There’s a word from Jeremy Clarkson I use to define Assetto Corsa: dreary.
Project CARS is a lot better in this regard but the reason why is the menu music. The engine sounds of the cars very rarely help their cause. The new Porsche pack is pretty bad when it comes to sounds for example, all the cars I’ve seen in videos (Carrera GT, 911 Carrera RSR, 991 RSR) sound better in Forza 7 than in Project CARS 2.
Have the 911 RSR’s sounds been updated since this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99lZcxfwTNc&feature=youtu.be
I drove the 991 RSR in Forza 7 during the Phil Spencer Bounty Hunter challenge. 1:1 the real thing.
In PC2 it sounds very weird and sometimes doesn’t even resemble a 911.
Forza is a simulation of driving a car around a race track.
If you believe that it’s an arcade game, I challenge you to go to an actual arcade and play a real arcade game.
Maybe Forza doesn’t sweat some of the finer details to the same degree as Project Cars, Assetto Corsa, or iRacing, but if I wanted that experience I’d get one of those titles.
Forza needs to be tightened up in a lot of ways, but at it’s core it’s an amazing title that no longer has a competitor since GT got all serious. Forza needs to stay Forza, it just needs to be better at being what it is.
I’m very happy with Turn 10’s simcade approach of the Forza Motorsport franchise. It’s good for me to have a break sometimes from the serious iRacing or Project CARS 2 racing and just play around and slide around a track a bit for fun. Also, the simcade approach is what made Forza popular. If you want it to be a full sim, it will be a lot less popular, meaning Turn 10 won’t get as much money from it, meaning we will lose a lot of cars and tracks from the game. There is a lot wrong with Forza 7, but the physics ain’t it.
I feel like Forza needs to step up its game in terms of car models ingame. While the cars in Forza Vista mode look great and i don’t of course expect this level of detail while racing, Project Cars and Assetto Corsa to me have the better looking car models. Also for some reason FM7’s cars tend to look a bit matte which looks unrealistic. Maybe to save resources on consoles? But then why do my cars on PC look matte too?
Another thing where the Motorspor series needs to step up are the trees and overall foliage. Games like GT Sport and Project Cars 2 use this technique of having 3D trunks with layers of foliage that rotate towards you while you drive. To be honest, i find this looks really good and is at least better than the X-foliage we have currently in FM7.
And the lighting engine needs a step up, FH3 runs on the same engine but for some reason their lighting looks much better. Light sources pop more, brake lights, taillights etc. The whole game has more contrast to it whereas Motorsport feels always a bit pale and dim.
I love GT Sport. and think it as a half sim racing game. But sadlly forza is not even close which is much way to sim. So since I played so much series of Forza, I got hate it a little. Hope this series could be much sim like. And keep all this fantasy cars which GT sport couldn’t have.
As I have posted in other topic areas Turn 10 needs to get rid of the extra fluff and then use the extra gaming program space to improve Forza. Areas like Graphics, AI, Driving Dynamics, Engine Sounds, etc (as the list of improvements can be as long as the list of what Turn 10 can get rid of from Forza Motorsport (the fluff that is not needed In my opinion). Through recent updates the game is coming along, and has a ways to go. I have GT Sport, F1 2018, NASCAR Heat 3, Project Cars and see many improvements for each one I believe Turn 10 needs to read/listen to the comments to do their comparison study and then make improvements
honestly think this would be a terrible idea, Forza is Forza, changing the DNA won’t increase the player base, if anything will make it worse, though I do think adding things like qualifying, actual night and day cycles and a more robust driver rating system will massively improve the game across all aspects. I’ve tried to play project cars 2 many times since it came out and honestly it’s complete trash, unless you can buy high end kit the game simply isn’t a good enough product. With Forza you turn the game on and you can race, I can race with my mates of all skill levels and have a competitive and fun time, there’s no point in going full sim to accommodate the snobs and completely wrecking the fabric of what makes Forza, Forza
This discussion is on going and will never get resolved. Forza is a happy medium between arcade and sim and a great pick up and race game. This will never lean towards more sim because quite honestly most can’t drive a real sim with a controller and making Forza more sim will lose customers and the complaints will rise more. Qualifying would be nice for league races and they need to add day/night times with variable weather which can be done.
I’ve played pcars2 and it’s a nightmare with the controller for most cars and that’s as much sim that you’re gonna get as well as AC. And how many people do you see on those??? Not many. I also have pcars2 on the pc with the whole setup and the game is made for wheels hands down. So everyone asking for more sim will be more disappointed, now more features is a different story but Forza is getting better now from what it was. If you want a good description of why more sim isn’t a good idea look at the hardcore LBs, hardly anyone runs with no assists and that’s the most sim you’ll get in Forza.
It seems that Forza Motorsport is going to continue to walk the line between the casual and hard core racer, and after 7 games; 3 of which seemed to get further from what I’m looking for, I’m just going to move on. I wanted Forza to become more serious as a racing title, because I really enjoyed the franchise. But now Turn 10 could do what ever they want. Make a game where you have no control of the cars, for all I care.
Forza’s base physics are actually quite good. It has a decent suspension model, great tyre flex & deformation model, good Force Feedback for wheels & is second to none on a controller, I could go on & on, but I’ll re-iterate again, how are you going to accurately simulate 800 cars? Especially when every car also has tuning & a very extensive upgrade system? The short is, unless you purge the car count & spend days refining each car to get as close as it can to its real life counterpart, you can’t. All you’ll get by doing this is a huge community backlash akin to Foza Motorsport 5, where we had a fistful of tracks, just 200 cars & pretty much no features compared to both Forza Motorsport 4 or what we have now in Forza Motorsport .
If you want Forza Motorsport to become more of a SIM, you don’t need to revolutionize the physics system or strip down the car count & start again. What they need to do is add small details & refine certain existing aspects. Stuff like DRS, KERS, KERS & Hybrid modes will go a long way. Different tyre compounds, qualifying, more tuning options, brake fade & maybe more damage options. Actually simulating stuff like active aero. The new collision system is a very good start to this.
In short, it has an extremely good base to work on. All it needs is refining.
Really? Based on the tuning menus I call the physics about as close to vanilla as they can be. They work and as far as saying you are driving a car it works however everything in this game is boilerplate, and a push towards sim is never going to happen. Regarding getting active aero to work, how about just making aero/draft work in general nevermind active aero. Cant even get opponent distance measured in time… nevermind the rest of the dreams.
The tuning menu being basic doesn’t mean the actual physics themselves are basic. I’d like more options in the tuning menu as well like anckerman angle, handbrake strength, per wheel tire pressure, toe & camber adjust-ability & turbo boost tuning & I’d like some more upgrade options too, but everything within the tuning menu we have now works as intended & isn’t too far from what it’s supposed to do in real life, it’s just that Forza tends to label things a bit funky like the Rebound & Bump settings. Yes the physics are vanilla, that’s pretty much what I said & I agree, but what Forza does model it models pretty well. Especially when you start diving into the small details in stuff like the developer files. For example I never knew that stock cars in Forza had negative downforce (or generated lift) until I dived into the developer files.
I agree about drafting, it’s not 100% broke per say, it does exist & works relatively correctly (though could use some refining) for the driver’s car, only the car in front also gets the drafting effect too, almost like your bump drafting even though you’re not. So you’re gaining speed but not gaining distance on the car ahead. The trigger points are a bit weird though I’ll admit.
Opponent distance measured in time also has nothing to do with this debate, though I get why you mentioned it.
I agree the physics have always been very good. But for way too long they were basicly hidden from Simracers, due to not properly supporting wheels.
With the big FFB rework, it feels like they already made a major step towards sim.
They had stuff like simulation steering forever, but it took a really long time until it really made sense.
I think this cost them a lot of reputation with the sim racing community.
As for the general topic, I don`t think they should ditch the simcade approach, but expand on the sim side.
I read “simcade” as trying to be both, accessible for casual players offering a proper game, and also please sim fans.
Forza has the potential to be the have-it-all package of content and quality, no reason to step down and start copying dry sims.
Imo the important thing is giving players options. We should be able to e.g. tailor the career mode to be as arcadey as it is now, or to run qualifyings etc…
We should be able to pick between the trademark Forza coloring, or a more realistic color filter.
Not to make a list here, but there are tons of features that can be added as options to tailor the gameplay between arcade and sim.
Just to add one crucial thing … without proper AI there is no point in even trying to be more sim.
I do like the rewind feature, but as long as it is mandatory to make up for the lack of AI there is no sim racing to be had.
To make it a proper simulator would mean slowing down the rate of acceleration, thereby foregoing the fun that is Forza, and they will also have to move away from the reward earning and reward dispensing aspects of the game, which is what the studio panders to. But then that’s what Forza is all about: Force and Power play!
Well I have to say, if it change to sumulator we are losing the best simcade racer, and I won’t…
Turning FM into a true sim would absolutely destroy the playerbase and the franchise. While I would kind of like it, the majority of players are casuals and they would not buy the game and it would eventually die. Creating penalty systems and ghosting backmarkers is as far as I want to see this go. If you segregate the community with things like SR ratings, it will be as dead as PC2 and GT. By comparison, their playerbases are minut compared to forza. Far less people=less dev money=bye bye motorsport. If they just bring back the clubs, shared garages and fine tune this penalty system, that will be more than enough to make forza near perfect. Essentially a 2020 fm4 with penalties and better graphics. It would be the king of racing games for eternity, except for old school PGR 
I really fear that Forza Motorsport loose more and more the DNA that make FM3 and FM4 the best games at their time.
FM5 was a complete desaster, because the series must be a systemseller. Even the decision to cut single player features and outsourcing them to Xbox live was not helpful.
But since FM5 it’s was only a marketing phrase to call the game a real simulator. The game is since them a game who have nothing to do with motorsports.
Only to drive the cars on tracks makes a game not a motorsport game. For me project cars have the features that a motorsport game needs.
But unfortunately PC2 was a technical desaster on x1.
To make a real sim Turn 10 must concentrate on 50 cars like IMsa Championship and make a real sim with ESports and if it works the can expand and add other cars like iracing does.
But a real sim with 700 cars is impossible. Because you need different tyres compounds and fuel consumption, pit strategy and so on.
Such a project can’t be profitable and only be a showcase what the next gen can do. And maybe then other studios bring their sims to console.
FM and FH could benefit from such a project.
But I fear that Turn 10 have the same problem like BioWare. Ok BioWare have a lot of changes on managment level but their lose their DNA too.
To me turn 10 sit in the same boat. I expect from such a studio that they know what they want and not know which game they will make 1 or 2 years before release.
Make FM as a simcade and make a more motorsport based games with not so many cars. British GT. BTCC. DTM, Super GT their enough series.
But for that it needs courage if a part of turn 10 wants make a real.sim. is t10 in the position to make such a game and get the OK from spencer.
I agree with the OP. Forza Motorsport has become a joke, from the drift-happy physics to the dark and gritty, unrealistic lighting to the absolute lack of enjoyment in multiplayer. We could go on and on and on. It cannot be taken seriously anymore. The Forza Horizon series is now leaps and bounds better, looks better and has a much better style. GT Sport is running circles around Forza in regards of realism, lighting (just look at it!), multiplayer, penalty system, progression system, tracks, race cars, almost everything. Almost every serious racing game captures the essence of “motorsport” much better than Forza. Project CARS 2, F1, Assetto Corsa… It’s not just about the physics. It’s about the feeling of being on a real track, sitting in a real race car. Forza has absolutely none of this now. Just flashy menus, tons of worthless cars poured together, generic handling and sound, and trendy, cringey marketing deals and silly car packs for virtual Ken Blocks to drift around in. It’s become a mess that wants to appeal to everyone yet can’t really fulfill anyone’s taste, and it’s now years behind games like GT Sport or Project CARS regarding racing experience, sessions, options, penalty systems, not to mention dynamic weather and night-day cycles (which FM7 doesn’t have really, it’s just a glorified set piece).
The desperate pursue of the casual and “all” players has lead to this loss of direction that doesn’t really appeal to anyone anymore. I’ve been an avid Forza Motorsport player ever since 2005 but I’ve been disappointed. FM6 looked like it could start again in the right direction with more emphasis on serious racing but FM7 became this cringe-fest. Even though it has only the fraction of this content, I’d take the gameplay of GT Sport over this any day. Turn 10’s luck in my opinion is that it’s not released on Xbox.