling the shifts. I said my only experience with paddle shifting was in Forza Motorsport. LOL!
Apparently I was doing very well because on one lap he spotted a Lambo on the straight and told me to go get him. He was doing 140mph, and the instructor said, “You blew his doors off!” LOL! After my laps were done, they wouldn’t let me keep the car.
After years of manual, I am a recent convert to manual with clutch on the controller. It is faster, and the little bit of ‘torque-snap’ you get on some cars feels terrific.
I have assigned clutch to the A button and have sent handbrake up to the left shoulder button. Changing gears is just a matter of pushing two buttons together. Either X,A or B,A. No problem for a thick fingered man. Haha.
Forgot to mention that, in the lower divisions full of manual cars with clunky transmissions, if you use plain manual you’ll get mauled online. Using the clutch is that much faster.
However, what frustrates me is that Forza doesn’t seem to reward “proper” use of the clutch. People will grind through gears treating the car as if it had a sequential transmission, which is horribly unrefined, but they don’t lose anything in the process. I find going for smooth shifts more fun, myself.
For downshifts I just heel-and-toe like in a real car… In the controller it’s very easy to do and doesn’t require much finesse save for a few older cars.
Manual without clutch is my go to. I could never grasp powering out of a corner accurately while pressing an extra button and timing the on, off, back on throttle movement without causing any wear. Im definitely faster with manual than automatic though due to engine braking, or if im going wide in a corner, drop a gear and it tightens the car up.
I’m over 50 and have arthritis developing at the base of my right thumb, so using it repetitively for the common A,X,B mapping was a non-starter for me. I used manual only on the shoulder buttons until I got an elite controller. On it I have clutch on both forward paddles and gears on the rear paddles. One finger to hit both paddles on a side at the same time and it’s become second nature to paddle shift this way with or without the clutch enabled. Being able to map the controller this way is the only reason I got an elite controller and I’ll never go back if I can help it.
In the Subaru Spec League, the speed boost is dramatic I’ve only done a few races, but each start has been those with clutch outrunning everyone else to turn 1 and I’m not seeing too many people using a clutch in enthusiast. There does seem to be a point around S class where the benefit becomes negligible, at least for me, but I can’t tell if its actually a hindrance in the upper class cars to still use a clutch.
Little bit of truth and testing.
Manual with no clutch for sequential and paddle shifter double clutch cars. Why? Those cars realistically dont have clutch pedals 99% of the time.
Manual with clutch for cars that are stick shifted due to the fact the car posses a clutch pedal.
How do people not know this by now? Its been like this since like forza 2. You change you transmission difficulty based on the actual car’s transmission.
EDIT: the reason for doing what is stated above is because the car shifts faster if you have the correct transmission setting.